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What Is Wrong With People?

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What Is Wrong With People?

Old 10-01-23, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
That could get you squished like a bug: I watched an old lady go around a corner with a mormon missionary in that exact position one morning. Her car hit him onto the curb and the wheels of her car moed the bicycle.
You mean the cyclist was going straight through intersection and driver made a right turn and right hooked the cyclist ??..Right hooks are totally preventable and it's mostly a cyclists responsibility to avoid being right hooked.
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Old 10-01-23, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
You mean the cyclist was going straight through intersection and driver made a right turn and right hooked the cyclist ??..Right hooks are totally preventable and it's mostly a cyclists responsibility to avoid being right hooked.
That's right, RH are preventable and I as a cyclist have accepted the responsibility to prevent a RH. I do this by taking the lane at stop signs/lights and when I'm traveling at the same speed as traffic, I take the lane, mostly to guard against RHs.

They are very easy to prevent in those cases. However, I continue, on occasion, have a motorist speed up from behind me so they can pass me (while I'm FRAP'ing) to make a right turn in a way that causes me to brake -- and it was obvious that they didn't gain any time whatsoever by doing that dangerous maneuver. Those are the more difficult to guard against.



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Old 10-01-23, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
You mean the cyclist was going straight through intersection and driver made a right turn and right hooked the cyclist ??..Right hooks are totally preventable and it's mostly a cyclists responsibility to avoid being right hooked.
Isn't it the passing vehicles responsibility to ensure they have a safe distance on the vehicle they just passed before moving back over or turning in front of the vehicle they just passed?

I think we all know that we all have to expect the unexpected and watch out for the people that have no clue or no concern for others. However you seem to be siding with the person or persons that are legally and ultimately at fault.
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Old 10-01-23, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
However you seem to be siding with the person or persons that are legally and ultimately at fault.
I am not siding with wrong doers. All I am saying is that cyclists need to accept the fact that not all drivers will always act responsibly and it's the cyclist responsibility to think ahead and be prepared to take action to avoid being hit...Of course we all know there are situations which are totally beyond our control but most incidents are preventable.
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Old 10-01-23, 02:38 PM
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You mean the cyclist was going straight through intersection and driver made a right turn and right hooked the cyclist ??..Right hooks are totally preventable and it's mostly a cyclists responsibility to avoid being right hooked.
That is correct. Hugging the right curb at an intersection is a very bad idea even if you intended to turn. Let alone go straight. The motorists will hit you with their cars.
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Old 10-01-23, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
I am not siding with wrong doers. All I am saying is that cyclists need to accept the fact that not all drivers will always act responsibly and it's the cyclist responsibility to think ahead and be prepared to take action to avoid being hit...Of course we all know there are situations which are totally beyond our control but most incidents are preventable.
I think most of us do that. It's been said so many times here before and most of us in this thread have heard that many times.

If you are going to make the simple statements you made, you should at least phrase it so it does not look like you are blaming the cyclist for something another has done wrong. Or am I to understand that rules shouldn't ever apply and we all should just look out for number 1?
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Old 10-01-23, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
That is correct. Hugging the right curb at an intersection is a very bad idea even if you intended to turn. Let alone go straight. The motorists will hit you with their cars.
No. They won't.
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Old 10-01-23, 04:26 PM
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No. They won't.
​​​​​​​So you like to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
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Old 10-01-23, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
So you like to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
​​​​​​​You can wax poetic all you want. A sense of order on the roads is important. Slow traffic stay right.
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Old 10-01-23, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
Look at the Google Maps screenshot. There are only two lanes (one each direction). There was no center or passing lane for the motorist to enter. He was in the oncoming lane.
Then he should have 1.) cued up behind the motorist or 2.) pulled to the right of the car, behind the rear bumper and let the car make his move first. Check over your shoulder as you go. This is City Riding 101. I spent 25 years riding in Boston/Cambridge.
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Old 10-01-23, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Then he should have 1.) cued up behind the motorist or 2.) pulled to the right of the car, behind the rear bumper and let the car make his move first. Check over your shoulder as you go. This is City Riding 101. I spent 25 years riding in Boston/Cambridge.
Paul was in front of the motorist approaching a red light. The motorist was required to stay behind, but instead they pulled into the oncoming lane to wait at said light.

I've been cycling on the road by myself since I was 10, so that's 26 years for me. I've biked in NJ, NY, PA, DE, MD, VA, FL, KS, MO, IN, OH, and MI. From my experience (which a metric ton of cyclists of have corroborated), the wisest move when approaching a red light or traveling straight through a junction is to take the lane. Hugging the fog line invites dangerous overtakes and/or right hooks. In the lane center it removes ambiguity as to what your intentions are, and it also places you closer to the central in-focus cone of an oncoming motorist's vision, particularly those waiting to turn left (and thus across your path).
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Old 10-01-23, 05:07 PM
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​​​​​​​You can wax poetic all you want. A sense of order on the roads is important. Slow traffic stay right.
It seems that you have very little understanding of what is safe and legal at an intersection when bicycling. More than 80 percent of car bicycle collisions happen at intersections. The OP was operating his bicycle in a safe and orderly manner. The individual in the car who approached from the rear saw a bicycle and drove over the posted speed limit and stopped next to the bicyclist illegally in the oncoming lane. He then stated his desire to make a right turn. This individual wanted to punish someone for being on his road. I have seen dogs dominating other dogs at the dog park with more manners than he showed. You are not required by the law to stay right at an intersection.
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Old 10-01-23, 05:46 PM
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I almost always take the lane. I don't give two cents about anyone who wants to turn right on red. If I were in a car, they'd have to wait. I have as much right to the road as they do. I'm not putting myself in a situation inviting a car to squeeze by on either side of me. If any driver gave me lip about that, I'd just point to all the rubber on the curb. I spend way more time waiting on cars than cars do waiting on me. I'm not arrogant about it, I simply do what I believe is safest for me. And where it doesn't put me at risk, I do what I can to make things easier for traffic to get around me.

As to the topic of idiot drivers, I do think the main issue is some drivers just seem to not have the ability to deal with an uncommon situation for them. I think this gets worsened by some people who simply see a bike as something they must get past, no matter what. Like a big pothole. The idea of simply falling in behind a bike and being slowed for a moment, seems to be a concept beyond many drivers.

I have NEVER been honked at, or yelled at etc. for taking a lane and perhaps holding someone up from making a right on red. Honestly, that has surprised me. Even at a few intersection were 99% of the cars are turning right rather than going straight. I suppose mostly it's the car immediately behind me that sees me, everyone else probably just assumes the car behind me is going straight.

In the end though, I think most drivers are trying to do the best they can. I've made mistakes driving, I've made mistakes riding. So, I don't get upset about drivers who likely just made a mistake.
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Old 10-01-23, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Isn't it the passing vehicles responsibility to ensure they have a safe distance on the vehicle they just passed before moving back over or turning in front of the vehicle they just passed?
Should be, yeah. But passing another motor vehicle in such a situation as the OP's described then making a right turn in front of said vehicle is patently illegal pretty much everywhere to my knowledge. Pulling out to pass, taking up the oncoming traffic's lane to do so, is also illegal.

I routinely find myself trying to cross a multi-lane hiway in town. I'm at a stop sign, sometimes far to the right, some other times in the middle of the single lane (I'm a vehicle, right? Not a pedestrian?) in the cross street. Inevitably there are vehicles in the cross-traffic who choose to stop in their respective lanes so as to 'yield right of way' for me to cross!

NOT GONNA HAPPEN. I make it a practice to LOOK AWAY from traffic coming from my LEFT (be first to hit me if I proceed) so I can measure the presence of traffic coming from the RIGHT (that has the right of way at such intersections) yet traffic coming from the LEFT inevitably has a driver or two who take it upon themselves to block traffic so as to make it possible for me to cross.

Even though I'm patiently waiting, at a stop sign, one or both feet planted on the pavement, for traffic to clear the intersection so I can cross when it's safe to do so.

Happens a lot.

Drivers uniformly don't understand the rules of the road. Cyclists must if they're going to survive mixing with motor traffic.

But they're still at a considerable disadvantage in view of their exposure, their lack of protection, the relative speed difference between themselves and motor traffic and the general inattentiveness of a great majority of private motor vehicle drivers who don't acknowledge the rights of cyclists as legitimate vehicular traffic.
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Old 10-01-23, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Then he should have 1.) cued up behind the motorist or 2.) pulled to the right of the car, behind the rear bumper and let the car make his move first. Check over your shoulder as you go. This is City Riding 101. I spent 25 years riding in Boston/Cambridge.
That doesn't make sense in context. The OP was already stopped at the intersection when the car arrived. It isn't possible to queue behind a car that isn't there when you arrive. Similarly, you can't pull to the right behind the rear bumper.
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Old 10-01-23, 07:52 PM
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My vote:

I'm stopping at the red light dead center in the lane same as if I were on a motorcycle. If someone behind me is signaling a right turn and there is any SAFE way for me to facilitate their turning I would do so. Otherwise they just have to wait, same as if any other type of vehicle was occupying my space.
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Old 10-02-23, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
That doesn't make sense in context. The OP was already stopped at the intersection when the car arrived. It isn't possible to queue behind a car that isn't there when you arrive. Similarly, you can't pull to the right behind the rear bumper.
It was his original error to be in the middle of the road. He should have been to the right, and at least a car's-length from the corner, if he predicted any traffic. I do not understand his objection.
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Old 10-02-23, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
Look at the Google Maps screenshot. There are only two lanes (one each direction). There was no center or passing lane for the motorist to enter. He was in the oncoming lane.
I thought by typing out that I was on Houma and providing a sceenshot that shows Houma as a narrow 2 lane, that would be obvious.
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Old 10-02-23, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
Look at the Google Maps screenshot. There are only two lanes (one each direction). There was no center or passing lane for the motorist to enter. He was in the oncoming lane.
O.P. notes that he was in the "passing lane". He also notes that the auto was in the "wrong lane", but does not specify if it is the opposite lane(s) or if he considers the lane to his right to be the "wrong lane". We need a clearer picture. I had initially assumed that O.P. meant the right lane when he described it as the "wrong lane", hence my initial confusion and objection.
If the car pulled up to O.P. in the opposite lane, yes, I would agree with O.P. that that is crazy. Especially since the driver wanted to take a right turn.
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Old 10-02-23, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
I thought by typing out that I was on Houma and providing a sceenshot that shows Houma as a narrow 2 lane, that would be obvious.
You said you were in the "center lane".
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Old 10-02-23, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
If it was me I would stay to the right of the lane few inches from the curb. After the light turned green I would proceed cautiously making sure that there is no possibility of being right hooked.
Riding mid-lane is the mitigation tactic recommended for avoiding a right hook.

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Old 10-02-23, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
You said you were in the "center lane".
Center of my lane. Does 3 lane Airline Highway look like any 20 MPH residential road you have ever seen?
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Old 10-02-23, 04:52 AM
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In this day and age, it's usually best to keep your mouth shut when dealing with strangers driving cars. There's no real way to tell what the next "CNN Minute" looks like. Especially true since there's absolutely no way to "train" drivers to do better. Every car driver has the ultimate deadly weapon, and a cyclist has no way to effectively protect against it.
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Old 10-02-23, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
There's NO reason for you to hog the lane for ONE car.

Your title right here. I think most people are just plain stupid and cyclists count among the stupid.
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Old 10-02-23, 05:38 AM
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I do the same thing as the OP, and maybe or maybe not ask WTF of the driver. I will say that many times when I do that, the drivers who are making the right turn will give me a wave of 'thank you.' I have, however, had drivers pull up beside me thinking that I was making a left turn because I'm occupying the center of the lane, and then going straight as light turns green. I am usually aware that the driver has no intention of right turning, and when light turns green I am usually faster off and through the intersection before the adjacent driver is. I've never had any problems with this.

It's the same with driving. If possible, I'll position the vehicle as far left as possible so right-turning vehicles can make their turn. Again, I've gotten lots of friendly waves of 'thank you' from drivers. It's just simple situation awareness.
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