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Modern Cycling is Becoming Much More Hazardous!!!

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Modern Cycling is Becoming Much More Hazardous!!!

Old 03-05-23, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
That is one HELL of an assumption to make. Drivers don't hit things at 30mph without being aware of it. Cellphone or no cellphone. Not unless they are driving an 18 wheeler. Give the 18 wheelers lots of unearned respect. And every driver on the road is not on their cellphone. Cyclists cannot blame every single accident they have on clueless cagers on cellphones.

There are plenty of us cyclists who have never been hit by a car. Ever. With decades of accident free miles in our rearview mirrors. We do it by not ascribing malicious or negligent motives to other road users. We monitor the road around us and deal with anomalies as they occur; in the moment, without ascribing malicious or negligent motives to other road users, until the crisis is safely in the rearview mirror. It would take at least one police cruiser for every five vehicles on the road to have a prayer of keeping up with the myriad cut-off's, stupid left turns, sideswipes, jackrabbit takeoffs, etc., etc. ... enforcement? Seriously? I don't know ... Josephine County has decided to go without any law enforcement whatsoever after the last bond measure failed. No law enforcement because people don't want to pay for it. In a year or more, not much has changed. It was never about enforcement. Ride aware. Ride safe.
Firstoff, there is no blame. It's just a theory as to why I spent 6 months unable to move. I'm not a physicist, but indeed, your'e right, hitting a stationary object at 30mph would be noticeable. HOWEVER, hitting an object that's going 30mph while you're going 30mph may not be so noticeable...
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Old 03-05-23, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
There’s an A&S forum for this sort of thread.
Understood and thank you. I posted in General because there's more readership...
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Old 03-05-23, 10:10 PM
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I don't know that things are more dangerous these idiots and morons have always been there in different capacities or sometimes the same. Certainly I have noticed on my commutes more and more are coming at me in the wrong direction but they are few and far between and honestly there are more bike lanes and I feel like a slight bit more awareness from the height of COVID (which is still going on) but it is always dangerous going outside. The world is a vicious place and it was us humans that did it.

I will say the scourge of e-scooters and e-mopeds is a problem but it was always a problem when it first started. However really in the end all vehicles are a problem because they are driven by humans and humans well you see what we do. Plus self-driving cars are becoming a thing and guess what another human invention so it is riddled with problems but I think as a whole if we all use vehicles as if there are other vehicles around and treat everyone with respect and some dignity we can end a lot of the crashes and on purpose incidents that we love to call "accidents" to take blame off of ourselves.
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Old 03-05-23, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Electric bicycles, scooters, skateboards etc are great, less people in cars is better for you
Less people in cars is nice---HOWEVER, I can see cars with their big bright lights at night. I can't see electric scooters without lights going the wrong way in my bike lane at night...
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Old 03-05-23, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I would say cycling is becoming less hazardous .... I have not been hit by a car or forced violently off the road in quie a long time ...

Of course, I ride smarter now.

How often the answer seems to be "Simply do better yourself."
Becoming "smarter" as a rider yourself doesn't impact the fact that the environment is becoming more hazardous. It's not impacting me because I've adapted...
Perhaps, think of it as "for the avg cyclist or newbie...."
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Old 03-05-23, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
However really in the end all vehicles are a problem because they are driven by humans and humans well you see what we do.
So, there is no difference between someone on or in a vehicle who 1)knows and takes rules of the road into consideration and 2) says, "Hey, maybe I should spend 5 bucks to get a headlamp so someone doesn't end up getting injured while slamming into me while I'm going the wrong direction in a bike lane?
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Old 03-05-23, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
So, there is no difference between someone on or in a vehicle who 1)knows and takes rules of the road into consideration and 2) says, "Hey, maybe I should spend 5 bucks to get a headlamp so someone doesn't end up getting injured while slamming into me while I'm going the wrong direction in a bike lane?
No not saying that. I am saying we as humans are the problem. We have made it dangerous for ourselves by putting ourselves first and not caring about others. There are some people who do drive and ride and move around with caution but we all make mistakes sometimes. I am not saying every single person is the exact same all the time but that in general we as humans have created these problems not any other forces or outside influences. You personally may not have Bill and Amy down the street possibly not, Riccardo in Spain or Yuki in Japan may not have but in essence we all as humans have played our part in some way or another or are at least part of the collective of humanity and cannot be above or below each other as we all do things that effect others in one way or another maybe not driving but in so many ways.
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Old 03-05-23, 10:35 PM
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It is no more dangerous than when I was a kid, at which time there were still drive-thru liquor stores where you could buy a bottle (or 6) of beer from the drivers seat of your car, and a DUI resulted in a slap on the wrist. The plastic vehicles of today are not more dangerous than the heavy, solid-steel land yachts of those days with their 7 liters of V8 power held back by primitive drum brakes. Speed limits were faster then, 80 mph on the old 2-lane Route 66.

As a former traffic homicide officer, I’ve got some experience in the matter. As for the COVID effect, that has been an issue in those jurisdictions which suffered from funding and policy changes a couple years ago. These places are beginning to understand (I hope) that law enforcement has a much more important effect on public safety than people give it credit for.

Nowadays I live in Japan, which didn’t mandate any nonsense over the last 3 years. As a result, there have been no increases in crime, violence, poverty, homelessness, or traffic accidents .
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Old 03-05-23, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
No not saying that. I am saying we as humans are the problem. We have made it dangerous for ourselves by putting ourselves first and not caring about others
Perhaps, you need to brush up on the term "selfish."
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Old 03-05-23, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Perhaps, you need to brush up on the term "selfish."
Nope all good know what it means! Thanks for the concern though. You should read the whole post and understand it, it might help you with your definition problems maybe?

If you disagree with what I have wrote, please I would love to hear your thoughts and how you consider me to be incorrect. Are humans not the problem? Are we just going to say only some of them are because maybe you, yourself fit into a category that is known for causing problems on the road and don't want to be a part of that? I say all of us because we are all in this whole life together. We cannot sit here and say we are perfect and not causing problems unless we are primitivists who are foraging for plants and living as minimally as possible (which is not really a practical lifestyle these days) which we clearly aren't as we have computers and are posting about bikes because bikes are awesome.

I am not saying you are a bad person or calling you out in any personal way, I am saying we as humans are less than ideal especially in terms of creating problems with vehicles and rather than do the old classic there is a few bad apples we just need to realize the whole tree has issues but it can still produce viable fruit at least for cider and on a nice cold day, a good hot mug of mulled cider with cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, vanilla bean and maybe a little bit of whisky or brandy or insert spirit of choice isn't a bad deal.
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Old 03-05-23, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Nope all good know what it means! Thanks for the concern though. You should read the whole post and understand it, it might help you with your definition problems maybe?

If you disagree with what I have wrote, please I would love to hear your thoughts and how you consider me to be incorrect. Are humans not the problem? Are we just going to say only some of them are because maybe you, yourself fit into a category that is known for causing problems on the road and don't want to be a part of that? I say all of us because we are all in this whole life together. We cannot sit here and say we are perfect and not causing problems unless we are primitivists who are foraging for plants and living as minimally as possible (which is not really a practical lifestyle these days) which we clearly aren't as we have computers and are posting about bikes because bikes are awesome.

I am not saying you are a bad person or calling you out in any personal way, I am saying we as humans are less than ideal especially in terms of creating problems with vehicles and rather than do the old classic there is a few bad apples we just need to realize the whole tree has issues but it can still produce viable fruit at least for cider and on a nice cold day, a good hot mug of mulled cider with cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, vanilla bean and maybe a little bit of whisky or brandy or insert spirit of choice isn't a bad deal.
I don't disagree. Thank you for your time and attention. A human is either selfish and inconsiderate of others or non-selfish and considerate of others whether foraging for plants or posting on our PCs about bikes. End of story...
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Old 03-05-23, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
...Many of these new “travelers” are unskilled...
And many riders, drivers, pedalers, just have no idea how quickly they can become FUBAR...
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Old 03-06-23, 12:20 AM
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Agree with OP that things really took a turn for the worse once smartphones became ubiquitous.

Of course, as cyclists we can also adapt. Part of it is riding smarter, with a non-assuming mindset (i.e., do not assume anyone sees you on your bike), knowing when to just take a lane, riding with daytime lights, cameras, and now, radar. None of this makes the world a safer place, they just make you a safe rider.

A lot of local bike advocacy going on around me but call me a pessimist I think it's a waste of money and effort. My city wasn't designed (i.e., zoned) for a two-wheeled lifestyle and no amount of bike lanes can fix that (bike lanes to go where? And they're interrupted by a ton of stop lights).

The only way cycling will be safer is if the city is designed around a more dense lifestyle (we love our single family houses here), or if there are more cyclists on the streets.

Around here, the only cyclists I see are club riders who only ride in the foothills in the early morning, the homeless, and the occasional commuter.

Things like critical mass and bike party and other social rides help get more folks on bikes but no one is really biking to restaurants or grocery shops, and very few are commuting (many of us can work from home, but also most jobs (let's just say the big tech companies) are 20+miles away without a direct bike route). Two plazas of interest (grocery store, coffee shop, casual dining) close to my house are about 2-3 miles away by the way of the bird, but one is interrupted by a golf course (and an incomplete trail system), forcing me to go around through either a commercial area or through a small residential neighborhood. Getting to the other necessitates crossing and riding along a 40mph road where multiple pedestrian fatalities have occurred within the last 7 years I've been here.
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Old 03-06-23, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101

New battery technology has created noiseless cars, and spawned a new breed of electric locomotion; electric bicycles, scooters, and skateboards.
Moreover, they’re adding a new breed of traveler to our already crowded roads.

My electric car is the only car I've owned that actively warns me of approaching bicycles. Plus it doesn't spew out poisonous fumes for the cyclist to breath. As a cyclist I wish every car was electric, with active collision warning/avoidance.

A general move to personal transport via small electric bikes, scooters etc is all good. That clown on the scooter you mentioned would still be the same clown driving a large SUV. Different hazards, but I'll take my chances with the clown on a scooter every time.
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Old 03-06-23, 05:10 AM
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What I see is that cycling deaths remain about constant, drivers are vastly more courteous than they were a few decades back, bike lanes are much more common ....

Yeah, safer.

A few weeks ago I was coming back from somewhere far away---an out-of-town job---driving down a divided highway at night. For the first time ever i saw headlight s coming my way ... on my side of the highway. I was tid enough I didn't even get upset, I just pulled to one side and kept driving. I thought about calling 911 but figured either someone else would or had, or the driver would figure it out, or something terrible would happen, before the fifteen-minute response time ...

Is this proof that driving is less safe, or that I am selfish?

To me driving is very safe, since I wrecked some cars playing boy racer and realized it was not a fun sport. Cars are certainly safer, and deaths per million miles has been falling steadily for decades. And guess what? Those distracted drivers in cars? They drive Cars. So .... shouldn't accidents be up? Yet I don't seem to have any , on my bike or in my car.

I must be doing it wrong.

This is Not A&S. If you want to dragoon people into agreeing with you, go over there. I still do a lot of rides around rush hour, and I don't have a lot of issues. Sorry for those who do. Sorry if I am not allowed to disagree with you .... but here i am.
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Old 03-06-23, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1
The whole world has become more hazardous for everyone. I think it is likely just going to get more so. It seems we human are determined to destroy ourselves.
Historical charts can help place these ideas in some perspective.

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Old 03-06-23, 08:37 AM
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I do think the human race is well on its way to creating an environment in which human life can barely survive.

However ... this has Always been such an environment.

Far far fewer deaths (by proportion of population) to predation, disease, war, .... the big killers of the past, both natural, and man-made, have mostly been managed. When is the last time any of us had a friend killed by wild animals o roadside bandits or marauding invaders or simple infections?

And over a shorter time frame, deaths of cyclists at the hands of vehicles have remained pretty constant.

There was a spike for Covid, when more people decided bikes offered a good escape.

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality...ail/bicyclists

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and...icycle-deaths/

Note here that while these folks say (alarmingly) "The number of preventable deaths from bicycle transportation incidents increased 16% in 2020 and have increased 44% in the last 10 years, from 873 in 2011 to 1,260 in 2020." they go on to admit, "Of the 1,260 bicyclist deaths in 2020, 806 died in motor-vehicle traffic crashes and 454 in other non-traffic incidents, according to National Center for Health Statistics mortality data."

Basically 450 mountain bikers tried crazy stunts and died. 806 were involved in collisions with cars.

As has been noted in other threads posted recently, about 25% of dead cyclists were over the .08% blood alcohol level. Dark clothing and riding against traffic were also high.

Most posters here use lights at night, observe most road rules, and have a clue that they are both frangible and mortal. We can still get hit, or run off the road, or whatever .... but all this talk of increased hazard? Let's see the numbers.
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Old 03-06-23, 09:49 AM
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The premise of this thread and most of the corresponding comments reminds me why I don’t read Next Door.
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Old 03-06-23, 11:45 AM
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Moved to A&S from General
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Old 03-06-23, 12:32 PM
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I ride like there's a hitman contracted to take me out. I never know if he's in a car, on a bike, on foot, or maybe four feet. Keep my head on a swivel (mirror also), chose the safest route even if it's 5 miles further. Never woolgather. Fighter pilot awareness. Keep my speed up in sketchy neighborhoods. Always leave a way out.

And if everything goes sideways I take my share of the responsibility. I KNOW full well there is a hitman looking for me on my bike and I choose to ride it anyway. (Very selectively these days)
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Old 03-06-23, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Only drivers who are avid cyclists actually see bikes on the road. The avg non cyclist driver is programmed to only see cars and nothing but cars...This has been documented in studies.

Citation needed. At best, you're wildly overstating someone's conclusion.
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Old 03-06-23, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Less people in cars is nice---HOWEVER, I can see cars with their big bright lights at night. I can't see electric scooters without lights going the wrong way in my bike lane at night...

You want to compare the threat to your safety of drivers vs. e-bikes, etc.? Statistically, it's not even a close call by any measure you care to employ.
Cars and trucks kill and injure pedestrians and cyclists far more frequently than any other type of vehicle.

Enough with the nonsense that drivers are generally more law-abiding, btw. They routinely exceed the speed limits, run red lights (the yellow=speed up light phenomenon), and turn, etc. without looking.

None of this is new, neither is the phenomenon of distracted drivers. I disagree with your thesis for this thread because I can't think of a time when cyclists were more safe than they are now, and I know statistically that previous decades were far worse. The US has never been a comparatively safe
country to cycle in. There's always been some risk. We all calculate that in, and hopefully ride in a manner better suited to mitigate those risks.

I am sorry you got hurt, and I would find any suggestion that you have yourself to blame reprehensible. Unfortunately, the reality is as it always has been, you can be doing everything "right", and someone else's wrong can take you out. That's not unique to riding in this era, nor to bicycling at all for that matter. Every activity involves risks.

Sorry, but I don't find jeremiads helpful
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Old 03-06-23, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Firstoff, there is no blame. It's just a theory as to why I spent 6 months unable to move. I'm not a physicist, but indeed, your'e right, hitting a stationary object at 30mph would be noticeable. HOWEVER, hitting an object that's going 30mph while you're going 30mph may not be so noticeable...
It sucks that you got injured, and I hope you are able to recover 100%. However, your incidents aren't proof that today's world is more dangerous.

My father was hit and nearly killed twice while riding his bicycle. The first time was on a mountain road where a driver coming the other way crossed the center line. My father and his friend were both hospitalized. My father had head trauma and a broken leg, and the friend was in a coma for an extended time. That was 1968. The second time, my father was commuting home from work and was hit from behind by a driver who claims they never saw him. Wearing a first-generation Bell hard shell helmet likely saved his life. That was 1980. Not one cell phone was involved in either incident.

I'm not claiming bygone years were more dangerous than now. Determinations like that come from data, not anecdotes.
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Old 03-06-23, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
~~In 2017, I was traveling about 30mph when a car bumped my bars and I wiped out. I was out of commission for 6 months. Indeed, it was a hit & run,
but I really don't think the driver even knew they hit me as they were probably occupied by their smartphone. Since then, my riding strategy has changed dramatically.

~~One summer night last August, I was traveling eastbound in the designated bike lane (with front and rear lights "on"), turning right/southbound into a designated bike lane where
I avoided A HEAD-ON COLLISION WITH AN ELECTRIC SCOOTER GOING THE WRONG WAY WITH NO LIGHTS ON! I was fortunate that there was no automobile traffic at the time.

I have since contacted the city transportation department about better enforcement and stiffer penalties for selfish idiots who have no regard for others.

Times have changed and so have humans. Modern “smartphone culture” has created a new breed of driver who is too easily distracted by the world at their fingertips every waking minute of the day.

New battery technology has created noiseless cars, and spawned a new breed of electric locomotion; electric bicycles, scooters, and skateboards.
Moreover, they’re adding a new breed of traveler to our already crowded roads.


Many of these new “travelers” are unskilled, or ignorant of the rules of the road and the safety of others, or all of the above.

Regardless, all of these things make it extremely hazardous for everybody who shares the road.
I have long advocate smart phones soft ware be set so they turn off if traveling faster than 10MPH!!!!!!
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Old 03-06-23, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
I posted in General because there's more readership...
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