Racks......why arent there more.....and better....
01-20-23, 12:52 AM
#51
Along for the ride
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: PNW US
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times
in
68 Posts
Sure, that makes perfect sense. I guess rather than racks specifically, I mean bike parking/storage of various sorts. Options are great.
01-20-23, 11:58 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,593
Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times
in
557 Posts
The OP posted
To be a requirement for all businesses, it would have to be an ordinance would it not? At the minimum it would seem that would be zoning at the local level. An ordinance requiring a business that is not going to get patrons using a bike is overreach and abuse of government IMHO….
To be a requirement for all businesses, it would have to be an ordinance would it not? At the minimum it would seem that would be zoning at the local level. An ordinance requiring a business that is not going to get patrons using a bike is overreach and abuse of government IMHO….
almost all municipalities in america require automobile parking in ridiculously high amounts for most land uses. requiring a tiny amount of proportionally cheap bike parking is not an overreach, and that’s why many, many municipalities are beginning to require it. it’s been required of all new developments in most of the bay area for a decade or two.
__________________
01-21-23, 04:33 AM
#53
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 3,668
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 491 Times
in
263 Posts
Likes For 1989Pre:
01-21-23, 04:48 AM
#54
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 3,668
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 491 Times
in
263 Posts
Because of the threat-of-theft referenced in other replies, I think it is important that not only solid racks be installed firmly in the ground, but that they be placed in a position where the rack can be seen from the front window of the store and that a closed-circuit tv camera be used at the bicycle rack location.
One other thing: Some have cited that any potential rack installation should reflect current bicycle usage. This is in-correct. The installation of the rack is a requirement to promote usage.
One other thing: Some have cited that any potential rack installation should reflect current bicycle usage. This is in-correct. The installation of the rack is a requirement to promote usage.
Last edited by 1989Pre; 01-21-23 at 10:00 AM.
01-21-23, 09:54 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,667
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3841 Post(s)
Liked 1,078 Times
in
758 Posts
Are they just ignorant? Clearly there has to be more to it then that. Install costs? Ive heard ppl saying most cant because of city ordinance or there are "fees" to having bike racks......... or that perhaps it blocks the sidewalk for disabled folks. All seem like excuses with pretty easy fixes.
01-21-23, 10:28 AM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,593
Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times
in
557 Posts
based on the presence of tens of even hundreds of thousands of bike racks in cities around the world, often provided at insignificant incremental cost as part of adjacent new development or regular repair and reconstruction of sidewalks, street trees, curbs etc.
most of the western world have street rights of way in the 60 to 120 foot range, of which around 10 on each side is given to sidewalks. a very typical layout for this is a 5 foot completely clear level path adjacent to the building, and then a strip between that path and the curb for poles, trees, bus stops, benches, and yes, bike racks. they do not impede the accessible path, are incredibly cheap, don’t require removal of street trees (which generally have to be spaced around 15-25’ apart for other reasons), etc.
the only place where bike racks are difficult to provide is where the pedestrian or sidewalk zone in the right of way is significantly narrower than this, i.e. nearly the entire right of way is given to cars. this is bad planning, dangerous for anyone but drivers, and frankly not that common any more.
most of the western world have street rights of way in the 60 to 120 foot range, of which around 10 on each side is given to sidewalks. a very typical layout for this is a 5 foot completely clear level path adjacent to the building, and then a strip between that path and the curb for poles, trees, bus stops, benches, and yes, bike racks. they do not impede the accessible path, are incredibly cheap, don’t require removal of street trees (which generally have to be spaced around 15-25’ apart for other reasons), etc.
the only place where bike racks are difficult to provide is where the pedestrian or sidewalk zone in the right of way is significantly narrower than this, i.e. nearly the entire right of way is given to cars. this is bad planning, dangerous for anyone but drivers, and frankly not that common any more.
__________________
01-21-23, 12:25 PM
#58
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,528 Times
in
3,156 Posts
Why isnt it required to have a "good" bike rack out in front of all businesses? I would think it only makes sense with the wave of E-bike folks and thats only going to get worse.
If they want ppl to be green its seems like a pretty good first step. I ride 1000+ miles a summer but refuse to stop anywhere or grocery shop despite there being a few grocery stores within a half mile. No racks. Street signs work fine when available but you would think that more places would try to cater to folks 1. trying to be healthy....2. trying to be green, etc etc. I would think it would have to be mandatory.
Are they just ignorant? Clearly there has to be more to it then that. Install costs? Ive heard ppl saying most cant because of city ordinance or there are "fees" to having bike racks......... or that perhaps it blocks the sidewalk for disabled folks. All seem like excuses with pretty easy fixes. Most folks will say.....you should suggest that to the business owner etc etc. That goes about as far as pissing in the wind in my experience. Its just wasted sounds coming out of your face.
Just curious i guess. Even in the most bike friendly cities it seems to be not great. Does anyone know what it takes to get more accessible racks at places so people can lock up properly? Its disappointing. Probably a lot of opinions on it i would imagine.
If they want ppl to be green its seems like a pretty good first step. I ride 1000+ miles a summer but refuse to stop anywhere or grocery shop despite there being a few grocery stores within a half mile. No racks. Street signs work fine when available but you would think that more places would try to cater to folks 1. trying to be healthy....2. trying to be green, etc etc. I would think it would have to be mandatory.
Are they just ignorant? Clearly there has to be more to it then that. Install costs? Ive heard ppl saying most cant because of city ordinance or there are "fees" to having bike racks......... or that perhaps it blocks the sidewalk for disabled folks. All seem like excuses with pretty easy fixes. Most folks will say.....you should suggest that to the business owner etc etc. That goes about as far as pissing in the wind in my experience. Its just wasted sounds coming out of your face.
Just curious i guess. Even in the most bike friendly cities it seems to be not great. Does anyone know what it takes to get more accessible racks at places so people can lock up properly? Its disappointing. Probably a lot of opinions on it i would imagine.
Some cities do this... Downtown Austin Texas for instance has a rack on each block. Portland Oregon does something similar. So it need not be the responsibility of the shop owner to provide "public parking."
Now in suburbs etc, where the codes require businesses to provide parking lots for X number of cars, they should also codify parking for cyclists.
01-21-23, 12:47 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,593
Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times
in
557 Posts
permitting, of course, varies by city but there is no incremental cost or “fees” to do this as part of other sidewalk work. doing it by itself doesn’t have any meaningful fees in any city i’ve ever worked.
in many cities you can even call a public works number, request a location, and they’ll come out, check it for conflicts, and install one if feasible. some holes, epoxy, and a u shaped piece of steel with some mounting plates that they have hundreds of in a warehouse.
Last edited by mschwett; 01-21-23 at 01:02 PM.
Likes For mschwett:
01-21-23, 01:28 PM
#60
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 2,803
Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 1,120 Times
in
668 Posts
About the last place I would want to park my bike is at a shopping cart return area. The way so many shoppers lazily shove the cart the last few feet, if not farther, just about assures the bike is going to be scraped up. I am not one to be overly concerned about some scratches on my bikes, but I am not going to disregard that it is more likely to happen in a specific area, such as a cart return. I think it is in Clarksville, Tennessee, I saw stores where a shopper has to feed money to get the cart released, then reimbursed when the cart is returned properly to the return area. I cannot remember specifics, I never used one.
01-21-23, 04:50 PM
#61
Senior Member
We live in a pro automobile and anti cyclist and pedestrian country and our governments subsidize motorists without a second thought. More than half the space in an American city is devoted to use by motorists. There is a huge loss of revenue for the cities with this wasted space.
Vastly different in China and in Europe where the government planners are free to do what is best for the community wilthout having to worry about losing their jobs. A good example is Ansterdamn where the city built and underground garage that holds up to 7,000 bicycles. The city wanted to faciliate multi-mode travel where one could bike to a light rail station and then take the train into the city and then hop back on their bike for the "last mile".
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orage-headache
In the USA whatever generates the most profit for a few at the top is what is supported by the government and whatever happens to everyone else is not considered to be important. It has always been this way and I do not see it changing for the better. I have long believed that when I encounter an obstacle the best response was to try to find a way around it and not waste time and energy getting angry.
Vastly different in China and in Europe where the government planners are free to do what is best for the community wilthout having to worry about losing their jobs. A good example is Ansterdamn where the city built and underground garage that holds up to 7,000 bicycles. The city wanted to faciliate multi-mode travel where one could bike to a light rail station and then take the train into the city and then hop back on their bike for the "last mile".
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orage-headache
In the USA whatever generates the most profit for a few at the top is what is supported by the government and whatever happens to everyone else is not considered to be important. It has always been this way and I do not see it changing for the better. I have long believed that when I encounter an obstacle the best response was to try to find a way around it and not waste time and energy getting angry.
Likes For Calsun:
01-21-23, 06:14 PM
#62
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,616
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,280 Times
in
870 Posts
Because of the threat-of-theft referenced in other replies, I think it is important that not only solid racks be installed firmly in the ground, but that they be placed in a position where the rack can be seen from the front window of the store and that a closed-circuit tv camera be used at the bicycle rack location..
01-21-23, 06:22 PM
#63
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,616
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,280 Times
in
870 Posts
About the last place I would want to park my bike is at a shopping cart return area. The way so many shoppers lazily shove the cart the last few feet, if not farther, just about assures the bike is going to be scraped up. I am not one to be overly concerned about some scratches on my bikes, but I am not going to disregard that it is more likely to happen in a specific area, such as a cart return. I think it is in Clarksville, Tennessee, I saw stores where a shopper has to feed money to get the cart released, then reimbursed when the cart is returned properly to the return area. I cannot remember specifics, I never used one.
01-21-23, 07:49 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 810
Bikes: 2017 Co-op ADV 1.1; ~1991 Novara Arriba; 1990 Fuji Palisade; mid-90's Moots Tandem; 1985 Performance Superbe
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked 504 Times
in
295 Posts
My nearest Aldi put a lot of racks in an inconvenient and isolated location:
Bike rack theater.
01-22-23, 02:56 AM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,536
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times
in
390 Posts
Doesn't matter. Leaving a bike on a rack overnight, or even well into the night, is a very bad idea. No amount of lighting makes up for the fact that as the evening gets on the presence of witnesses drops.
Likes For Leisesturm:
01-22-23, 03:08 AM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,536
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times
in
390 Posts
The OP posted
To be a requirement for all businesses, it would have to be an ordinance would it not? At the minimum it would seem that would be zoning at the local level. An ordinance requiring a business that is not going to get patrons using a bike is overreach and abuse of government IMHO. I live in a very bike friendly community and I appreciate the efforts my local government has made to provide clearly marked bike lanes and signage. But if they even discussed an ordinance that it is to be "required to have a good bike rack out in front of all businesses" I would think they need their heads examined. I don't know how the hell you got we are doomed to anarchy out of my opinion.
To be a requirement for all businesses, it would have to be an ordinance would it not? At the minimum it would seem that would be zoning at the local level. An ordinance requiring a business that is not going to get patrons using a bike is overreach and abuse of government IMHO. I live in a very bike friendly community and I appreciate the efforts my local government has made to provide clearly marked bike lanes and signage. But if they even discussed an ordinance that it is to be "required to have a good bike rack out in front of all businesses" I would think they need their heads examined. I don't know how the hell you got we are doomed to anarchy out of my opinion.
Likes For Leisesturm:
01-22-23, 08:56 AM
#69
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,616
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,280 Times
in
870 Posts
Not just doomed, something even worse. I need a much stronger word. The American distaste for guvmint has indeed led to a culture of near anarchy and its killing us all. Some slowly, some quickly but we are all dying faster than our genetic predispositions would normally determine. The inconsistent deployment of bike racks and other bike infrastructure has a definite effect on bike utilization. Negatively.
Talk about theater, some bicycling "advocates " and "enthusiasts" sense of entitlement and/or outrage is never satisfied.
01-22-23, 06:22 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,536
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times
in
390 Posts
Sometimes you can be rather inscrutable. I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. If being pissed (outraged) that car culture is going to take 20 years off all our lives makes me 'entitled' then ... "guilty as charged". I can't really blame people for not wanting to invest in bicycle infrastructure because no one really bikes except for fitness and/or recreation. That's because CARS, TRUCKS and SUV's are the defacto transportation choices. Mass Transit and Bikes are for LOSERS. And we all know we should change that mindset and quickly but no one wants to be forced to. They want to get around to it when they get around to it. Which will be never.
01-23-23, 02:58 PM
#71
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,616
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,280 Times
in
870 Posts
I have been locking to the outside of cart corrals regularly for many years and have never sustained any damage. (Of course, it could happen on my next trip. I’ve never had my bike stolen, either.)
My nearest Aldi put a lot of racks in an inconvenient and isolated location
My nearest Aldi put a lot of racks in an inconvenient and isolated location
I could lock it to the rails around the shopping carts but it is likely to interfere with shoppers as the sidewalk is not that wide at that location.Luckily I am not paranoid about bicycle thieves lurking in every nearby shadow waiting to pounce at the sight of any bicycle not locked and bolted to the ground.
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
01-23-23, 03:36 PM
#72
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 7,387
Bikes: Old school lightweights
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3179 Post(s)
Liked 4,759 Times
in
2,476 Posts
Likes For SurferRosa:
01-23-23, 10:31 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 810
Bikes: 2017 Co-op ADV 1.1; ~1991 Novara Arriba; 1990 Fuji Palisade; mid-90's Moots Tandem; 1985 Performance Superbe
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked 504 Times
in
295 Posts
Ok. Internet theft poll. Which gets stolen first when parked at the same grocery store in, say, Wichita KS to pick a neutral point: My grocery-getter or ILTB’s?
My grocery-getter.
(Most likely they are both untouched after 2 weeks…)
Last edited by flangehead; 01-23-23 at 10:37 PM.
Likes For flangehead:
