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Moved to Greenville, SC. Follow-up report on cycling road conditions.

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Moved to Greenville, SC. Follow-up report on cycling road conditions.

Old 04-10-24, 07:12 PM
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Moved to Greenville, SC. Follow-up report on cycling road conditions.

Follow-up to a previous post from roughly 10 months ago. (Original Thread)

I just moved to Greenville, SC from New Orleans, LA. From a city that is virtually 100% bike-able on roadways to a city that is nearly impossible to ride (and survive) on roadways. After three weeks here under the most beautiful weather, 10 months of studying Strava Heat Maps of Greenville area, and countless hours on Google Earth, now I have actual "boots" on the ground and it is far worst than I expected. There are nearly ZERO recreational cyclists here outside of some beautiful Rail-Trails which, sadly, concentrates every person who rides bikes. Two reasons for this:

1: Super busy, narrow, hilly, blind curves roadways with every kind of wide truck and trailer and auto. Everybody speeds. There is not one inch to spare on any paved surface. I've toured across the USA 5 times so I am not shrinking violet on roadways. It's bad.

2: Nothing is flat. Nothing. Maybe some parking lots, and the inside of my house. It is easy to find 8% grades, 6-7% at all times. Most "average" cyclists cannot ride that. I see a few ppl in "lesser-than" neighborhoods pushing their bikes but not many. At least they aren't walking down the hills as well, right?

There is a small number of pro, ex-pro, and wanna-be pro roadies riding country roads around here. Almost never a lone rider. Groups have more of a "presence" so I get that. And those riders are doing 20+ mph average so they aren't exposed as long as someone averaging 7-10 and pushing bikes up hills. I've been exclusively riding my Surly Lowside 1x1 and have not pushed up a hill yet, but many hills have maxed me out. One in particular I had to stop and let my heart-rate relax a bit. Beach cruisers and "grandma" bikes, Townies, etc and people who never get their butts off the saddle have no hope of getting 1/4 mile down any road. This is why the Rail-Trails are PACKED at peak times and good weather.

The good news for me: There are several beautiful Rail-Trails to hit off hours. Many, many off road trails in and very near the city. Sadly, I am relegated to DRIVING my bike(s) somewhere to ride them. After 30 years car-free NOLA, this is quite an adjustment for me. Thankfully my development has about 5 miles of roads in the development with no traffic (just local) and great training for these hills. I leave my driveway and immediately go up 7% grade for 1/2 mile! It still beats my smart trainer in the house. The trails here are beautiful! This place does not get hurricanes!

Sometimes "Bike Safety" involves a decision to NOT ride in certain places. Even the pro riders who train here limit their routes to a network of cow pastures - old farm to market roads, and mountainous state parks at off hours. I shall follow their lead NOT cycling most of the roadways here. My road bike days are in the past so I will not be joining them, even if I could keep up.

Rock On everybody! Keep the rubber side down. I survived the mean streets of New Orleans. Many here thought I wouldn't. Time to hit some trails and try not to break my neck doing that! Or die in a car crash driving to the danged trails.

"Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD" - Me.

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Old 04-10-24, 08:05 PM
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I've been there on business. Indeed not much going on cycling wise.

I find "wannabe pros" an odd comment. Even the Cat 1,2,3 racers I know don't expect to become professional racers, they are engineers and machinists and such who like to compete. If you just mean people dressed in lycra on drop bar road bikes riding hard, that's just a form of recreational cyclist. Maybe not pertinent to the topic of Greenville cycling culture, but than again maybe it is. If you're looking for camaraderie, they might be friendlier than you expect. Unless you call them wannabe pros. Opponents to cycling would certainly be happy to see divide and conquer is working.

Having said that, I wouldn't live there. Active lifestyles isn't really a thing, and the pull of local culture is strong.
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Old 04-10-24, 08:48 PM
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Off hours is risky on the trails unless you don't have a need to utilize the parking lot.
in my state, all recreational parking areas are restricted to dawn to dusk use only... same for the use of the trails. Ticketing is enforced.
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Old 04-10-24, 10:12 PM
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Geeze. Move to north Idaho. You can B+B $200 a nite.
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Old 04-11-24, 05:28 AM
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There is actually a strong recreational cycling community in Greenville. It's not unusual for folks moving from flat lands to be intimidated by hills but don't be discouraged. Keep at it and you'll learn to pace yourself, be able to ride wherever you want. I do agree that traffic is bad and a lone cyclist is undoubtedly safer on a trail. Maybe check with some shops if you want to hook up with a group.
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Old 04-11-24, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
There is actually a strong recreational cycling community in Greenville. It's not unusual for folks moving from flat lands to be intimidated by hills but don't be discouraged. Keep at it and you'll learn to pace yourself, be able to ride wherever you want. I do agree that traffic is bad and a lone cyclist is undoubtedly safer on a trail. Maybe check with some shops if you want to hook up with a group.
Ive biked up the spine of the Rockies to Canada, paralleled the Appalachian Trail Georgia to Maine, down the entire Cali Coast, crossed the Cascades, Sawtooths, and countless others with loaded touring bikes. I am comfortable in any terrain. Hills are better than flats for me because I don't have to pedal ALL the time!

Good idea with the groups but I am def not a group guy. I tried the Giro training rides in NOLA a few times. I'm slower than the "A" group and faster than the "B" group. So I was riding by myself anyway and getting up way to early for that privilege. I go when I want, where I want, as hard (or easy) as I want. And I don't have to listen to a bunch of jibber-jabber during warm up and cool down. I'm more of a touring/commuting cyclist. I use my bikes like most use their cars. Work, errands, vacation travel. Dual benefit - I don't need an expensive gym membership to stay fit - it's automatic!

If I can ever get over the LOATHING of strapping my bike to a car I'll be fine. It puts me in a foul mood starting and finishing every ride. Considering therapy (drugs)

Originally Posted by Troul
Off hours is risky on the trails unless you don't have a need to utilize the parking lot.
in my state, all recreational parking areas are restricted to dawn to dusk use only... same for the use of the trails. Ticketing is enforced.
"Off hours" meaning middle of the day on weekdays when most people are at work or school. Also rainy or frigid weekends work for me. I go through anything but severe weather or ice. Also the main trail here (Swamp Rabbit) runs straight through Downtown Greenville. Many legit parking lots for nighttime.

Thanks for the input! Cheers All!

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Old 04-11-24, 06:34 AM
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Yeah, not a lot of cyclists there in Greenville.
Home - The Greenville Spinners Bicycle Club


I have a funny feeling I know why you ride solo so much.

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Old 04-11-24, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
Yeah, not a lot of cyclists there in Greenville.
Home - The Greenville Spinners Bicycle Club


I have a funny feeling I know why you ride solo so much.
600 Spinners members. How many are active riders? How many show up REGULARLY for club rides? 20? Less? Maybe 50 during the TDF broadcasts?

New Orleans bike share alone has 500 bikes in it's fleet. According to bikeleague.org New Orleans has 5900 commuters. That's 3.3% of the population COMMUTING. Regular people with minimal skills and strength riding to work, grocery, gym, whatever, from their front door. God only knows how many people ride bikes for fun all over the city who have near zero skills. All ages. 5 - 95 yo.

I'm not here to beat up on Greenville. It's an awesome place. I moved here regardless of it being a boneyard for "regular" cycling. I agree it is a great training ground for roadies who race or dream that they could. Or used to race. Or pretend to race. They drive their cars to the meeting place with bikes hanging on their motor vehicles. They drive their cars to the off road trails. They drive their cars to the Rail-Trails, unless they are lucky enough to live pretty close to the trails. Hey...I'm one of them now! We all drive our bikes to the cycling destination because we want to live to ride again.

My observation, which is why I posted here, is that "regular" people do not cycle here on roadways. Even if they had the fortitude to launch out onto city (and surrounding) streets they CAN'T do it physically. So they go to the Rail-Trails where grades are "railroad mild" and dualie F350 free. Children can't even ride in my neighborhood full of 7% grades. Wide, new, perfect streets with curbside parking forbidden by the neighborhood association. I can ride 5 miles without hitting the same street twice. 350 homes. NO ONE rides here besides me. At least I've never seen them during the 4 weeks I've been here. I don't believe a child could physically ride a kids bike up their own driveway.

Cycling notwithstanding, I'm loving my new city. Cycling is not my main passion, cycling is transportation. If I can't be a utilitarian cyclist I'll do something else. I'll drive my car to the trails like everybody else. Just don't give me this "Cycling Utopia" nonsense. I lived in a Cycling Utopia -FOR EVERYBODY- for 66 years. I know what that looks like. And this ain't it.

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Old 04-11-24, 09:15 PM
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I have a friend who lives there. Fellow motorcyclist. Would like to bicycle to stay in shape but, like you said, the roads aren't inviting for folks like him. He meets friends at the rail trail, but because of the logistics probably doesn't do it as often if the cycling was outside his door
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Old 04-12-24, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
600 Spinners members. How many are active riders? How many show up REGULARLY for club rides? 20? Less? Maybe 50 during the TDF broadcasts?
I think you'll find that most clubs, whether it's cycling, car, running, etc. all have similar "active" vs "member" rosters. I'm not a Spinners member (I live north of Greenville, belong to a different club) but I know they have decent turnouts for club rides, as does my club. Do you really think 600 riders are going to show up for a club ride?

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I'm not here to beat up on Greenville. It's an awesome place. I moved here regardless of it being a boneyard for "regular" cycling. I agree it is a great training ground for roadies who race or dream that they could. Or used to race. Or pretend to race. They drive their cars to the meeting place with bikes hanging on their motor vehicles. They drive their cars to the off road trails. They drive their cars to the Rail-Trails, unless they are lucky enough to live pretty close to the trails. Hey...I'm one of them now! We all drive our bikes to the cycling destination because we want to live to ride again.

My observation, which is why I posted here, is that "regular" people do not cycle here on roadways. Even if they had the fortitude to launch out onto city (and surrounding) streets they CAN'T do it physically. So they go to the Rail-Trails where grades are "railroad mild" and dualie F350 free. Children can't even ride in my neighborhood full of 7% grades. Wide, new, perfect streets with curbside parking forbidden by the neighborhood association. I can ride 5 miles without hitting the same street twice. 350 homes. NO ONE rides here besides me. At least I've never seen them during the 4 weeks I've been here. I don't believe a child could physically ride a kids bike up their own driveway.
You seem to have an issue with anyone that rides a drop bar road bike, wears a Lycra 'kit', and transports their bike to a ride start, calling them roadies who race or dream that they could. Or used to race. Or pretend to race. Get over yourself. The logistics of planning a club ride that would start in an area where every participant could ride to the start is almost impossible. Your example of 600 club members doesn't mean they all live within a short distance of each other. Want to ride 20 miles to join up with a group for a 40 mile ride after work, then ride 20 miles home again before it gets too dark? Yeah, I don't, which is why I have a bike rack on my vehicle.

Your argument that "regular people" can't ride because of the hills in the area is ridiculous. They can't ride the hills because they DON'T ride the hills. The Swamp Rabbit Trail is there for those that want a leisurely ride with the family on a Saturday without doing any hard climbs. Nothing wrong with that.

You've expressed your fears of riding in an area with lots of vehicles and narrow roads before in several other posts. I grew up riding in the Metro Boston area. Believe me, 99.9% of the drivers here are a lot more patient and respectful of cyclists on the roadways. (The other 0.1% includes the guy that clipped me on a Sunday morning with ZERO traffic, on a wide, flat stretch of road. He was on his cellphone. That could happen anywhere nowadays.)

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Cycling notwithstanding, I'm loving my new city. Cycling is not my main passion, cycling is transportation. If I can't be a utilitarian cyclist I'll do something else. I'll drive my car to the trails like everybody else. Just don't give me this "Cycling Utopia" nonsense. I lived in a Cycling Utopia -FOR EVERYBODY- for 66 years. I know what that looks like. And this ain't it.
I never claimed the area was a "Cycling Utopia". I think the vast majority of metropolitan areas in this country aren't. I'm happy with "Share The Road" until planners decide to upgrade the infrastructure in cities to better accommodate alternative modes of transport, including cycling. I do know that Greenville has a very good public transportation system. Maybe you should try it?
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Old 04-12-24, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
I do know that Greenville has a very good public transportation system. Maybe you should try it?
Trolley system is designed for tourists. Bus system is pretty basic and OK if you live in the city center. Sparse if you live within 5 miles of the city center. Nonexistent if you are more than 5 miles out with maybe two exceptions. From my house, 9 miles south of the Amtrak station, the GVL "taxi" company wanted $70US to pick me up and take me there. If you don't own a car in Greenville County, with the exception of the very expensive city center, you better have a car or motorcycle or you are going nowhere.

From my observations, and others who live here, there are no "cyclists" in Greenville. We are all motorists who ride bikes sometimes. "Cyclists" IMO are people who are committed to cycling and maybe drive a car occasionally. Or never. No matter how flashy your kit may be, when you are driving your car wearing said kit, you are a motorist by definition. Peace!

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Old 04-12-24, 09:21 AM
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I find the whole tenor of this conversation (from the Trucks on Narrow, Twisting Roads thread to this one) curious, particularly here in Advocacy & Safety.

To paraphrase:

JoeyBike : The roads down here seem unsafe
The collective wisdom of BF: You're probably doing it wrong.

A quick Google search:

South Carolina 5th most dangerous state for bicyclist, research says
https://www.foxcarolina.com/2022/05/...research-says/

For local cyclists, hazardous roadways are ‘a matter of life and death’
https://greenvillejournal.com/commun...ife-and-death/

In Memorium: Pedestrians and Bicyclists in Greenville County
https://bikewalkgreenville.org/2023/...nville-county/

If we as cyclists have trouble recognizing that a fellow cyclist feeling unsafe on a road may have everything to do with the road itself and not their ability as a cyclist, how can we expect the public at large to recognize the dangers of our car-centric infrastructure to people not in cars?
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Old 04-12-24, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by john m flores

JoeyBike : The roads down here seem unsafe
The collective wisdom of BF: You're probably doing it wrong.
Thanks for the research. Those "death maps" are quite helpful, not that I planned to ride those miserable roads anyway.

As for the statistics I would like to make one observation. A place like New Orleans where virtually everybody rides bikes, mostly on roadways, would be expected to have relatively high numbers of dead cyclists killed by motor vehicles. Places like Greenville where I rarely see a cyclist, other than on sidewalks, would be expected to have a relatively LOW number of fatalities. Yet, SC is ranked near the top (5th). Louisiana has more cycling deaths (ranked 3rd) largely because New Orleans and Baton Rouge, as well as others, have very large commuter and rec cyclist populations riding on roadways.

Statistics can be deceiving but I am not surprised to see Louisiana and South Carolina near the worst of the worst in cycling fatalities even though I believe they achieve those rankings differently.

Cheers!
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Old 04-12-24, 08:23 PM
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Just for some perspective on what a "Bicycle Utopia" looks like. No this is not Amsterdam or China. I dug up this old pic i took at the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival bike parking ONE OF THREE bike parking lots all filled to the limit. A far cry from a couple dozen roadies meeting up a few times a month to ride lonely country roads. I certainly did not move to SC for improved bike culture. Many of these bikes are either rentals or bikes locals only ride to festivals because traffic and parking is a huge rat f*** and $$$. The bike shop where I worked for a decade rented 300 bikes both Jazz Fest weekends to mostly people from all over the country who never ride a bike except to Jazz Fest in NOLA. The rest of the bikes are locals who are car free or car light. It's flat as a pancake. ANYONE can ride a bike wherever they please. That is Utopia


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Old 04-13-24, 05:31 AM
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I wonder how big the parking lot would have to be to replace all those bikes with cars


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Old 04-13-24, 05:13 PM
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Everything is relative. To me, the area surrounding Greenville is pretty great. Last week, I did the Assault on the Carolinas. Starts in Brevard NC and loops into SC near Greenville. Great ride.

The Hincapie Gran Fondo starts in Travelers Rest, just north of Greenville. Great ride. There are a number of great rides looping around Travelers Rest.

The US Pro cycling championship for a number of years started and finished in Greenville.

Tiny bit north, Tryon is horse country with great rolling country roads.

I guess it’s all perspective, but there does appear to be a reason that Christian Van de Velde, Brooke Bockwalder and others have chosen to locate there, when they could pretty much pick anywhere.
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Old 04-13-24, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I wonder how big the parking lot would have to be to replace all those bikes with cars

And how many people take Uber, Lyft, Taxi cabs, bike taxis, and an army of busses that just shuttle people both ways. Still, people who drive might have to park and walk over 2 miles to the Fest, then try to find their cars while drunk and unbelievably sunburned.
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Old 04-13-24, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
I guess it’s all perspective, but there does appear to be a reason that Christian Van de Velde, Brooke Bockwalder and others have chosen to locate there, when they could pretty much pick anywhere.
As I said in both related threads, it's a GREAT training ground for Pro cyclists. If I could hold 25+ mph averages in terrain full of 6-10% grades (I follow some local pros on Strava) I might venture out onto narrow 35-45 mph roads with terrible sight lines also. I would be delighted to average 15 mph. Big difference in how many vehicles would overtake me vs. pro riders. Worst part for me would be cycling UP long, steep grades at walking speed. Sure I could do that. Might as well just snap a lawn chair out on the fog line and make my peace with God.

How many pro riders who live in Greenville actually grew up in Greenville? I bet a paycheck that number is ZERO, because as children they could never ride anywhere here.
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Old 04-14-24, 01:17 AM
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You are certainly correct in your observations that YOU CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, Press Your Luck, AND JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO (and you are legally allowed to ride such high traffic streets).

****Unwritten Rules of The Road in The Deep South USA****
1) YOU MUST OWN AN AUTOMOBILE FOR DAILY TRANSPORTATION (alternatively you can choose a Motorcycle but that is a good way to end up Crippled, Disabled, or DEAD)
2) THE ROADS ARE BUILT EXCLUSIVELY FOR AUTOMOBILES, so there is no place for Bicycles, Mopeds, Scooters on congested, heavy traffic streets, roads, and highways. FIND ANOTHER ROUTE WITH LITTLE OR NO TRAFFIC, IF YOU MUST RIDE YOUR DAMN BIKE AS YOUR ONLY MEANS OF DAILY TRANSPORTATION. What's the problem anyway? A 3rd DUI conviction and you've lost your driver's license...............Had to many speeding tickets and accidents that your car insurance now costs more than your paycheck from Wendys can afford..................Your Chevrolet pickup needs a new transmission and the engine is barely any better with a rear main seal that is leaking...
3) LEFT LANE is the fast lane, NEVER BLOCK TRAFFIC FLOW, because if you're doin' 85 or 90mph and cars are lined up behind you, Get The Hell Over Into The RIGHT LANE. It does not matter that 70mph is the posted maximum speed limit, or that your 1996 Chevy S-10 can't do more than 86mph.....IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS, STAY ON THE PORCH.....which in Interstate highway lingo translates to "Slower Traffic MOVE TO THE RIGHT LANE".
4) WATCH OUT FOR THE OTHER GUY because he/she will be (One of the Following) : Speeding, Distracted, Texting, Eating, Buzzed-Drunk-High, Sleepy, Have No Insurance, Have No Driver's License, or Will Quickly Race Away From The Scene IF A Minor Accident Occurs...
5) BICYCLISTS, JOGGERS, PEDESTRIANS, SKATEBOARDERS, & SCOOTER/Moped Riders MUST ALWAYS remember unwritten rule number 2 is a quasi defacto law which cannot be overcome..........SEE 2) above..........You will DIE carrying forward with your hell bent plans to RIDE ANYWHERE THAT YOU ARE LEGALLY PERMITTED TO DO SO, because a 3500 pound automobile will certainly seriously injure and disable you, if it doesn't kill you, the 175pound idiot human being riding the 28 pound bicycle on streets/roadways that are too damn risky, but you had to be that idiot that pushes your luck and says screw it, ...I am within my legal right to ride these roads....They have a duty to share the roads with cyclists...................YEP, YOU MAY WANNA LET YOUR FAMILY KNOW TO HAVE THAT CARVED INTO YOUR GRAVESTONE.


Seriously, I don't like that it is the way it is, and that drivers don't give a hoot and aren't courteous as they should be, but you cannot challenge the laws of physics.
BE SAFE, RIDE WHERE IT IS SAFE. Do Not Try To Commute By Bicycle If The Route or Routes ARE NOT Safe Enough To Allow You To Do So At The Time That Wish To Cycle Them. This cannot be overstated. Do Not Push Your Luck, because you might be pushin' up daisies or spending the rest of your life in a motorized wheelchair.
Get an old, cheap but dependable car for daily transportation. One such example might be a $3500 to $4000 , 2007-2008 or 2009-2011 HONDA FIT with around 150k to 175k miles, and with One, to Three owners....obviously FROM A WARM STATE and not from the Frozen Tundra land because FITS have a known issue of ROAD SALT(sludge-brine buildup) SEVERELY RUSTING OUT THE DRIVE AXLES in worst case scenarios, they are weakened so much by being eaten up from massive corrosion that they can and do often snap (break).
Honda Fits are tiny but incredibly roomy with their useable interior space. They are inexpensive but extremely durable with an extremely low cost of ownership. 2008 was the year model that the largest number of Honda Fits were sold in North America. 2007 was the first year that they came to North America, although the car had been in Japan and elsewhere from 2001. The first generation models are the 2001 to 2008...............so in the USA, the 2007-2008 are the 1st generation. There is no difference in the engine between the BASE model and the SPORT model. The INTERIOR is exactly the same between 2008 base and sport . Seats and door panels are exactly the same. Sport model has cruise control and an Aux Input on the stereo. 2008 BASE MODEL does not have cruise control. Sport model has a higher watt Stereo with six speakers, while the BASE has the same CD Stereo with only 4 speakers, so less wattage, and no Aux Input.
The engine for 2008 is the same exact 109hp 1.5 liter four cylinder in both the BASE and SPORT.
Wheelbase and interior room is exactly the same between the BASE and the SPORT.
BASE model had 14 inch steel wheels with wheelcovers and the SPORT had 15 inch alloy wheels.
SPORT model has unique front air dam spoiler and rear spoiler, and the BASE model does not.
The SPORT model came factory equipped with a retractable cargo cover (essentially a roller shade that hides objects from view) , The BASE model does not have this.
Both the BASE model and the SPORT model have rear windshield wiper but only the SPORT has a rear windshield squirter to spray windshield washer fluid at the rear windshield.
The engine is exactly the same, and the 5 speed manual transmission is exactly the same, however the SPORT model AUTOMATIC has paddle shifters and a leather wrapped steering wheel. The SPORT model also has front fog lamps within its front bumper airdam, and the BASE model does not have front fog lamps.
AIR CONDITIONING controls and the 3 binnacle gauge cluster are the same between the 2008 Base model and the 2008 Sport model.
Horsepower is exactly the same at 109 horsepower for all the 2008 Honda Fits as there is no difference between the Base and the Sport in the engine bay.
I think the APRIL 2008 Consumer Reports issue featured the Honda Fit. It was their highest rated and most recommended car of all cars in any category at that point in time.
It was 100% Japanese content.
The Honda Fit DOES NOT HAVE A TIMING BELT, it has a timing chain which is specified by Honda that should last the life of the car....well beyond 250k....beyond 300k miles.
Anything you might want to know on these cars can be found on the fitfreaks DOT NET .....just Google fitfreaks.
An ancient 2008 Honda Fit is the least expensive, decent old, supremely reliable ancient used car that you can buy.
It isn't much but it can carry so much, and it won't cost you much in either gasoline, or cost to buy one, and you sure as hell won't be having any down time with it in the shop.
It seems that nobody wants something that small today as the price of gas is relatively cheap today ( historically, adjusted for inflation) at the April 2024 price of $3.75 per US gallon for 87 octane regular unleaded.
****************************************You Just Gotta Face It that In Most All of the Cities in The United States of America, That YOU MUST OWN A CAR unless you're living in poverty or/and on goverment assistance/Section 8 housing and doing your best to scrimp and save up until you do better your situation and can afford a reliable enough, old used car.
Yes, you can carpool and share rides with friends and family but you are often extremely limited by where and when you can go anywhere. Bus schedules aren't exactly punctual and it make take 55 minutes or longer, just one way on the local bus for something that can be travelled by car in just 12 minutes.
Ditto for trying to commute via bicycle if you must take a roundabout "long way" on safe roads..........You gotta ask yourself is it worth it to spend an hour commuting each way by bicycle in brutally hot, rainy, or cold weather. It is just beyond stupid!! Now, certainly, if you are close enough to your office, perhaps once in a while when the weather is great, it might be acceptable if you're within six miles or less.

GREENVILLE SC is a thriving, "happening city" . Yes, it has been shedding its racist southern attitudes for half a century. It is only recently been shedding the awful Pass The Loot, sleazy television "send money" sinister ministers that buy tv airtime on over-the-air tv stations at times such as 5 AM to 7Am when such program slots are inexpensive.
Like the old infamous 1978 song , "Far Away Eyes", except substitute radio station for tv station and substitute Anderson/Greenville/Spartanburg and/]or Rock Hill/Charlotte for the the Los Angeles location in that song that Mick sings so well.
The Spinners are a great group. I don't mean the Rubberband Man , band, the Spinners , although that was a great group too.
Facebook Post

You do have the Swamp Rabbit Trail there in Greenville and you have the Doodle Trail about 45min drive time away in PICKENS SC which is only about 25 miles west of Greenville SC, however because of stop and go traffic lights, getting there to Doodle Trail by automobile will take you 45 minutes, although it is only 25 miles away.
----Swamp Rabbit Trail---
https://www.greenvillesc.gov/316/Swamp-Rabbit-Trail
----Doodle Trail, PICKENS, SC ---
https://www.cityofpickens.com/doodle


YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO PERSONALLY CONTACT AND COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH A COUPLE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS of bikewalkgreenville.org.
Anderson, and at least another member of the board, will be able to tell you everything that you would ever want to know about cycling in Greenville, SC.
That info is priceless, and those cats will be more than happy to answer anything about cycling in Greenville, SC.
Reach out to them.
https://bikewalkgreenville.org/board

There is an event next week in Mocksville, NC which is about 2 1/2 hours north up I-85 about 25miles south of Winston-Salem.
https://nccyclingfestival.com/
https://nccyclingfestival.com/rides

If you want to ride FLAT LAND rides, you can get in the car and go to Charleston SC for a weekend getaway......you are about 3 hours and five minutes if you just drive the 70 mph posted speed limit on I-26 to Charleston. over the bridge from Charleston by car then on to Mount Pleasant , Sullivans Island and Isle of Palms are nice areas to ride, although during June, July, August, you will see a lot more cars.


Greenville SC
https://greenvillejournal.com/commun...cycling-mecca/
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...ad-less-eaten/




**On another distinctly Musical note, I don't guess that you're an old fossil, rocknroller, baby boomer like me, but for the benefit of other old foe-geeze who might be seeing this GREENVILLE SC thread, ****** JOHN FOGERTY with George Thorogood opening the show on the first SUNDAY in JUNE 2024 in GREENVILLE (the Simpsonville SC ....an outdoor amphitheater there) It is the first show on Fogerty's 2024 tour where bad ol' George joins the tour. IT WILL BE A NON STOP, ENERGETIC, UPBEAT, HIGH ENERGY, ROCK N ROLL SHOW as long as the weather is nice and there are no thunderstorms, which could be a possible threat at that time of year in the south.
Your grandparents and your parents will understand if you don't recognize either of those names. I already have great seats for that, as a friend bought four of them at the box office in Simpsonville SC on thursday on the way to their mountain house in North Carolina.....avoided ticketmaster fees and got paper tickets, but if cancelled, you can only redeem for refund the tickets in person at the box office there in Simpsonville and the box office is only open when its open.
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Old 04-14-24, 05:24 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn
You are certainly correct in your observations that YOU CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, Press Your Luck, AND JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO (and you are legally allowed to ride such high traffic streets).

****Unwritten Rules of The Road in The Deep South USA****
1) YOU MUST OWN AN AUTOMOBILE FOR DAILY TRANSPORTATION (alternatively you can choose a Motorcycle but that is a good way to end up Crippled, Disabled, or DEAD)
2) THE ROADS ARE BUILT EXCLUSIVELY FOR AUTOMOBILES, so there is no place for Bicycles, Mopeds, Scooters on congested, heavy traffic streets, roads, and highways. FIND ANOTHER ROUTE WITH LITTLE OR NO TRAFFIC, IF YOU MUST RIDE YOUR DAMN BIKE AS YOUR ONLY MEANS OF DAILY TRANSPORTATION. What's the problem anyway? A 3rd DUI conviction and you've lost your driver's license...............Had to many speeding tickets and accidents that your car insurance now costs more than your paycheck from Wendys can afford..................Your Chevrolet pickup needs a new transmission and the engine is barely any better with a rear main seal that is leaking...
3) LEFT LANE is the fast lane, NEVER BLOCK TRAFFIC FLOW, because if you're doin' 85 or 90mph and cars are lined up behind you, Get The Hell Over Into The RIGHT LANE. It does not matter that 70mph is the posted maximum speed limit, or that your 1996 Chevy S-10 can't do more than 86mph.....IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS, STAY ON THE PORCH.....which in Interstate highway lingo translates to "Slower Traffic MOVE TO THE RIGHT LANE".
4) WATCH OUT FOR THE OTHER GUY because he/she will be (One of the Following) : Speeding, Distracted, Texting, Eating, Buzzed-Drunk-High, Sleepy, Have No Insurance, Have No Driver's License, or Will Quickly Race Away From The Scene IF A Minor Accident Occurs...
5) BICYCLISTS, JOGGERS, PEDESTRIANS, SKATEBOARDERS, & SCOOTER/Moped Riders MUST ALWAYS remember unwritten rule number 2 is a quasi defacto law which cannot be overcome..........SEE 2) above..........You will DIE carrying forward with your hell bent plans to RIDE ANYWHERE THAT YOU ARE LEGALLY PERMITTED TO DO SO, because a 3500 pound automobile will certainly seriously injure and disable you, if it doesn't kill you, the 175pound idiot human being riding the 28 pound bicycle on streets/roadways that are too damn risky, but you had to be that idiot that pushes your luck and says screw it, ...I am within my legal right to ride these roads....They have a duty to share the roads with cyclists...................YEP, YOU MAY WANNA LET YOUR FAMILY KNOW TO HAVE THAT CARVED INTO YOUR GRAVESTONE.


Seriously, I don't like that it is the way it is, and that drivers don't give a hoot and aren't courteous as they should be, but you cannot challenge the laws of physics.
BE SAFE, RIDE WHERE IT IS SAFE. Do Not Try To Commute By Bicycle If The Route or Routes ARE NOT Safe Enough To Allow You To Do So At The Time That Wish To Cycle Them. This cannot be overstated. Do Not Push Your Luck, because you might be pushin' up daisies or spending the rest of your life in a motorized wheelchair.
Get an old, cheap but dependable car for daily transportation. One such example might be a $3500 to $4000 , 2007-2008 or 2009-2011 HONDA FIT with around 150k to 175k miles, and with One, to Three owners....obviously FROM A WARM STATE and not from the Frozen Tundra land because FITS have a known issue of ROAD SALT(sludge-brine buildup) SEVERELY RUSTING OUT THE DRIVE AXLES in worst case scenarios, they are weakened so much by being eaten up from massive corrosion that they can and do often snap (break).
Honda Fits are tiny but incredibly roomy with their useable interior space. They are inexpensive but extremely durable with an extremely low cost of ownership. 2008 was the year model that the largest number of Honda Fits were sold in North America. 2007 was the first year that they came to North America, although the car had been in Japan and elsewhere from 2001. The first generation models are the 2001 to 2008...............so in the USA, the 2007-2008 are the 1st generation. There is no difference in the engine between the BASE model and the SPORT model. The INTERIOR is exactly the same between 2008 base and sport . Seats and door panels are exactly the same. Sport model has cruise control and an Aux Input on the stereo. 2008 BASE MODEL does not have cruise control. Sport model has a higher watt Stereo with six speakers, while the BASE has the same CD Stereo with only 4 speakers, so less wattage, and no Aux Input.
The engine for 2008 is the same exact 109hp 1.5 liter four cylinder in both the BASE and SPORT.
Wheelbase and interior room is exactly the same between the BASE and the SPORT.
BASE model had 14 inch steel wheels with wheelcovers and the SPORT had 15 inch alloy wheels.
SPORT model has unique front air dam spoiler and rear spoiler, and the BASE model does not.
The SPORT model came factory equipped with a retractable cargo cover (essentially a roller shade that hides objects from view) , The BASE model does not have this.
Both the BASE model and the SPORT model have rear windshield wiper but only the SPORT has a rear windshield squirter to spray windshield washer fluid at the rear windshield.
The engine is exactly the same, and the 5 speed manual transmission is exactly the same, however the SPORT model AUTOMATIC has paddle shifters and a leather wrapped steering wheel. The SPORT model also has front fog lamps within its front bumper airdam, and the BASE model does not have front fog lamps.
AIR CONDITIONING controls and the 3 binnacle gauge cluster are the same between the 2008 Base model and the 2008 Sport model.
Horsepower is exactly the same at 109 horsepower for all the 2008 Honda Fits as there is no difference between the Base and the Sport in the engine bay.
I think the APRIL 2008 Consumer Reports issue featured the Honda Fit. It was their highest rated and most recommended car of all cars in any category at that point in time.
It was 100% Japanese content.
The Honda Fit DOES NOT HAVE A TIMING BELT, it has a timing chain which is specified by Honda that should last the life of the car....well beyond 250k....beyond 300k miles.
Anything you might want to know on these cars can be found on the fitfreaks DOT NET .....just Google fitfreaks.
An ancient 2008 Honda Fit is the least expensive, decent old, supremely reliable ancient used car that you can buy.
It isn't much but it can carry so much, and it won't cost you much in either gasoline, or cost to buy one, and you sure as hell won't be having any down time with it in the shop.
It seems that nobody wants something that small today as the price of gas is relatively cheap today ( historically, adjusted for inflation) at the April 2024 price of $3.75 per US gallon for 87 octane regular unleaded.
****************************************You Just Gotta Face It that In Most All of the Cities in The United States of America, That YOU MUST OWN A CAR unless you're living in poverty or/and on goverment assistance/Section 8 housing and doing your best to scrimp and save up until you do better your situation and can afford a reliable enough, old used car.
Yes, you can carpool and share rides with friends and family but you are often extremely limited by where and when you can go anywhere. Bus schedules aren't exactly punctual and it make take 55 minutes or longer, just one way on the local bus for something that can be travelled by car in just 12 minutes.
Ditto for trying to commute via bicycle if you must take a roundabout "long way" on safe roads..........You gotta ask yourself is it worth it to spend an hour commuting each way by bicycle in brutally hot, rainy, or cold weather. It is just beyond stupid!! Now, certainly, if you are close enough to your office, perhaps once in a while when the weather is great, it might be acceptable if you're within six miles or less.

GREENVILLE SC is a thriving, "happening city" . Yes, it has been shedding its racist southern attitudes for half a century. It is only recently been shedding the awful Pass The Loot, sleazy television "send money" sinister ministers that buy tv airtime on over-the-air tv stations at times such as 5 AM to 7Am when such program slots are inexpensive.
Like the old infamous 1978 song , "Far Away Eyes", except substitute radio station for tv station and substitute Anderson/Greenville/Spartanburg and/]or Rock Hill/Charlotte for the the Los Angeles location in that song that Mick sings so well.
The Spinners are a great group. I don't mean the Rubberband Man , band, the Spinners , although that was a great group too.
https://www.facebook.com/GreenvilleSpinners/

You do have the Swamp Rabbit Trail there in Greenville and you have the Doodle Trail about 45min drive time away in PICKENS SC which is only about 25 miles west of Greenville SC, however because of stop and go traffic lights, getting there to Doodle Trail by automobile will take you 45 minutes, although it is only 25 miles away.
----Swamp Rabbit Trail---
https://www.greenvillesc.gov/316/Swamp-Rabbit-Trail
----Doodle Trail, PICKENS, SC ---
https://www.cityofpickens.com/doodle


YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO PERSONALLY CONTACT AND COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH A COUPLE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS of bikewalkgreenville.org.
Anderson, and at least another member of the board, will be able to tell you everything that you would ever want to know about cycling in Greenville, SC.
That info is priceless, and those cats will be more than happy to answer anything about cycling in Greenville, SC.
Reach out to them.
https://bikewalkgreenville.org/board

There is an event next week in Mocksville, NC which is about 2 1/2 hours north up I-85 about 25miles south of Winston-Salem.
https://nccyclingfestival.com/
https://nccyclingfestival.com/rides

If you want to ride FLAT LAND rides, you can get in the car and go to Charleston SC for a weekend getaway......you are about 3 hours and five minutes if you just drive the 70 mph posted speed limit on I-26 to Charleston. over the bridge from Charleston by car then on to Mount Pleasant , Sullivans Island and Isle of Palms are nice areas to ride, although during June, July, August, you will see a lot more cars.


Greenville SC
https://greenvillejournal.com/commun...cycling-mecca/
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...ad-less-eaten/




**On another distinctly Musical note, I don't guess that you're an old fossil, rocknroller, baby boomer like me, but for the benefit of other old foe-geeze who might be seeing this GREENVILLE SC thread, ****** JOHN FOGERTY with George Thorogood opening the show on the first SUNDAY in JUNE 2024 in GREENVILLE (the Simpsonville SC ....an outdoor amphitheater there) It is the first show on Fogerty's 2024 tour where bad ol' George joins the tour. IT WILL BE A NON STOP, ENERGETIC, UPBEAT, HIGH ENERGY, ROCK N ROLL SHOW as long as the weather is nice and there are no thunderstorms, which could be a possible threat at that time of year in the south.
Your grandparents and your parents will understand if you don't recognize either of those names. I already have great seats for that, as a friend bought four of them at the box office in Simpsonville SC on thursday on the way to their mountain house in North Carolina.....avoided ticketmaster fees and got paper tickets, but if cancelled, you can only redeem for refund the tickets in person at the box office there in Simpsonville and the box office is only open when its open.
Good point! A friend is able to carry his bike in a Fit w/o removing a wheel.
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Old 04-14-24, 06:33 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
As I said in both related threads, it's a GREAT training ground for Pro cyclists. If I could hold 25+ mph averages in terrain full of 6-10% grades (I follow some local pros on Strava) I might venture out onto narrow 35-45 mph roads with terrible sight lines also. I would be delighted to average 15 mph. Big difference in how many vehicles would overtake me vs. pro riders. Worst part for me would be cycling UP long, steep grades at walking speed. Sure I could do that. Might as well just snap a lawn chair out on the fog line and make my peace with God.

How many pro riders who live in Greenville actually grew up in Greenville? I bet a paycheck that number is ZERO, because as children they could never ride anywhere here.
I’m far from a pro cyclist, and have thoroughly enjoyed riding around the upstate SC area. Never felt particularly unsafe there, other than the time I inadvertently got on US 25, and the shoulder I was riding ended. Doing organized rides in SC, I can tell you that thousands of people ride who are far from pro cyclists.

i think the OP’s perspective of cycling in Greenville is much different than many in the cycling community. There’s a good article in the Greenville Journal August 27, 2020 about Greenville”s cycling culture, improvements to bike infrastructure, and cyclists coming to Greenville as tourists and relocating there.

For some reason I can’t post links from my IPad, but simply google Greenville cycling Mecca, nd it definitely appears that the OP’s opinion is not shared my the majority of cyclists.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

Last edited by merlinextraligh; 04-14-24 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 04-14-24, 08:09 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
For some reason I can’t post links from my IPad, but simply google Greenville cycling Mecca, nd it definitely appears that the OP’s opinion is not shared my the majority of cyclists.
The cited article Greenville thrives as cycling mecca would lead a reader to assume that the "majority of cyclists" are pros and ex-pros satisfied with the "training" and mountain biking opportunities somewhere outside the city of Greenville and the business establishments that cater to their "culture."
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Old 04-14-24, 08:48 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
The cited article Greenville thrives as cycling mecca would lead a reader to assume that the "majority of cyclists" are pros and ex-pros satisfied with the "training" and mountain biking opportunities somewhere outside the city of Greenville and the business establishments that cater to their "culture."
I really don’t know how to say this more clearly. I’ve ridden around Greenville, and am by no mean a pro or ex pro rider. Thousands of recreational riders turn out for the cycling events in the Greenville area. I have multiple friends that come from Florida specifically to ride in the Greenville area.

There appear to be 3 people posting in this thread who have actually ridden in Greenville, the OP, Bald Paul, and myself. 2 out of 3 of us like it.

A major difference between us appears in the OP’s second bolded point: “Nothing is Flat. Nothing.” Thus if you detest hills, Greenville is not for you. But it is also what draws many cyclists to the area.

I understand that if you want a flat commute with protected infrastructure Greenville will not be your cup of tea, That said, I think the OP is being unfair to Greenville and is expressing a minority opinion. At a minimum it is grossly unfair, and readily disproved by simple observation to say there are no recreational cyclists in Greenville.

Heck, show me another area that has a 5 star hotel catering to cyclists.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

Last edited by merlinextraligh; 04-14-24 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 04-14-24, 09:12 AM
  #24  
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Also, I don’t know why I’m defending Greenville, when everyone knows that the cycling Mecca of the Carolinas is Asheville!
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
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Old 04-14-24, 12:25 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Thousands of recreational riders turn out for the cycling events in the Greenville area. I have multiple friends that come from Florida specifically to ride in the Greenville area.
This statement illustrates my point exactly. Cycling EVENTS generally have special coordination, advertising, logistics, and sag wagons. Large groups have a "presence" on roadways that individuals do not.

This FB Group (below) was suggested to me. The Winter Bike League. "Amateurs". Experienced looking dudes. There is a VAN blocking traffic for them in one of the only photos I could find. They are ADVERTISING the protection afforded by at least one vehicle behind them. Look at the "Point Standings" TWENTY riders have any points, three of whom attest to being "Amateurs". 678 people interested, 20 actually involved regularly. Metro Greenville has a population of 540,000 people. Camaraderie, sag wagons, and vehicle protections draw TWENTY people. Look, I'm not trying to be a d**k here, but other than a few roadies (not derogatory, I was one for 50 years) who have strength, skills, and quality bicycles at their disposal, there are very very few cyclists on Greenville roadways. I agree, the trails are awesome. I would agree that people from all over would love this place for organized cycling events, no doubt.

The number I am interested in finding out likely does not exist: How many local cyclists, who LIVE in this beautiful place, push their bikes out of their front door (or garage) and ride it ANYWHERE? Of those 20 hardcore winter cyclists, how many rode their bikes to the meeting spot? How many ride their bikes from their homes to ANYWHERE? Corner store? Pub? A friend's house? A local festival? With their spouse and children in tow? Of those 540,000 people who populate this area, I would bet money that the answer to my question is a statistical zero.

I would love to be proven wrong.




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