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Bicycle only infrastructure

Old 11-17-22, 11:24 AM
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adlai
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Bicycle only infrastructure

This thread is about bicycle only infrastructure. It seems that a big problem for bicycles is that we are always sharing space with cars and so are always second class citizens. Any good bicycle only infrastructure?
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Old 11-17-22, 11:29 AM
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...I'm not sure the Mechanics forum is the best place for your thread. Maybe someone will move it to a more appropriate forum.
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Old 11-17-22, 11:42 AM
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not a mechanics question and becomes quite a bit of "religious war" this belongs in the advocacy section
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Old 11-17-22, 12:22 PM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/search.ph...6&pp=50&page=2
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Old 11-17-22, 05:08 PM
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A bicycle infrastructure is a car infrastructure.

A car infrastructure is a bicycle infrastructure.


Crazy as it may sound - it is quite a symboitic relationship when it comes to infrastructure.

Sounds like you don't know your history. Do some historical research and you'll understand why I posted the two lines above.

=8-|
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Old 11-17-22, 05:33 PM
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There's advocacy forum for arguments like this, and this forum should be reserved for repair and technical issues.
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Old 11-17-22, 06:38 PM
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Thread moved from Mechanics
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Old 11-17-22, 11:46 PM
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There is a wide range of treatments used and new ones appear from time to time. They are very sensitive to context: what works good in one situation can be disastrous in another. It is not a one-size-fits-all problem.

Your area may have an inventory of what they use. I’ll link to Houston’s just because I have it at hand; hundreds of others available:

https://l6ob14.a2cdn1.secureserver.n...pter_Feb17.pdf

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
… and becomes quite a bit of "religious war" this belongs in the advocacy section
I will now ignore this thread….
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Old 11-20-22, 12:52 PM
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The safest country in the world for bicycling (and walking) is The Netherlands. Not surprisingly many others have begun using the Dutch CROW design principles. Some good sampling of their infrastructure here: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com

The U.S. has the most dangerous road system of all developed countries - for all users. Vs the average of the safest 10 developed countries per mile; Someone in a car is 4.7x as likely to be killed, riding a bicycle 9.4x and walking an estimated 22x. While most developed countries saw reductions in deaths and serious injury rates during the pandemic, the U.S. saw increases.
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Old 11-20-22, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
The safest country in the world for bicycling (and walking) is The Netherlands. Not surprisingly many others have begun using the Dutch CROW design principles. Some good sampling of their infrastructure here: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com

The U.S. has the most dangerous road system of all developed countries - for all users. Vs the average of the safest 10 developed countries per mile; Someone in a car is 4.7x as likely to be killed, riding a bicycle 9.4x and walking an estimated 22x. While most developed countries saw reductions in deaths and serious injury rates during the pandemic, the U.S. saw increases.
I have to agree when I was riding a bike in the Netherlands back in 2008 it was indeed very safe. The towns nearby where I live St Germain en Laye, Chatou, Versailles, Poissy, Vernouillet and more nearby towns have deployed some years bike tracks. Paris also but I never felt safe riding a bike in Paris because of heavy traffic, pollution and bike theft
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Old 11-21-22, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by adlai View Post
It seems that a big problem for bicycles is that we are always sharing space with cars and so are always second class citizens.
You need to get out more. Open to motor vehicles, but no motor vehicles.




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Old 11-21-22, 01:28 PM
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^^^^^ Um, nice open road, but are there stores and jobs somewhere to commute to on this road? Or is is merely for pleasure cruise?
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Old 11-22-22, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
^^^^^ Um, nice open road, but are there stores and jobs somewhere to commute to on this road? Or is is merely for pleasure cruise?
1st and 3rd photos, yes. They are alternatives to nearby highways that pass through towns.

The first bypasses U.S. 93 between Hamilton and Darby, MT in the Bitterroot Valley, which has seen a lot of development over the years. Not pictured is the path that takes you more than 40 miles between Missoula and Hamilton, so you no longer have to ride very U.S. 93. I have some photos on my home computer. Nice views of the Bitterroots. There are some towns along the way. Would make a terrific commute, just not during winter months.

The 3rd avoids 8 miles of shoulderless state highway that has some truck traffic that is also part of ACA's Trans Am route. I explored it during a two-week tour back in 2016. Sent ACA a link to a RWGPS map I created. The link was added to the map addendum for people to try and comment. Don't know if it ever got incorporated into the new map version.

But the OP's sentence I quoted is not limited to places where there are stores and jobs.
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Old 11-22-22, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
A bicycle infrastructure is a car infrastructure.
That's why we find so many cars and trucks parked in bike lanes.

Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
A car infrastructure is a bicycle infrastructure.
A lot of drivers disagree. They want bicycles off the road.
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Old 11-22-22, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
1st and 3rd photos, yes. They are alternatives to nearby highways that pass through towns.

The first bypasses U.S. 93 between Hamilton and Darby, MT in the Bitterroot Valley, which has seen a lot of development over the years. Not pictured is the path that takes you more than 40 miles between Missoula and Hamilton, so you no longer have to ride very U.S. 93. I have some photos on my home computer. Nice views of the Bitterroots. There are some towns along the way. Would make a terrific commute, just not during winter months.

The 3rd avoids 8 miles of shoulderless state highway that has some truck traffic that is also part of ACA's Trans Am route. I explored it during a two-week tour back in 2016. Sent ACA a link to a RWGPS map I created. The link was added to the map addendum for people to try and comment. Don't know if it ever got incorporated into the new map version.

But the OP's sentence I quoted is not limited to places where there are stores and jobs.
I'll be honest with you... I would much prefer the open roads you showed to fighting mindless motorists just to get to some store. I stopped bike commuting about 7 years ago, and since WFH came along I see little need for it... so all my cycling is pleasure riding these days... my favorite kind of ride is single track or fire road, with no mechanized traffic around.

I was just playing devils advocate there.

On the other hand, I have seen bike heaven... it was in Oulu Finland where a fantastic bike path network exists that can get you to anywhere a car can go, while largely avoiding all automobile traffic. Almost totally separate network with underpasses, bridges and all dedicated to cycling... it is even plowed in winter. (except for the beach areas... "no one goes there in winter...")

But yeah, here in the Automotive States United... (backwards USA) I prefer something similar to what you show. 35+ years of daily bike commuting on roads full of mindless motorists is enough for me.

Even during those commuting years my favorite rides were the weekends when I would go off on very lonely country roads for a long 70 mile jaunt. So few cars, such great scenery!

Last edited by genec; 11-22-22 at 08:32 AM. Reason: were vice where
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Old 11-22-22, 08:57 AM
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Locally, all I know of are some old railbeds turned into biking/hiking trails, no motor vehicles allowed. It's nice to ride on them without worrying about getting run over.
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Old 11-22-22, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I'll be honest with you... I would much prefer the open roads you showed to fighting mindless motorists just to get to some store. I stopped bike commuting about 7 years ago, and since WFH came along I see little need for it... so all my cycling is pleasure riding these days... my favorite kind of ride is single track or fire road, with no mechanized traffic around.

I was just playing devils advocate there.

On the other hand, I have seen bike heaven... it was in Oulu Finland where a fantastic bike path network exists that can get you to anywhere a car can go, while largely avoiding all automobile traffic. Almost totally separate network with underpasses, bridges and all dedicated to cycling... it is even plowed in winter. (except for the beach areas... "no one goes there in winter...")

But yeah, here in the Automotive States United... (backwards USA) I prefer something similar to what you show. 35+ years of daily bike commuting on roads full of mindless motorists is enough for me.

Even during those commuting years my favorite rides were the weekends when I would go off on very lonely country roads for a long 70 mile jaunt. So few cars, such great scenery!
That second road has its traffic dangers:

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Old 11-22-22, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
That second road has its traffic dangers:

I encountered a rattlesnake on one of my favorite "trails."

So yeah, you have to be somewhat vigilant... just as you have to watch for big rocks and deep holes... but you are not likely to encounter humans driving big machines with the "I own the road" attitude... an angry bull perhaps...
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Old 11-22-22, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Locally, all I know of are some old railbeds turned into biking/hiking trails, no motor vehicles allowed. It's nice to ride on them without worrying about getting run over.
That fourth photo I posted is from a form Northern Pacific rail line that takes one from Montana over Lookout Pass then down to Mullan, ID. The land is owned by the U.S. Forest Service. The road is open to motor vehicles. The only other way up there is I-90 for about 5 miles. (The trail is nearly twice as long.) Both times I rode it east to west I took I-90 down from Lookout Pass to Mullan. The 7 miles went by in a flash. There is actually a pullout where you can stop and view a large remediation site down below. The area was polluted in the wake of the massive silver mining operations that once took place there. (Mining started with gold, but it was discovered that there was far more silver to be had.) When you get to Mullan you pick up the eastern end of the Trail of the Coeur d' Allenes. There are warning signs on some land along side of the trail warming you not to mess with the soil or water because of the pollution.

And then there is this on Wiki about Wallace:

"A mining community with a "work hard, play hard" attitude, Wallace became well known for a permissive approach toward drinking, gambling and decriminalized prostitution.[26] From 1884 to 1991, illegal yet regulated brothel-based sex work openly flourished because locals believed that sex work prevented **** and bolstered the economy, so long as it was regulated and confined to the northeastern part of town.[27] Throughout the rest of the country, progressive era politics drove red-light districts underground, but madams in Wallace enjoyed unprecedented status as influential businesswomen, community leaders, and philanthropists.[27] Between 1940 and 1960, for example, an average of 30 to 60 women came into town to work in one of the five well-established brothels."

These days, one of the most popular attractions, aside from the trail, is a brewery/restaurant/campground.
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Old 11-22-22, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I encountered a rattlesnake on one of my favorite "trails."
It happens.

Young rattler on the Lehigh Gorge Trail north of Jim Thorpe, PA. They come out to sun themselves during certain times of year.




On

Along the final southern segment of the Mickelson Trail in SD there are signs warning users to keep out of the trailside grass due to rattlesnake danger.
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Old 11-22-22, 12:56 PM
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During a tour last year I camped at a state park in Copake, NY. The place is along the Harlem Valley Trail. A guy I know rode it with his wife the day before and saw this bugger. How lucky. Haven’t seen a bear since 2019.


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Old 11-22-22, 01:11 PM
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Yup, I recall hearing of moose attacks, and even a mountain lion attack... but these ultimately are quite rare... unlike the "zoo" on the daily road commute.

I used to open ocean swim... about a half mile a day, up to 2 miles on weekends... in water known to have sharks. Cycling on the road with cell phone addled drivers was much more dangerous.

I live in an area with waters a bit too cold to enjoy that swim now.
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