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Racks......why arent there more.....and better....

Old 01-21-23, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M
I don't know how the hell you got we are doomed to anarchy out of my opinion.
Because the same people who don't see-fit to provide a bike rack in front of their business are the same ones who oppose other green, community improvements.
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Old 01-21-23, 04:48 AM
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Because of the threat-of-theft referenced in other replies, I think it is important that not only solid racks be installed firmly in the ground, but that they be placed in a position where the rack can be seen from the front window of the store and that a closed-circuit tv camera be used at the bicycle rack location.
One other thing: Some have cited that any potential rack installation should reflect current bicycle usage. This is in-correct. The installation of the rack is a requirement to promote usage.
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Old 01-21-23, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by scale
Are they just ignorant? Clearly there has to be more to it then that. Install costs? Ive heard ppl saying most cant because of city ordinance or there are "fees" to having bike racks......... or that perhaps it blocks the sidewalk for disabled folks. All seem like excuses with pretty easy fixes.
Based on what?
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Old 01-21-23, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
Based on what?
based on the presence of tens of even hundreds of thousands of bike racks in cities around the world, often provided at insignificant incremental cost as part of adjacent new development or regular repair and reconstruction of sidewalks, street trees, curbs etc.

most of the western world have street rights of way in the 60 to 120 foot range, of which around 10 on each side is given to sidewalks. a very typical layout for this is a 5 foot completely clear level path adjacent to the building, and then a strip between that path and the curb for poles, trees, bus stops, benches, and yes, bike racks. they do not impede the accessible path, are incredibly cheap, don’t require removal of street trees (which generally have to be spaced around 15-25’ apart for other reasons), etc.

the only place where bike racks are difficult to provide is where the pedestrian or sidewalk zone in the right of way is significantly narrower than this, i.e. nearly the entire right of way is given to cars. this is bad planning, dangerous for anyone but drivers, and frankly not that common any more.
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Old 01-21-23, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
... bike racks. ..., are incredibly cheap,
What's "incredibly cheap" mean?

It would be more interesting to hear from people who actually have tried to do it and know.

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-21-23 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 01-21-23, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by scale
Why isnt it required to have a "good" bike rack out in front of all businesses? I would think it only makes sense with the wave of E-bike folks and thats only going to get worse.

If they want ppl to be green its seems like a pretty good first step. I ride 1000+ miles a summer but refuse to stop anywhere or grocery shop despite there being a few grocery stores within a half mile. No racks. Street signs work fine when available but you would think that more places would try to cater to folks 1. trying to be healthy....2. trying to be green, etc etc. I would think it would have to be mandatory.

Are they just ignorant? Clearly there has to be more to it then that. Install costs? Ive heard ppl saying most cant because of city ordinance or there are "fees" to having bike racks......... or that perhaps it blocks the sidewalk for disabled folks. All seem like excuses with pretty easy fixes. Most folks will say.....you should suggest that to the business owner etc etc. That goes about as far as pissing in the wind in my experience. Its just wasted sounds coming out of your face.

Just curious i guess. Even in the most bike friendly cities it seems to be not great. Does anyone know what it takes to get more accessible racks at places so people can lock up properly? Its disappointing. Probably a lot of opinions on it i would imagine.
Well, just as cities provide curb side parking for automobiles, the cities should also provide bike rack space... for the same reasons, to encourage commerce and provide for clean ROW for pedestrians.

Some cities do this... Downtown Austin Texas for instance has a rack on each block. Portland Oregon does something similar. So it need not be the responsibility of the shop owner to provide "public parking."

Now in suburbs etc, where the codes require businesses to provide parking lots for X number of cars, they should also codify parking for cyclists.
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Old 01-21-23, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
What's "incredibly cheap" mean?

It would be more interesting to hear from people who actually have tried to do it and know.
i’m a licensed architect in multiple states and have designed and overseen the construction of millions of square feet of buildings with hundreds if not thousands of bike racks both in the public way and on private property. their cost is a rounding error, even for small renovation or tenant improvement projects. retail cost of the standard type are in the range of $100/bike. install is an hour or two of a laborer’s time at best per rack.

permitting, of course, varies by city but there is no incremental cost or “fees” to do this as part of other sidewalk work. doing it by itself doesn’t have any meaningful fees in any city i’ve ever worked.

in many cities you can even call a public works number, request a location, and they’ll come out, check it for conflicts, and install one if feasible. some holes, epoxy, and a u shaped piece of steel with some mounting plates that they have hundreds of in a warehouse.

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Old 01-21-23, 01:28 PM
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About the last place I would want to park my bike is at a shopping cart return area. The way so many shoppers lazily shove the cart the last few feet, if not farther, just about assures the bike is going to be scraped up. I am not one to be overly concerned about some scratches on my bikes, but I am not going to disregard that it is more likely to happen in a specific area, such as a cart return. I think it is in Clarksville, Tennessee, I saw stores where a shopper has to feed money to get the cart released, then reimbursed when the cart is returned properly to the return area. I cannot remember specifics, I never used one.
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Old 01-21-23, 04:50 PM
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We live in a pro automobile and anti cyclist and pedestrian country and our governments subsidize motorists without a second thought. More than half the space in an American city is devoted to use by motorists. There is a huge loss of revenue for the cities with this wasted space.

Vastly different in China and in Europe where the government planners are free to do what is best for the community wilthout having to worry about losing their jobs. A good example is Ansterdamn where the city built and underground garage that holds up to 7,000 bicycles. The city wanted to faciliate multi-mode travel where one could bike to a light rail station and then take the train into the city and then hop back on their bike for the "last mile".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orage-headache

In the USA whatever generates the most profit for a few at the top is what is supported by the government and whatever happens to everyone else is not considered to be important. It has always been this way and I do not see it changing for the better. I have long believed that when I encounter an obstacle the best response was to try to find a way around it and not waste time and energy getting angry.
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Old 01-21-23, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Because of the threat-of-theft referenced in other replies, I think it is important that not only solid racks be installed firmly in the ground, but that they be placed in a position where the rack can be seen from the front window of the store and that a closed-circuit tv camera be used at the bicycle rack location..
What, no requirement for an armed guard?
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Old 01-21-23, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1
About the last place I would want to park my bike is at a shopping cart return area. The way so many shoppers lazily shove the cart the last few feet, if not farther, just about assures the bike is going to be scraped up. I am not one to be overly concerned about some scratches on my bikes, but I am not going to disregard that it is more likely to happen in a specific area, such as a cart return. I think it is in Clarksville, Tennessee, I saw stores where a shopper has to feed money to get the cart released, then reimbursed when the cart is returned properly to the return area. I cannot remember specifics, I never used one.
Aldi grocery stores use the quarter deposit shopping carts.
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Old 01-21-23, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1
…The way so many shoppers lazily shove the cart the last few feet, if not farther, just about assures the bike is going to be scraped up. …
I have been locking to the outside of cart corrals regularly for many years and have never sustained any damage. (Of course, it could happen on my next trip. I’ve never had my bike stolen, either.)

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Aldi grocery stores use the quarter deposit shopping carts.
My nearest Aldi put a lot of racks in an inconvenient and isolated location:



Bike rack theater.
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Old 01-22-23, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flangehead
Bike rack theater.
True, unfortunately. At least there appears to be some lighting so it's not completely dark at night.
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Old 01-22-23, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by retswerb
True, unfortunately. At least there appears to be some lighting so it's not completely dark at night.
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Doesn't matter. Leaving a bike on a rack overnight, or even well into the night, is a very bad idea. No amount of lighting makes up for the fact that as the evening gets on the presence of witnesses drops.
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Old 01-22-23, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M
The OP posted
To be a requirement for all businesses, it would have to be an ordinance would it not? At the minimum it would seem that would be zoning at the local level. An ordinance requiring a business that is not going to get patrons using a bike is overreach and abuse of government IMHO. I live in a very bike friendly community and I appreciate the efforts my local government has made to provide clearly marked bike lanes and signage. But if they even discussed an ordinance that it is to be "required to have a good bike rack out in front of all businesses" I would think they need their heads examined. I don't know how the hell you got we are doomed to anarchy out of my opinion.
Not just doomed, something even worse. I need a much stronger word. The American distaste for guvmint has indeed led to a culture of near anarchy and its killing us all. Some slowly, some quickly but we are all dying faster than our genetic predispositions would normally determine. The inconsistent deployment of bike racks and other bike infrastructure has a definite effect on bike utilization. Negatively.
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Old 01-22-23, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Aldi grocery stores use the quarter deposit shopping carts.
The first time I shopped at an Aldi store I thought, "A quarter for a shopping cart---their prices really are low!"
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Old 01-22-23, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Not just doomed, something even worse. I need a much stronger word. The American distaste for guvmint has indeed led to a culture of near anarchy and its killing us all. Some slowly, some quickly but we are all dying faster than our genetic predispositions would normally determine. The inconsistent deployment of bike racks and other bike infrastructure has a definite effect on bike utilization. Negatively.
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Doesn't matter. Leaving a bike on a rack overnight, or even well into the night, is a very bad idea. No amount of lighting makes up for the fact that as the evening gets on the presence of witnesses drops.
Presumably bicycle racks installed for customer convenience by Aldi and other businesses are not intended for overnight parking.

Talk about theater, some bicycling "advocates " and "enthusiasts" sense of entitlement and/or outrage is never satisfied.
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Old 01-22-23, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Talk about theater, some bicycling "advocates " and "enthusiasts" sense of entitlement and/or outrage is never satisfied.
Sometimes you can be rather inscrutable. I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. If being pissed (outraged) that car culture is going to take 20 years off all our lives makes me 'entitled' then ... "guilty as charged". I can't really blame people for not wanting to invest in bicycle infrastructure because no one really bikes except for fitness and/or recreation. That's because CARS, TRUCKS and SUV's are the defacto transportation choices. Mass Transit and Bikes are for LOSERS. And we all know we should change that mindset and quickly but no one wants to be forced to. They want to get around to it when they get around to it. Which will be never.
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Old 01-23-23, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by flangehead
I have been locking to the outside of cart corrals regularly for many years and have never sustained any damage. (Of course, it could happen on my next trip. I’ve never had my bike stolen, either.)
My nearest Aldi put a lot of racks in an inconvenient and isolated location​​​​​​​
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My nearest ALDI has a very convenient wall near the door to lean my bicycle against where lock it; just like the other stores in the area. I too have had no bicycle stolen in the 20 years I have used this method while shopping at local stores.

I could lock it to the rails around the shopping carts but it is likely to interfere with shoppers as the sidewalk is not that wide at that location.Luckily I am not paranoid about bicycle thieves lurking in every nearby shadow waiting to pounce at the sight of any bicycle not locked and bolted to the ground.

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Old 01-23-23, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I am not paranoid about bicycle thieves.
I wouldn't be either if my bike looked like that.
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Old 01-23-23, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
… a very convenient wall near the door to lean my bicycle against where lock it; just like the other stores in the area. I too have had no bicycle stolen in the 20 years I have used this method while shopping at local stores….
I think bike theft is as complex as traffic, with many more factors besides location, lock, time of day, duration… the list goes on and on … and on any given Sunday anything can happen.

Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I wouldn't be either if my bike looked like that.
Ok. Internet theft poll. Which gets stolen first when parked at the same grocery store in, say, Wichita KS to pick a neutral point: My grocery-getter or ILTB’s?



My grocery-getter.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Most likely they are both untouched after 2 weeks…)

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Old 01-23-23, 11:09 PM
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Ah, logical. If something hasn't happened yet, it will never happen.
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Old 01-24-23, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I wouldn't be either if my bike looked like that.
We can't all be chained to our "gorgeous" bikes.
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Old 01-24-23, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
We can't all be chained to our "gorgeous" bikes.

Is that pipe insulation with zip ties on the bars?
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Old 01-24-23, 04:52 AM
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Something I have noticed whenever this topic comes up, cyclists seem to like ALDI.
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