Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

What Is Wrong With People?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

What Is Wrong With People?

Old 10-04-23, 09:58 AM
  #101  
Full Member
 
SW84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Pasco,WA
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 118 Times in 78 Posts
When I took driver's ed in 1971 I was taught to drive defensibly. Now that I'm back to riding a bike 50+ years later, I ride defensibly. I use the crosswalk if there is one. If there isn't one I stay as far right as I can get, as long as it's paved. If there's no bike lane, then it's the sidewalk for me. I guess I'm a coward when it comes to competing with very heavy things that move fast, and are driven by idiots.

Btw I'm enjoying your thread Mr. B.
SW84 is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 10:20 AM
  #102  
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,472

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5976 Post(s)
Liked 4,600 Times in 3,176 Posts
If you move to the right, use a sidewalk or otherwise try to stay out of the way, I'm not sure that's being defensive. If so, then why not do the same when you are in your car?

But it's a choice. And in some places maybe a valid and sensible choice. But it's not for my conditions I ride in here. I can be defensive and ride in the middle of my lane for times it's needed.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 10-04-23, 04:58 PM
  #103  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,196
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4178 Post(s)
Liked 1,284 Times in 891 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
If you move to the right, use a sidewalk or otherwise try to stay out of the way, I'm not sure that's being defensive.
Seems like any action the cyclist can take to keep safe is included.

https://www.progressive.com/answers/...nsive-driving/

Defensive drivers use techniques that reduce their risk of a crash by remaining alert, being prepared for the unexpected, and controlling what they can.
Originally Posted by Iride01
If so, then why not do the same when you are in your car?
If there's an oncoming car crossing into your lane, wouldn't you consider moving to the right even if you are driving?

There's no requirement that the defensive actions you'd take on a bicycle have to be the same as the ones you'd take in a car.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 05:38 AM
  #104  
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,198

Bikes: ...a few.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2009 Post(s)
Liked 405 Times in 231 Posts
VC has its time and place, I agree. But I have to say that riding on a 2x2 lane busy road, with a limit of probably 50-60 kph, and taking the middle of the lane for any length of time is extremely stressful for me. I've done it. I've hated every minute of it, and invariably I push harder on the pedal to get through the section as fast as I can, foolishly thinking that riding at 35 kph as opposed to a leisurely 27 kph would make any difference to motorist zipping by me. Unless I am riding with a large group, I will avoid this situation by taking an alternative, but usually longer, way around it.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 05:48 AM
  #105  
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,198

Bikes: ...a few.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2009 Post(s)
Liked 405 Times in 231 Posts
A 1-km stretch of road on my commute is just as I described. Going to work, it's slightly uphill, perhaps 1% grade, semi-dark, lots of traffic., and certain times of the year the sun is right in front of me. I don't bother going on the road. I'll just stay on the sidewalk and ride leisurely till I turn off onto a park trail. Coming home, however, I will take the road--there's light which has a pedestrian crossing, and you get about a 35-second green light, which I treat like a 35-second head start on traffic. So I take the lane on the road, and with the 1% downhill, I am usually able to get through the 1-km section before traffic catches up to me.

We all have to do whatever we need to do to ensure our own safety. You cannot trust your safety to drivers.
mcours2006 is offline  
Likes For mcours2006:
Old 10-05-23, 08:11 AM
  #106  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,812
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1590 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,009 Times in 567 Posts
Originally Posted by mcours2006
VC has its time and place, I agree. But I have to say that riding on a 2x2 lane busy road, with a limit of probably 50-60 kph, and taking the middle of the lane for any length of time is extremely stressful for me.
I agree with that. I try to avoid the roads where it's necessary to take the lane with higher speed traffic. But I usually take the lane through intersections, moving back to the right once it is safe and prudent to do so. Which is the subject of this thread.
jon c. is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 08:39 AM
  #107  
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,472

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5976 Post(s)
Liked 4,600 Times in 3,176 Posts
njkayaker I think we agree on what the definition of defensive driving is.

And this you posted seems to sum it up fairly well.
What is a defensive driver?
Defensive drivers use techniques that reduce their risk of a crash by remaining alert, being prepared for the unexpected, and controlling what they can.
https://www.progressive.com/answers/...nsive-driving/
​​​​​​​I ride my bike defensively. Not timidly.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 08:57 AM
  #108  
Full Member
 
spclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: "Driftless" WI
Posts: 361

Bikes: 1972 Motobecane Grand Record, 2022 Kona Dew+

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 101 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
njkayaker I ride my bike defensively. Not timidly.
As do I. Seems like a reasonable approach to self-preservation.

Risk-aversion is a big part of situational awareness, the two go hand in hand.
spclark is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 09:17 AM
  #109  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,196
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4178 Post(s)
Liked 1,284 Times in 891 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
Originally Posted by Iride01
If you move to the right, use a sidewalk or otherwise try to stay out of the way, I'm not sure that's being defensive.
I ride my bike defensively. Not timidly.
I avoided a head-on collision with a car crossing from the opposite lane by riding off of the road. It sounds like you'd consider that as riding "timidly".

I'm not saying people should ride "timidly" but they also need to do whatever they think will keep them safe. Not whatever you happen to approve of.

If a newer rider comes across a situation that they see as overwhelming, taking an easier way is "defensive driving". Calling this "timid" is arrogant.

Last edited by njkayaker; 10-05-23 at 09:29 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Likes For njkayaker:
Old 10-05-23, 09:57 AM
  #110  
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,472

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5976 Post(s)
Liked 4,600 Times in 3,176 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
I avoided a head-on collision with a car crossing from the opposite lane by riding off of the road. It sounds like you'd consider that as riding "timidly".
Now you are being silly!

I have cars coming the other way on a two lane road passing the car in front of them. I'm ready to leave the road if they don't get back over in time. It's a regular occurrence that happens many times when I ride on the Natchez Trace. If I wasn't planning for what to do if the car doesn't get over, I wouldn't be riding defensively. I'm even ready for the oncoming cars behind other that might pull out to pass at the last moment not seeing me.

I'm not saying people should ride "timidly" but they also need to do whatever they think will keep them safe. Not whatever you happen to approve of.
I don't try to assume that riding conditions are the same everywhere. Many here seem to be telling the OP that he shouldn't have been in the lane at a stop light that they got to first. So they don't get any grief from you when they say we all should do the same as they believe?

If a newer rider comes across a situation that they see as overwhelming, taking an easier way is "defensive driving". Calling this "timid" is arrogant.
Possibly I am arrogant! However it serves no purpose to call the behavior the right thing for all to do. No matter how I worded it with lengthy more caring words it would still have been arrogant to suggest that with more experience, some will find interaction with motor vehicles less troubling.

Last edited by Iride01; 10-05-23 at 10:01 AM.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 10:01 AM
  #111  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,196
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4178 Post(s)
Liked 1,284 Times in 891 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
So they don't get any grief from you when they say we all should do the same as they believe?
You are supposed to know better.

Originally Posted by Iride01
However it serves no purpose to call the behavior the right thing for all to do.
You don't know whether something is "the right thing for all to do". What is the "right thing" is going to be different for different people (based on experience and such) and the situation.

Last edited by njkayaker; 10-05-23 at 10:05 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 10:02 AM
  #112  
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,472

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5976 Post(s)
Liked 4,600 Times in 3,176 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
You are supposed to know better.
I don't get to state my opinion?
Iride01 is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 10:09 AM
  #113  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,196
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4178 Post(s)
Liked 1,284 Times in 891 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
I don't get to state my opinion?
You got to state it. Nothing prevented you from that. But nothing prevents other people from commenting on it.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 10:21 AM
  #114  
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,472

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5976 Post(s)
Liked 4,600 Times in 3,176 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
You got to state it. Nothing prevented you from that. But nothing prevents other people from commenting on it.
That's true.

Especially between two that want to have the last word between each other!
Iride01 is offline  
Old 10-05-23, 10:34 AM
  #115  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,196
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4178 Post(s)
Liked 1,284 Times in 891 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
Especially between two that want to have the last word between each other!
Nice change from the "damned it you do; damned if you don't" thing that some use to try to intimidate people to shut up.
njkayaker is offline  
Likes For njkayaker:
Old 10-17-23, 06:26 AM
  #116  
For The Fun of It
Thread Starter
 
Paul Barnard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,830

Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2118 Post(s)
Liked 1,625 Times in 816 Posts
Someone is trying to run up a post count.
Paul Barnard is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.