What Is Wrong With People?
10-02-23, 12:47 PM
#76
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I don't have feelings. I have one remaining feeling It wasn't hurt by the the illegal and dangerous driving, and it certainly won't be hurt by a child on the internet.
10-02-23, 12:48 PM
#77
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It appears we have the bicyclists and the submissives. The bicyclists ride according to the law and appropriately handle themselves at intersections. When a bicyclist such as the OP posts about a maniacal psychopath acting out toward a bicyclists. The submissives start posting about how wrong he is based upon the actions of the maniacal psychopath. The submissives then explain to the bicyclists, their method of riding at an intersection. They practice hood ornament bicycle theory. They believe if they retreat in fear at every turn they will be safer.
The actions of the motorist that is referred to in this posting are not the norm by far unless you live in Florida.
The actions of the motorist that is referred to in this posting are not the norm by far unless you live in Florida.
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10-02-23, 12:56 PM
#79
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In Arizona, the applicable statutes are ARS 28-815 (bicycles to right) and ARS 28-735 (3 ft passing).
Several years ago, a Phoenix police officer pulled me over for using the center of a travel lane. He said that a sign (on a different street several miles away) "proved" I needed to stay right at all times, and that I was disobeying a traffic control device in riding where I was.
Picture of the sign legend:
I was polite in my response. We got out ARS (easy to do now it's electronic), and I showed where the location I was riding had a 10.5' lane and was not wide enough for same-lane overtaking with anything resembling 3 ft clearance. I then discussed the sign, which was an older (late 1990s) design before we had data on just how widely the term "share" was interpreted by road users, and also noted it conflicted with the letter of the law at our location and even at the installed location (at the time of the encounter, I was chairing the technical committee advising FHWA on bicycle signing nationwide). We parted amicably, and in future encounters he would smile and wave when changing lanes to pass.
A few years later, I was stopped by a different officer who would not review the statutes, insisted I had to stay on the sidewalk regardless of circumstances, and threatened me with being detained should I question his authority on the issue. Complaints to upper management were... unresponded.
Several years ago, a Phoenix police officer pulled me over for using the center of a travel lane. He said that a sign (on a different street several miles away) "proved" I needed to stay right at all times, and that I was disobeying a traffic control device in riding where I was.
Picture of the sign legend:
I was polite in my response. We got out ARS (easy to do now it's electronic), and I showed where the location I was riding had a 10.5' lane and was not wide enough for same-lane overtaking with anything resembling 3 ft clearance. I then discussed the sign, which was an older (late 1990s) design before we had data on just how widely the term "share" was interpreted by road users, and also noted it conflicted with the letter of the law at our location and even at the installed location (at the time of the encounter, I was chairing the technical committee advising FHWA on bicycle signing nationwide). We parted amicably, and in future encounters he would smile and wave when changing lanes to pass.
A few years later, I was stopped by a different officer who would not review the statutes, insisted I had to stay on the sidewalk regardless of circumstances, and threatened me with being detained should I question his authority on the issue. Complaints to upper management were... unresponded.
10-02-23, 01:03 PM
#80
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It appears we have the bicyclists and the submissives. The bicyclists ride according to the law and appropriately handle themselves at intersections. When a bicyclist such as the OP posts about a maniacal psychopath acting out toward a bicyclists. The submissives start posting about how wrong he is based upon the actions of the maniacal psychopath. The submissives then explain to the bicyclists, their method of riding at an intersection. They practice hood ornament bicycle theory. They believe if they retreat in fear at every turn they will be safer.
.
.
From an advocacy standpoint the submissives do more harm than good. You know what's going to follow when they say "I'm a bicyclist too, but..."
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10-02-23, 01:34 PM
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Given that at the moment the success rate, including unmentioned contacts, is less than 50%, I still need to work on this. I was happy several decades ago when I was responsible for many traffic-related aspects of the local MS 150 out to Parker that we were able to get DPS (highway patrol) to change from seeing bicyclists from slow meaty nuisances to legal road users.
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10-02-23, 01:50 PM
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It appears that we have some posters who like to use hyperbolic rhetoric and gross stereotyping to describe US vs THEM.
It is called the english language. Yes I like to express myself with a point in mind. The individual that acted out was showing hostility and this is less acceptable than me expressing my opinions. I detest weakness that leads to death. I will not escalate a situation with a motorist. I will also not tolerate either.
10-02-23, 01:56 PM
#83
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RCM, that is a valid examination of the different types of potential collision. I would be interested to attend such a talk. As far as riding consistently to the right goes, if there is no green arrow for me to refer to after the red light ends, and all that is available is a green light, I will just keep looking behind me, and wait as long as it takes for the line of cars taking a right to pass, and the way forward is both clear and safe. I see no potential difficulty in this, unless. of course, the rider has a neck or spinal problem that prevents them from turning 180 degrees to look behind her (in this scenario, I would probably not want to rely on a mirror to assess the situation from behind.
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10-02-23, 02:06 PM
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Given that at the moment the success rate, including unmentioned contacts, is less than 50%, I still need to work on this. I was happy several decades ago when I was responsible for many traffic-related aspects of the local MS 150 out to Parker that we were able to get DPS (highway patrol) to change from seeing bicyclists from slow meaty nuisances to legal road users.
10-02-23, 02:11 PM
#85
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Rick,
Your confrontational style of riding, as I can assume from your comments, endangers us all by provoking motorists. Someone could see you riding in the automobile lanes and at a later date, be drunk or just angry, and take me out, even though I am riding responsibly to the right. This is why I feel so strongly about maintaining a sense of order and predictability while riding. I honestly hope you ride like you SAY you ride.
Your confrontational style of riding, as I can assume from your comments, endangers us all by provoking motorists. Someone could see you riding in the automobile lanes and at a later date, be drunk or just angry, and take me out, even though I am riding responsibly to the right. This is why I feel so strongly about maintaining a sense of order and predictability while riding. I honestly hope you ride like you SAY you ride.
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10-02-23, 02:14 PM
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RCM, that is a valid examination of the different types of potential collision. I would be interested to attend such a talk. As far as riding consistently to the right goes, if there is no green arrow for me to refer to after the red light ends, and all that is available is a green light, I will just keep looking behind me, and wait as long as it takes for the line of cars taking a right to pass, and the way forward is both clear and safe. I see no potential difficulty in this, unless. of course, the rider has a neck or spinal problem that prevents them from turning 180 degrees to look behind her (in this scenario, I would probably not want to rely on a mirror to assess the situation from behind.
For more information on traffic cycling skills class content, try these two links for a start:
LAB Smart Cycling: https://learn.bikeleague.org/
Cycling Savvy: https://cyclingsavvy.org/articles/
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10-02-23, 02:21 PM
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I looked over and asked WTF he was doing. To my surprise, he rolled down his window and explained that he was going to take a right. There was some traffic on Airline, so I was hoping that none of them would turn down Houma. I'd end up being the sacrificial lamb on that scenario. I asked WTF he would do if I was in a car. He sat there crossed eyed, drooling and dumbfounded. I told the idiot to get behind me and I'd scoot a little left to give him room to take a right. I almost always do that when I know that someone is turning.
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10-02-23, 03:50 PM
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Riding mid-lane is the mitigation tactic recommended for avoiding a right hook.
https://bicyclesafe.com/
https://bicyclesafe.com/
10-02-23, 06:09 PM
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I don't steadfastly take the lane and maintain it. My position is situational. On this road, while crossing the intersection, mid lane is my best bet for being seen, being treated as traffic, not being sideswiped and not being right hooked. Further down the road, it's easy to scoot far right and let cars come by.
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10-02-23, 07:21 PM
#90
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I agree that we agree, no disputing respectful protocols when in traffic.
I'm new to returning to two-wheel transport, it'd been over a decade since I did any amount of riding. Back then it was on MUPS instead of public thoroughfares, which would have been suicidal back where I used to live. Bad enough was the broken glass and gangs of cyclist not staying to their side as opposing traffic (me) approached. I took the verge more than once before giving up traversing some segments as too risky.
10-03-23, 12:25 AM
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And here again my favorite VC comeuppance video. LOL.
Actually here, there's MORE cyclists than ever. All ages, all kinds bikes.
How many ride VC?? .0001%.
How many drivers here are inconsiderate? .0001%. SEE how that works??
The only thing the OP demonstrated is Green Box strategy and No turn on red IDEOLOGY. It solves NOTHING.
How many ride VC?? .0001%.
How many drivers here are inconsiderate? .0001%. SEE how that works??
The only thing the OP demonstrated is Green Box strategy and No turn on red IDEOLOGY. It solves NOTHING.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 10-03-23 at 12:33 AM.
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10-03-23, 07:30 AM
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And here again my favorite VC comeuppance video. LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7AVC1YCcO0
Actually here, there's MORE cyclists than ever. All ages, all kinds bikes.
How many ride VC?? .0001%.
How many drivers here are inconsiderate? .0001%. SEE how that works??
The only thing the OP demonstrated is Green Box strategy and No turn on red IDEOLOGY. It solves NOTHING.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7AVC1YCcO0
Actually here, there's MORE cyclists than ever. All ages, all kinds bikes.
How many ride VC?? .0001%.
How many drivers here are inconsiderate? .0001%. SEE how that works??
The only thing the OP demonstrated is Green Box strategy and No turn on red IDEOLOGY. It solves NOTHING.
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10-03-23, 08:27 AM
#94
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I would not have wanted to be where that rider was, but I'll allow the possibility that he may have ended up on the main road by accident. He seemed like he was riding at an almost panicked pace.
10-03-23, 12:58 PM
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There are other ways of preventing right hooks besides taking a lane....Taking a lane may prevent a right hook but it may get you rear ended, run over or get you into a road rage incident....I am not completely against taking a lane. I've been riding long enough to know that sometimes there are situations where taking a lane makes perfect sense. I use my own judgment, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's always a smart thing to do or a safe thing to do.
Even as kids if we were first to a stop sign or stop light we were in the lane. Usually then we were a big group. So more visible and certainly no one wants to be guilty of splattering kids all over the road. At least not back then.
On my ride I just finished, I came off the bike path at a intersection and took the lane so I could go straight across and be on the road back to my sub-division. All the cars that got behind me seemed okay with it. When the light turned green I was across the 4 lane road before the car next to me even got out of the starting blocks. Since both lanes can turn left also, I bet the car that would have been behind me but moved over behind the other car was a little PO'd that they changed lanes.
In this case, being in the middle of the lane ensures I don't get squeezed off the road by the car behind me passing as we get to the other side where it's more narrow than you think and broken asphalt on the edge. I usually move to the right after I get beyond were the picture ends.
Last edited by Iride01; 10-03-23 at 01:05 PM.
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10-03-23, 01:02 PM
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Rick,
Your confrontational style of riding, as I can assume from your comments, endangers us all by provoking motorists.
Your confrontational style of riding, as I can assume from your comments, endangers us all by provoking motorists.
Someone could see you riding in the automobile lanes and at a later date, be drunk or just angry, and take me out, even though I am riding responsibly to the right. This is why I feel so strongly about maintaining a sense of order and predictability while riding. I honestly hope you ride like you SAY you ride.
Last edited by Rick; 10-03-23 at 01:06 PM.
10-03-23, 01:02 PM
#98
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This is why I don't live in any of the various concrete jungles in this country. Life is more peaceful in a town of ~10k
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10-04-23, 07:32 AM
#100
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