sorry bud, I didn't see you!
03-17-23, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by redshift1
They don't see because they don't look.
But the other half of it comes down to looking, but not recognizing - we're imaged on the retina, but the brain doesn't identify and tag "important".
Particularly when we're lost in a cluttered background, or approaching from an unexpected direction.
03-18-23, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
.
1. Many here, and I'm sure out there in the real world as well, do not want to believe that playing in highway traffic is inherently dangerous because if they believe it is dangerous and do it anyway they are part of the problem.
2. I believe strongly in KNOWING the risks at hand. If I decide to PUT MYSELF AT RISK, and lose that bet, I will not cry like a newborn baby afterwards. I made an adult decision to line up with fast moving imperfect objects that are potentially deadly of my own free will.
3. Maybe better if I don't know (or deny) the danger so I can blame someone else if I get hozed playing in traffic. Yeah, that's the ticket.
1. Many here, and I'm sure out there in the real world as well, do not want to believe that playing in highway traffic is inherently dangerous because if they believe it is dangerous and do it anyway they are part of the problem.
2. I believe strongly in KNOWING the risks at hand. If I decide to PUT MYSELF AT RISK, and lose that bet, I will not cry like a newborn baby afterwards. I made an adult decision to line up with fast moving imperfect objects that are potentially deadly of my own free will.
3. Maybe better if I don't know (or deny) the danger so I can blame someone else if I get hozed playing in traffic. Yeah, that's the ticket.
2. Tough-sounding keyboard warrior blather. You've actually gone so far as to claim that cyclists should expect to be deliberately assaulted when they're riding, and I seriously doubt you'd be so philosophical if you were maimed in this manner. Also, as FBinNY points out, this really goes completely into blame the victim territory. Finally, what people feel about being hit is of no legitimate concern for you. You've literally been posting variations on this exact nonsense for years, and just ignored the fact that there's literally no way to do anything that doesn't entail risk. Telling people how they should feel when they get struck by a bad driver is truly arrogant, obnoxious, and completely unhelpful. I also suspect you'd be humming a very different tune if it happened to you.
3. Strawman victim-blaming conclusion drawn from strawman victim-blaming premises.
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03-18-23, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
A friend of mine and his wife are serious cyclists, all three of us have been car-free cyclists at times (by choice) so we've pretty much seen it all. An interesting story on the topic of rolling coal happened with these two. My bro and I were watching YouTube videos and came across one filmed by the passenger in a diesel pickup truck chugging up a mountain pass during some kind of cycling event where dozens of cyclists spaced pretty far apart were winching themselves up the paved mountain road at what looked like walking speed in the video.
The driver must have been a professional coal-roller because he nailed every cyclist perfectly as he passed them over the course of a couple miles. I guess the wind was just right or something but nearly every cyclist disappeared behind a thick black cloud as they got passed. My bud and I were dying laughing along with the two hillbillies in the truck. His wife eventually came over to see what was so funny and freaked the hell out, scolded us, and became just generally infuriated at the scene in the video.
The reason I bring this up is to illustrate how a situation can differ depending on the tender sensibilities of the people involved. Of course I don't have any breathing disorders that would make that scene less funny but had I been there in person getting rolled I would have given those dudes a freaking trophy.
When I throw my leg over that top tube and press down on a pedal heading into auto traffic land, I kinda expect the worst. Just so long as nobody actually HITS me with a solid object, it's just all part of the program. It is difficult to infuriate me because I AM THE ONE RESPONSIBLE for putting myself into those situations with FULL KNOWLEDGE that sooner than later, I'm going to be "assaulted" out there.
Cycling around motor vehicles SUCKS. If you can't handle a little smoke, perhaps find another pastime. Otherwise you will likely be sad a lot of the time. IMO.
The driver must have been a professional coal-roller because he nailed every cyclist perfectly as he passed them over the course of a couple miles. I guess the wind was just right or something but nearly every cyclist disappeared behind a thick black cloud as they got passed. My bud and I were dying laughing along with the two hillbillies in the truck. His wife eventually came over to see what was so funny and freaked the hell out, scolded us, and became just generally infuriated at the scene in the video.
The reason I bring this up is to illustrate how a situation can differ depending on the tender sensibilities of the people involved. Of course I don't have any breathing disorders that would make that scene less funny but had I been there in person getting rolled I would have given those dudes a freaking trophy.
When I throw my leg over that top tube and press down on a pedal heading into auto traffic land, I kinda expect the worst. Just so long as nobody actually HITS me with a solid object, it's just all part of the program. It is difficult to infuriate me because I AM THE ONE RESPONSIBLE for putting myself into those situations with FULL KNOWLEDGE that sooner than later, I'm going to be "assaulted" out there.
Cycling around motor vehicles SUCKS. If you can't handle a little smoke, perhaps find another pastime. Otherwise you will likely be sad a lot of the time. IMO.
Originally Posted by FBinNY
Interesting point, if true, that he's hung up the wheels.
If so, are getting lectured about demon rum by a reformed alcoholic?
If so, are getting lectured about demon rum by a reformed alcoholic?
03-18-23, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I think it's worse, he's taking the side of deliberate oppressors, and actually finds their actions funny.
We both have years and miles of experience in all sorts of conditions, and seem to have developed a certain level of fatalism.
I approach cycling like I would poker. Everything in front of me is about smart play. What comes up from behind is about luck.
So I generally read his message as, "you've chosen to ride amongst morans and adzholes: do everything you can to survive, but like or lump it, acknowledge that you knew what you've gotten into."
I have all manner of negative thoughts about crappy divers, except anger. They are who they are, and since I'll never change that, I'll simply accept them as I would an unexpected storm.
Likewise with Joey. I think I get him, and prefer to read his posts wearing the rose glasses. Though I sometimes have to dig deep into my well of good will.
03-18-23, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Many here, and I'm sure out there in the real world as well, do not want to believe that playing in highway traffic is inherently dangerous
This crazy tangent that you go on is a mental construct of yours that is not in any way associated with reality.
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03-18-23, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
So I generally read his message as, "you've chosen to ride amongst morans and adzholes: do everything you can to survive, but like or lump it, acknowledge that you knew what you've gotten into."
.
People flock to downtown NOLA and the French Quarter, despite the fact that there are well known hazards associated with it. Do we have the same "oh, well, you knew what you were getting into" when one is *****, assaulted or murdered?
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03-18-23, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
How is that message helpful? ....
It's not my job to defend others here. I get your point, but credit JoeyBike for his experience. And, once they cut through the chaff, many can benefit from those kernels of wisdom that pop up from time to time.
Not that long ago, he posted how when feels traffic unusually bad, he'll pull off and take a break until things improve. A lesson we all can benefit from as we sometimes let frustration and doggedness override common sense. I was pleasantly surprised to see it here, especially considering the source.
I also appreciate his posts as a counterbalance to the "woe is me, a poor cyclist surrounded by people trying to kill me....." I also see here. Also, some of the preaching to the choir, "The USA roads suck, why isn't it like....."
So, if I may suggest, think of him as one of the 2nd parts of the Serenity Prayer. Like bad drivers, he'll neither change nor disappear, so you might as well accept it.
Or as Joey might put it, posts like his are an accepted risk of participation on a forum.....
BTW I left this forum a few years age because some people and BS was getting to me. I'm back now, using a much stronger inboard noise filter, so while there's still some I despise, I'm more able to tune them out.
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03-18-23, 09:46 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I approach cycling like I would poker. Everything in front of me is about smart play. What comes up from behind is about luck.
I've been full-time bike commuting since 2008. Averaging between five to eight thousand miles per year. Very experienced and comfortable riding in traffic. But I got hit for the first time in January, left hook at a busy intersection. The drivers fault for sure (she said "I never saw you" despite my bright colors and bright lights), but in retrospect I chose a poor route and let my guard down for just a short time and paid the price. I should have seen it coming. I was lucky to get off with a mildly seperated shoulder and minimal bike damage - it could have been worse. I've got a new route and a new awarness that even for experienced cyclists, disaster is just a mind-wander away.
03-18-23, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by woodway
...... But I got hit for the first time in January, left hook at a busy intersection.....
Based on numbers of close calls and walk-aways, I consider left crosses, or as I call them "James Deans", my biggest road hazard (over 10).
I plan my escape route to the rear every time I see a car that might, conceivably, maybe turn left. Even so, I've learned to master the insurance scam accident, where I intentionally seem to crash, and end up rolling up on the windshield, and across the hood. It's beautifully dramatic and scares the he'll out of the drivers.
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03-18-23, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Yes, we assume certain risks when we ride on public roads, but we're also allowed the expectation that drivers will act responsibly.
Remember Steve Irwin a.k.a. Crocodile Hunter? He made a good living doing very dangerous things. I'll bet he took every precaution reasonably possible to ensure he lived to make the next episode. But when that giant manta ray killed him Norm Macdonald famously, and sarcastically, responded on The Daily Show "You will never guess who got killed.....the Crocodile Hunter". Or was it the folks cycling on a high speed arterial road? Not sure what's the difference between a mindless manta ray and a mindless motorists other than where they are known to exist and frequent. If we put ourselves in the line of fire of either one, and we get clobbered, lets not WHINE about it too.
Which brings us back to my post and proves my point: Many people here on A&S do not want to know or even hear about the risk. There is comfort in not knowing or believing things for many folks, not just cyclists. We live in an age of zero personal responsibility. Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. If you DO, don't cry if things go sideways.
.
.
03-18-23, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Interesting point, if true, that he's hung up the wheels.
If so, are getting lectured about demon rum by a reformed alcoholic?
If so, are getting lectured about demon rum by a reformed alcoholic?
03-18-23, 11:59 AM
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I've personally been on the "dishing-out" and "receiving" end of the problem, having not been seen while on a bike (by car drivers and others) and not seeing cyclists (and other smaller occupants of a lane [ie, motorcyclists, scooters]).
My best method of avoiding such problems: patience. Waiting until I've had a good couple of seconds to "triple" scan the zone for oncoming, crossing or passing things. Waiting until I've been able to look around my car's A-pillar in order to verify whether something small hasn't been hidden by that (which a quick glance very possibly wouldn't pick up visually). Doesn't solve it every time, but IME it sure helps. And while cycling I can also appreciate drivers who clearly are using this basic method prior to making a maneuver.
Knock on wood, but I haven't been run into while driving my car for many decades now. Haven't been actually run into while cycling ever. Though, a few close calls (in both instances) have served to "tighten" my process until I'm patient enough to have fully scanned the visual field to all but guarantee I'm not about to plaster or get plastered. (May all the pagan gods be looking over my shoulder, in the future, along these lines.)
My best method of avoiding such problems: patience. Waiting until I've had a good couple of seconds to "triple" scan the zone for oncoming, crossing or passing things. Waiting until I've been able to look around my car's A-pillar in order to verify whether something small hasn't been hidden by that (which a quick glance very possibly wouldn't pick up visually). Doesn't solve it every time, but IME it sure helps. And while cycling I can also appreciate drivers who clearly are using this basic method prior to making a maneuver.
Knock on wood, but I haven't been run into while driving my car for many decades now. Haven't been actually run into while cycling ever. Though, a few close calls (in both instances) have served to "tighten" my process until I'm patient enough to have fully scanned the visual field to all but guarantee I'm not about to plaster or get plastered. (May all the pagan gods be looking over my shoulder, in the future, along these lines.)
03-18-23, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I have no such expectation. FYI. There, in one sentence, is the Grand Canyon of our difference of opinion here at A&S...
.
.
Of course you expect drivers to be reasonably OK. You and I can properly factor and avoid crappy drivers from the front and sides. Likewise be smart when turning or making lane changes, but we have ZERO ability to know who's coming up from behind, and/or adjust if necessary.
A reasonable level of trust is necessary to ride roads. Take that away and the calculated risk is unacceptably high, and we'd be on thd bus instead. BTW some years a good friend and very active ride quit because he felt cell phone distraction changed the risk level. I'm still riding, but never disrespected his decision.
But, let's keep 2 issues separate.
Regsrdless of our risk tolerance, it's still an accepted risk. However, accepting statistical risk in the general sense, is completely different from talking about fault and negligence in the specific instance.
This isn't eating eating the cake and still having it. It's 2 different cakes,or maybe a cake and pie.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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03-18-23, 12:50 PM
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I've heard this 3 out of the 4 times I was hit by a car; my first incident was a hit and run, so there was no talking
. On one incident I know the driver didn't see me, because I saw him on his phone talking away, oblivious to anything outside his truck. On another incident the mother blamed her children who were screaming for ice cream (no kidding)
And the fourth incident, I have a feeling they saw me, because I was in the middle of the lane, but I tend to think motorists don't understand how fast cyclists can ride. I tee-boned his vehicle as they pulled out in front of me from a stop sign -- I had the right of way. I had to true my wheel, but he had a dent
I love slaloming on the roadways -- I did a really good maneuver yesterday as a driver pulled in front of me, going into a parking lot (Left Hook) scenario. And a cop witnessed it.
. On one incident I know the driver didn't see me, because I saw him on his phone talking away, oblivious to anything outside his truck. On another incident the mother blamed her children who were screaming for ice cream (no kidding) And the fourth incident, I have a feeling they saw me, because I was in the middle of the lane, but I tend to think motorists don't understand how fast cyclists can ride. I tee-boned his vehicle as they pulled out in front of me from a stop sign -- I had the right of way. I had to true my wheel, but he had a dentI love slaloming on the roadways -- I did a really good maneuver yesterday as a driver pulled in front of me, going into a parking lot (Left Hook) scenario. And a cop witnessed it.
03-18-23, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I have no such expectation. FYI. There, in one sentence, is the Grand Canyon of our difference of opinion here at A&S.
Remember Steve Irwin a.k.a. Crocodile Hunter? He made a good living doing very dangerous things. I'll bet he took every precaution reasonably possible to ensure he lived to make the next episode. But when that giant manta ray killed him Norm Macdonald famously, and sarcastically, responded on The Daily Show "You will never guess who got killed.....the Crocodile Hunter". Or was it the folks cycling on a high speed arterial road? Not sure what's the difference between a mindless manta ray and a mindless motorists other than where they are known to exist and frequent. If we put ourselves in the line of fire of either one, and we get clobbered, lets not WHINE about it too.
Which brings us back to my post and proves my point: Many people here on A&S do not want to know or even hear about the risk. There is comfort in not knowing or believing things for many folks, not just cyclists. We live in an age of zero personal responsibility. Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. If you DO, don't cry if things go sideways.
Remember Steve Irwin a.k.a. Crocodile Hunter? He made a good living doing very dangerous things. I'll bet he took every precaution reasonably possible to ensure he lived to make the next episode. But when that giant manta ray killed him Norm Macdonald famously, and sarcastically, responded on The Daily Show "You will never guess who got killed.....the Crocodile Hunter". Or was it the folks cycling on a high speed arterial road? Not sure what's the difference between a mindless manta ray and a mindless motorists other than where they are known to exist and frequent. If we put ourselves in the line of fire of either one, and we get clobbered, lets not WHINE about it too.
Which brings us back to my post and proves my point: Many people here on A&S do not want to know or even hear about the risk. There is comfort in not knowing or believing things for many folks, not just cyclists. We live in an age of zero personal responsibility. Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. If you DO, don't cry if things go sideways.
.
.The manta ray comparison is ridiculous. As a driver, I have personal responsibility too. As a cyclist, I'm not to blame if you drive like a jerk, you are. It's no excuse for you to say that I assumed the risk of your crappy driving when I put my bike on the road, your evaluation of " responsibility " is childish and protective only of drivers in a way that's completely inconsistent with a general commitment to "personal responsibility." You're being a complete hypocrite here.
You've mistaken hostility to the incredibly overheated way you describe the risk for avoidance of discussion of risk. If you're going to constantly go on about the roads being a "war zone" filled with mindless killing machines, you shouldn't be surprised that no one is likely to give a crap about anything further you have to say--what you're describing doesn't comport with reality as we're experiencing it, and you're obviously using overdramatic hyperbole to tell us how stupid we supposedly are for entering these zones.
And as far as telling people they shouldn't "whine" or "cry" if they're maimed by someone else's bad driving, sorry but that's just disgusting. You need to be called out for that crap. Who the hell do you think you are to judge someone's way of coping with that? And what difference does it make to you at all?
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03-18-23, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't know. I've known Joey through the forum for a long time and in many ways we're kindred spirits. He even uses something I once said in his signature.
We both have years and miles of experience in all sorts of conditions, and seem to have developed a certain level of fatalism.
I approach cycling like I would poker. Everything in front of me is about smart play. What comes up from behind is about luck.
So I generally read his message as, "you've chosen to ride amongst morans and adzholes: do everything you can to survive, but like or lump it, acknowledge that you knew what you've gotten into."
I have all manner of negative thoughts about crappy divers, except anger. They are who they are, and since I'll never change that, I'll simply accept them as I would an unexpected storm.
Likewise with Joey. I think I get him, and prefer to read his posts wearing the rose glasses. Though I sometimes have to dig deep into my well of good will.
We both have years and miles of experience in all sorts of conditions, and seem to have developed a certain level of fatalism.
I approach cycling like I would poker. Everything in front of me is about smart play. What comes up from behind is about luck.
So I generally read his message as, "you've chosen to ride amongst morans and adzholes: do everything you can to survive, but like or lump it, acknowledge that you knew what you've gotten into."
I have all manner of negative thoughts about crappy divers, except anger. They are who they are, and since I'll never change that, I'll simply accept them as I would an unexpected storm.
Likewise with Joey. I think I get him, and prefer to read his posts wearing the rose glasses. Though I sometimes have to dig deep into my well of good will.
Sorry, but I only think you can keep your illusions about him because you skipped a few years of really anti-cyclist crap posts from him. I used to like him too until he took a very dark self-righteous turn a few years ago. There's absolutely no defending that post about coal-rolling I quoted above.
03-18-23, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I love slaloming on the roadways -- I did a really good maneuver yesterday as a driver pulled in front of me, going into a parking lot (Left Hook) scenario. And a cop witnessed it.
03-18-23, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Sorry, but I only think you can keep your illusions about him because you skipped a few years of really anti-cyclist crap posts from him. I used to like him too until he took a very dark self-righteous turn a few years ago. There's absolutely no defending that post about coal-rolling I quoted above.
Last edited by FBinNY; 03-18-23 at 03:02 PM.
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03-18-23, 03:25 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Kind of off-topic, but I know what you mean about the "love" part. The times where I've done that slaloming maneuver, I usually don't even realize it consciously until it's done, then there's this little "wow, I did that" thrill when I realize I've just avoided a bunch of hurt with quick reflexes. If I actually had to consciously think it over, it would be too late. Times like that really illustrate what a terrific survival adaptation involuntary flinching really is.
I suspect that early in their careers cyclists unconsciously opt to steer rather than brake, and that reflex is locked in for life.
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“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
03-18-23, 03:53 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
...or maybe a cake and pie.
03-18-23, 04:02 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
There's absolutely no defending that post about coal-rolling I quoted above.
When I push that pedal down for the first time every ride I already KNOW, that someone might coal roll me, pass too close on purpose, throw M&Ms at me (has happened), blow a horn just to startle me, attempt to right hook or door me, throw a fire cracker (has happened), or in some way try to F with me. The only way to prevent any of the above is to NOT ride a bike on streets. I chose to ride my bike on streets knowing full well someone is going to have their fun with me. Might take years, but it's coming and I'm not a crybaby about it. I strolled into the lion's den of my on free will.
That said, if someone coal-rolls me and nails me real good, my hat is off to them. So long as they keep their bumpers, baseball bats, and thrown bricks to themselves I'm fine with the other shenanigans. Comes with the territory. Just don't hit me with a solid object and it's all good.
I do not have asthma for the record, and I'm breathing exhaust fumes all day anyway.
Originally Posted by FBinNY
A reasonable level of trust is necessary to ride roads.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 03-18-23 at 04:14 PM.
03-18-23, 05:04 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I have a sense of humor. This is my defense.
You really don't. Finding videos of people deliberately assaulting cyclists funny is not a sense of humor, it's sadism. People get killed when jerks like that misjudge. Also, it's okay because you don't have asthma?!?!?! Screw that, the person doing the coal-rolling has no idea whether the cyclist does or doesn't have something that might make that completely debilitating. You don't have any sense of humor, just an inflated sense of self-worth that causes you to continually give the same stupid lecture again and again.
I'm really not impressed by your resume of assaults, I could if I wanted produce a fairly similar set that have happened to me. I lived to ride away without injury and have on a couple of occasions ended up scaring the crap out of the miscreant responsible. I don't get "sad", I get out or I get even. Someday, your luck might run out, and that may also happen to me. I don't need you to tell me how I should feel about that, and no one else on these forums seems to either.
03-18-23, 05:29 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Interesting post. The suburb that I live in is chock full of 4 ways stops. For no rhyme or reason, some intersections have no stops and others are two way. Motorists that are accustomed to most stops being 4 way, will roll up come to an almost stop at a 2 way, then go without looking, assuming that it's a 4 way and that with nobody at the intersection it's clear.
Originally Posted by Korina
Inattentional blindness is another reason for drivers not seeing us, as well as the "the faster you go the narrower your field of vision".
My new favorite is how most drivers at a stop waiting to turn right, only look for a hole in oncoming traffic; they never glance in the other direction for pedestrians; we've had people killed because of that. Hell, I nearly died because of that. Giant pickup on single lane two-way turning left onto multi-lane one-way; fortunately I was on foot, halfway across the other lane when he zoomed past me to the stop sign. I stood there, two feet from his quarter panel, and watched the back of his head for at least two minutes before he made his left turn. I don't think he ever saw me. Moral of the story; NEVER trust the drivers.
My new favorite is how most drivers at a stop waiting to turn right, only look for a hole in oncoming traffic; they never glance in the other direction for pedestrians; we've had people killed because of that. Hell, I nearly died because of that. Giant pickup on single lane two-way turning left onto multi-lane one-way; fortunately I was on foot, halfway across the other lane when he zoomed past me to the stop sign. I stood there, two feet from his quarter panel, and watched the back of his head for at least two minutes before he made his left turn. I don't think he ever saw me. Moral of the story; NEVER trust the drivers.
So much of driver activity at intersections is a semi-autonomic invoking of learned and conditioned behavior. Drivers look and focus in directions where they have been conditioned to expect threats to them, and not in other directions. And passive devices such as static signs and markings have been remarkably ineffective in changing those behavior patterns.
A slide from one of my presentations - the wrong-way rider could also be a pedestrian:
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03-18-23, 05:43 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
You don't have any sense of humor, just an inflated sense of self-worth that causes you to continually give the same stupid lecture again and again.
Correction: I DO have a good sense of humor AND an inflated sense of self-worth. And that's MISTER stupid lecturer to you.
03-18-23, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I've never come here (A&S) and complained that something bad happened to me on the roadway. All of those scenarios are completely predictable and expected by me. My sense of humor is the key to not chasing down goofballs in vehicles who "disrespect" me. I just laugh it off. I don't take revenge and I don't cry about it. I know what's coming and I ride anyway. It's all on me, not them. I'm the only person I can control.
Correction: I DO have a good sense of humor AND an inflated sense of self-worth. And that's MISTER stupid lecturer to you.
Correction: I DO have a good sense of humor AND an inflated sense of self-worth. And that's MISTER stupid lecturer to you.
Y'know, I haven't noticed anybody you've been castigating here being any more dead than you are. You don't have some sort of magic attitude that's making you do better than anyone else.
