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Old 05-21-23, 08:39 PM
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Jamus
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New to the forum - Hello

First time on this (or any) forum…

I’m interested in having polite dialogue with a cyclist who rides on city streets. I’m not a cyclist and I’m interested in sharing perspectives about sharing the road. I’m NOT interested in hateful dialogue and will quickly remove myself if that occurs.

I’m very interested in hearing what cyclists think about the mix of bicycles and automobiles on city streets.

thanx
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Old 05-22-23, 06:42 AM
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Old 05-22-23, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamus
Iím very interested in hearing what cyclists think about the mix of bicycles and automobiles on city streets.

thanx
I've been cycling on the streets since the mid-80's, so I'm very comfortable riding on roads with all other types of vehicles. I don't think I would like riding on separated bike lanes, like what's in Copenhagen, simply because it would slow me down. I have ridden on separated bike paths in the DC area and didn't like them.



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Old 05-22-23, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamus
First time on this (or any) forumÖ

Iím interested in having polite dialogue with a cyclist who rides on city streets. Iím not a cyclist and Iím interested in sharing perspectives about sharing the road. Iím NOT interested in hateful dialogue and will quickly remove myself if that occurs.

Iím very interested in hearing what cyclists think about the mix of bicycles and automobiles on city streets.

thanx
If you are looking for general information, I'd invite you to simply read through the topics that have already been discussed here. If you are looking for specific information, I'd encourage you to be specific with your question. As a general rule, the more specific the question the better quality answers you'll get.

Responding to what you said you wanted to hear, I'd tell you that the mixture can be disastrous.
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Old 05-23-23, 07:58 AM
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There are roads I'll ride my bike on and others I won't ride on. Some roads are just too busy, and that means I increase my chances of encountering that one crazy person that gets bent out of shape if I ride on their "turf". Or increases the chance I'll encounter that one person watching the cute video their friend just texted them. I only ride for enjoyment and exercise, not to get from point A to point B for work or for shopping.

Are any of us wanting hurtful dialog or spewing it out? Probably not. However sometimes the matter-of-fact way we write our opinions gets taken wrong by readers that can't pick up on the queues they would if we were talking in person. So frequently what's written is read with a mean tone even though it wasn't intended.
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Old 05-23-23, 08:58 PM
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I have found that the more I act like a car, the more drivers treat me like one.
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Old 05-24-23, 11:28 AM
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Having bicycled on roads for over half a century, I'm comfortable in mixed traffic. Like many other experienced riders, I prefer the roads to what I call "separate but unequal" bike lanes.

I suspect that you'll find a cultural divide here with faster and/or more experienced riders happier in mixed traffic, and newer riders preferring specific bike infrastructure.

However, it's not black and white, and I support bike lanes where they make sense, ie. on bridges or high volume corridors where other options are limited.

As noted earlier, you can scan various threads and get a general feel for the spectrum of opinions. It can get heated at times, but as a nonpartispant it shouldn't upset you.
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Old 05-24-23, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
I have found that the more I act like a car, the more drivers treat me like one.

Just don't stand next to a gas pump, then.

Sorry, I had to...
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Old 05-24-23, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamus
First time on this (or any) forumÖ

Originally Posted by Jamus
Iím interested in having polite dialogue with a cyclist who rides on city streets. Iím not a cyclist and Iím interested in sharing perspectives about sharing the road. Iím NOT interested in hateful dialogue and will quickly remove myself if that occurs.

Iím very interested in hearing what cyclists think about the mix of bicycles and automobiles on city streets.

thanx
...I ride city streets here all the time. I try to smile and wave a lot, and yield the right of way to drivers at intersections, unless they wave me through first. So far it's working.
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Old 05-24-23, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
I have found that the more I act like a car, the more drivers treat me like one.
I find that if I'm cycling at 20 mph I get treated like a motorcyclist on city streets with speed limits up to 35 mph. The slower i go the more trouble I have. Anything less than 15 mph and I'm right-hook bait and getting close passed all day. Being able to sprint up to 30+ for a block or two is a HUGE advantage when needed. I would not ride a bike on any city street under 15 mph.
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Old 05-24-23, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Just don't stand next to a gas pump, then.

Sorry, I had to...


Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I find that if I'm cycling at 20 mph I get treated like a motorcyclist on city streets with speed limits up to 35 mph. The slower i go the more trouble I have. Anything less than 15 mph and I'm right-hook bait and getting close passed all day. Being able to sprint up to 30+ for a block or two is a HUGE advantage when needed. I would not ride a bike on any city street under 15 mph.
Hmmm, I can only maintain 15+ on flat or descending roads, so I wouldn't be able to climb, but I really haven't had much trouble even at slower speeds. To me, the most important things are to be predictable and to communicate with drivers. Hold my hand out if it's a dangerous place to pass, wave them through when I see no traffic coming the other way, make a definite stop at the intersection so they know I expect them to take their right-of-way, etc.
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Old 05-26-23, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I find that if I'm cycling at 20 mph I get treated like a motorcyclist on city streets with speed limits up to 35 mph. The slower i go the more trouble I have. Anything less than 15 mph and I'm right-hook bait and getting close passed all day. Being able to sprint up to 30+ for a block or two is a HUGE advantage when needed. I would not ride a bike on any city street under 15 mph.
This is why I avoid those "how fast do you ..." threads. 30mph is the speed the e-motorcycle hooligans that y'all's love to throw hate at are supposed to ride. I.e. a thoroughly unattainable speed for decent cycling. How fast did a doped Lance Armstrong accelerate to 30mph? How long could a doped Lance Armstrong hold 30mph on level ground? I know you are at least my age and probably not in as good a shape. Unless your bike is e-assisted, which if is the case, it would be polite to mention. Unless assisted, a more realistic top speed to hold for an untrained city cyclist for a block on level ground is 20mph to possibly 25mph, depending on talent/training/experience. Add even one more block and that drops to 17mph tp 20mph. Most riding is done at 8mph to 12mph. And a more realistic lower limit to insist on is zero speed. I am often at <4mph to zero speed on city streets, and I will not proceed into any situation where I cannot safely reduce my speed to zero without impeding the smooth flow of traffic around me.
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Old 05-27-23, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
This is why I avoid those "how fast do you ..." threads. 30mph is the speed the e-motorcycle hooligans that y'all's love to throw hate at are supposed to ride.
I have little hate for E-Bikes. Some hate for E-Bike rider behavior. Riding 30 mph (if that's possible on an E-bike) on a crowded bike lane or Rail-Trail is foolish and dangerous IMO.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I.e. a thoroughly unattainable speed for decent cycling.
The day I cannot attain 30 mph for a block is the day I stop riding certain roads that are direct routes to my destination and use a network of back streets.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I know you are at least my age and probably not in as good a shape. Unless your bike is e-assisted, which if is the case, it would be polite to mention. Unless assisted, a more realistic top speed to hold for an untrained city cyclist for a block on level ground is 20mph to possibly 25mph, depending on talent/training/experience.
Just made 65yo. I have zero motorized bikes. They are too slow. I pass them all the time. 20 is the top of my comfort zone, 18 being very comfortable and my "relaxed" pace. Maybe I'm a freak of nature. Was a track star in high school also, fastest kid in the school my senior year, second fastest the first three years. If you must know.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Most riding is done at 8mph to 12mph.
Dood, I can push a longboard average 7 mph for 20 miles, as can many people on this Earth. I have Strava entries to prove this. I can AVERAGE 10 mph on quad roller skates over 10 miles, and inline speed skates have attained 30 mph momentarily and average 15 mph easily. I have posted many videos here over the years of me keeping up with auto traffic on bikes, or blowing past them. I also have video with GPS view of me accelerating from a red light up to 30 as fast as I could. It's about 5 years old now I'm guessing.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
And a more realistic lower limit to insist on is zero speed. I am often at <4mph to zero speed on city streets, and I will not proceed into any situation where I cannot safely reduce my speed to zero without impeding the smooth flow of traffic around me.
It's pretty rare I ever see zero mph. I keep up with traffic in the grid. Or I ride in the GAPS created by red lights where there is zero auto traffic, and if I maintain a decent speed they will never overtake me. That's my technique. Either stay out front of the pack alone, or draft (reasonably) any vehicle in a line of moving traffic. I can draft a car at 25+ forever. I stay out of the bike lanes unless I'm on my skateboard, and I am STILL passing cyclists out for a leisurely cruse on their beach bombers.

I have tons of video evidence. Much has been posted here in the past. I decided to delete everything from YouTube due to them monetizing my original content without my permission. But I could still post there if you want video evidence. DONE

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Old 05-27-23, 07:12 PM
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Well now that we've gotten that out of the way... Jamus, what was it you wanted to know about street riding? If you can be more specific with your question we might be able to give you more productive answers.
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Old 05-28-23, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
...Unless [electric motor] assisted, a more realistic top speed to hold for an untrained city cyclist for a block on level ground is 20mph to possibly 25mph, depending on talent/training/experience. Add even one more block and that drops to 17mph to 20mph. Most riding is done at 8mph to 12mph...
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Dood, I can push a longboard average 7 mph for 20 miles, as can many people on this Earth.
As luck would have it a friend of mine participated in a longboard skate marathon just last night. Finished 2nd place. This is his Strava entry. Just because a person isn't a professional cyclist doesn't mean they don't have capabilities beyond yours.

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Old 05-28-23, 09:01 AM
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I wouldn't think I need to explain that there's a difference between racing on a closed course and cycling in traffic! The 8mph to 12mph speeds are averages due to realities on the ground like stop signs, traffic lights, pedestrians, etc.
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Old 05-28-23, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I wouldn't think I need to explain that there's a difference between racing on a closed course and cycling in traffic! The 8mph to 12mph speeds are averages due to realities on the ground like stop signs, traffic lights, pedestrians, etc.
You made a blanket statement of generalities. Every situation is not the same. My old commute shortest distance was 5 miles in a nearly straight line on a 35 mph road. I averaged anywhere from 19-22mph on that stretch. 19 if I got delayed by cross traffic, 22 if I got lucky. It comes in handy to attain 30 mph for a block or two. You mentioned Lance Armstrong and other things unrelated to commuting. Half accused me of riding an E-Bike. If you missed the video evidence clearly showing that I can do what I claim, here's the

I stand by my statement: If I cant average 20+, or attain 30mph for a block or two, then I stop cycling on 35 mph roads. I don't care how someone else squeaking along at 8 mph handles 35 mph roads. That's their problems along with the motorists jammed up behind them.

I never expected an apology. But now you know. If not, I have other clear video evidence i can post. Now move along to disparage someone else's capabilities of whom you don't know ****, if you please.

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Old 05-28-23, 11:48 PM
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At least Lance rides a bicycle. What is all the skateboard nonsense about? I didn't ask for proof that you can ride a bicycle at 30mph but if you are going to volunteer some you should know the protocols. That video above proves nothing! I'm surprised only half of viewers accuse you of e-doping. Probably half of the other half can't be bothered enough to argue. Riders that want to be taken seriously show their bike computers hitting whatever target speed is in dispute. They also may have another rider video them so their bike can be seen. #notconvinced
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Old 05-29-23, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
At least Lance rides a bicycle. What is all the skateboard nonsense about? I didn't ask for proof that you can ride a bicycle at 30mph but if you are going to volunteer some you should know the protocols. That video above proves nothing! I'm surprised only half of viewers accuse you of e-doping. Probably half of the other half can't be bothered enough to argue. Riders that want to be taken seriously show their bike computers hitting whatever target speed is in dispute. They also may have another rider video them so their bike can be seen. #notconvinced
Just keep moving the goalposts, which is what I expected.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
What is all the skateboard nonsense about?
You made a statement that most/many urban riders/commuters average speed is 8-12 mph. What did that have to do with me? You were insinuating that I was embellishing my claims. I then told you I can push a skateboard (longboard) at 7 mph for 20 miles as can many people on this Earth (to make a point that I certainly am NOT cycling at 8-12 mph in traffic). So I posted a Strava friend of mine averaging 16mph over 26 miles only because it popped up on my feed that same day.

So there's your answer. Not every athlete besides you (and Lance) are slow.

I have 180 videos filmed by me, most long before E-bikes were a thing or sports cameras were common. I didn't know one other person with one. I did get filmed one time, I don't own the rights, and don't know where to find that footage. I was on a modern Cinelli Supercorsa dripping with Campy (11 speed) much of the time. I have lots of pics of that bike in use. I posted dozens of those videos right here in the past.

I still ride too. Just got myself a Surly Lowside 1x1 six days ago and already have 100 miles on it. Urban assault vehicle, maybe some trails. No, I won't be hitting 30 mph on that except downhill. But I won't be riding on narrow, busy 35 mph streets with it either. Handlebars must be 4 feet wide (exaggerated) so I'm either in the door zone or the traffic lane going too slow. I don't do that.
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