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With the rise of throttle e-bikes, e-motorcycles, mopeds etc. on the MUPs....

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With the rise of throttle e-bikes, e-motorcycles, mopeds etc. on the MUPs....

Old 04-25-24, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
My crystal ball tells me the artificial and silly distinctions between types of e-motor bikes will become irrelevant. People will choose the most power and functionality for their $. Vestigial pedals may remain, depending on how long the legal loopholes exist. Who knows how much disruption it would take before authorities think "Hmm, motor/ no motor. How easy to solve this."
So you think people riding e-road bikes and e-MTBs for leisure really wanted an e-motor bike? I think your crystal ball is broken. The distinctions are real and valid, just as they are with regular bikes, mopeds and motorbikes. The term e-bike is just too vague as all it tells you is that there is some kind of motor assistance.
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Old 04-25-24, 05:59 AM
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Those are all "e-motor" bikes. The only distinction that really matters is motor/ no motor. The others are artificial, created by the current regulations. Certainly there are cyclists who age out or otherwise become unable to ride w/o a motor but I think that will be a small segment of ebike users in the future. The attractions are obvious and as prices come down I think most users will come from outside the cycling world. They aren't going to care about classes. The "it's riding a bike, the motor is no different from another gear" prattle we see here will just seem silly to them. I agree, terminology is vague, hope this clarifies what I meant.
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Old 04-25-24, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Those are all "e-motor" bikes. The only distinction that really matters is motor/ no motor. The others are artificial, created by the current regulations. Certainly there are cyclists who age out or otherwise become unable to ride w/o a motor but I think that will be a small segment of ebike users in the future. The attractions are obvious and as prices come down I think most users will come from outside the cycling world. They aren't going to care about classes. The "it's riding a bike, the motor is no different from another gear" prattle we see here will just seem silly to them. I agree, terminology is vague, hope this clarifies what I meant.
It will be interesting to see how well your post ages. There will definitely be a whole load of e-motorbikes in the future, but e-bikes with variable pedal assist will also continue to be popular. They are totally different markets.
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Old 04-25-24, 11:45 AM
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I agree, different markets. I see the % of buyers who see value in turning pedals as opposed to turning a throttle, decreasing. Cycling has never been that popular here in US among adults. Compare the number of aged out cyclists who need an ebike to adults who buy other motorized recreation of all sorts. I can see where in a few years lots of families might have a couple of ebikes in the garage along with their jet skis or whatever. They aren't going to care about pedal assist or 12 speed drive trains. Just my WAG but I don't see mfgs restricting themselves to a small market. Heck, I probably won't still be above ground to see how it shakes out.
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Old 04-25-24, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
I agree, different markets. I see the % of buyers who see value in turning pedals as opposed to turning a throttle, decreasing. Cycling has never been that popular here in US among adults. Compare the number of aged out cyclists who need an ebike to adults who buy other motorized recreation of all sorts. I can see where in a few years lots of families might have a couple of ebikes in the garage along with their jet skis or whatever. They aren't going to care about pedal assist or 12 speed drive trains. Just my WAG but I don't see mfgs restricting themselves to a small market. Heck, I probably won't still be above ground to see how it shakes out.
Over here in the UK, it’s the pedal assist bikes that are most popular among leisure cyclists and commuters. It’s rare to see throttle controlled e-bikes here. They just want a bicycle that is easier to pedal up hills and for most of them it has nothing to do with aging out. Those who are not interested in pedalling tend to prefer e-scooters here. Or they just ride conventional mopeds, which will soon be mostly electric too.

If you go into a bike shop in the UK you will see a range of pedal assist e-bikes alongside their conventional counterparts. Often they are electrified versions of the same bike. You won’t see any throttle controlled e-motorbikes.

The guys you are talking about will just be replacing their conventional motorbikes, scooters and quads with electric motorbikes, scooters and quads. At least they will be quieter and less smelly.
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Old 04-30-24, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by boozergut
Have you shifted more of your spare time to other hobbies and recreational pursuits?
not because of that. other things have pulled me away from cycling the past cpl of years & now I have a knee issue to remedy, if I can

but I do ride MUPs less seasonally due to increased traffic. maybe that's one of the reasons I love winter cycling
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Old 04-30-24, 06:23 PM
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Here in Hawaii, IC mopeds have long been on the scene. You need a drivers license but not an MC endorsement. Used to be one-time vehicle registration/license but due to complaints about modified exhaust systems changed law to annual registration with inspection. Electric anything bicycle was considered a moped, until a couple years ago they adopted the US CPSC definition of "low powered electric bicycle" 750 Watt / 20 mph max with 170 lb rider on level ground (16CFR Part 1512 Sec 1). LPEB have 1 time registration, no DL requirement but 15 year old minimum age (seems to be ignored so far).

On Oahu we only have one what could be called MUP, heavily used for commuting, and there have always been some IC mopeds illegally on it, but they tend to ride with aloha. More kids on these e-things is the problem. But e-things on sidewalks is what is going to bring down the hammer next legislative session. (e scooters and hover boards on sidewalk too.)

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Old 04-30-24, 07:03 PM
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My issue with these motorized 'bikes' is that they are using the same bike paths and bike lanes that non-motorized bikes are using, but are travelling at a much higher speed. I was on a dedicated bike lane today on the homeward commute when a dude on one of these motorized bikes attempted to pass me on the right side. I was travelling maybe 35 km/h. He was probably going 5 km/h faster than I was, and he wasn't pedaling at all. Full throttle, or half throttle, I honestly don't know how fast these things are capable of going.
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Old 05-12-24, 11:17 AM
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The New 2-Wheeled Operator is NOT a "Cyclist"

Originally Posted by boozergut
Have you shifted more of your spare time to other hobbies and recreational pursuits?
Yes. I'm a lifelong tennis player and coach who was injured in a car crash. I turned to cycling to take some of the place of tennis.
Trying to make comeback to tennis due to the following experiences:

I'm having run-ins with electric craft of all sorts; e-bikes, scooters, skateboards, and even electric motorcycles
GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION IN THE BIKE LANES.

1) I was making a right turn at night and avoided a HEAD ON COLLISION with a scooter traveling THE WRONG WAY WITH NO LIGHTS.

2) Two E-motorcyles approached me HEAD ON where I had to veer beside speeding auto traffic. AS they passed, I dodged one rider who stuck his foot out in an attempt to strike me.

3) Just minutes later, another electric scooter was coming toward me IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

These incidents continue each time I travel in the bike lane.

Generally speaking, the new two-wheeled traveler is not what is defined as a "cyclist." This traveler appears to have a completely different mindset that tends to be, 1) self-centered, and 2) disrespectful of others who share the road with them.
Some would even classify as punks/criminals, like the rider who tried to assault/kick me while passing me head-on.

Last edited by michaelm101; 05-13-24 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 05-12-24, 11:33 AM
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One of the best ways I've found to deal with other oncoming traffic in the wrong lane of the MUP is to simply stop and put your feet down on the ground so they know you are stopped. Of course you need to do this when they are at least 3 seconds or more from reaching your position.

Usually most just pass and keep going. But a few stop themselves and ask why I didn't get out of their way. Then I can point out where the trail guidelines are posted that recommend all traffic keep right and pass on the left when safe to do so.
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Old 05-12-24, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
One of the best ways I've found to deal with other oncoming traffic in the wrong lane of the MUP is to simply stop and put your feet down on the ground so they know you are stopped. Of course you need to do this when they are at least 3 seconds or more from reaching your position.

Usually most just pass and keep going. But a few stop themselves and ask why I didn't get out of their way. Then I can point out where the trail guidelines are posted that recommend all traffic keep right and pass on the left when safe to do so.
If I did this, I'd never get to my destinations on time!
And, I do always cherish my forward momentum when cycling...
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Old 05-13-24, 08:23 AM
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I do most of my riding in very hilly terrain. I rarely see electric motorized vehicles except for the four wheeled variety.
On the MUPS? They are everywhere in SoCal on MUPS as well as gas powered off-road dirt bikes, electric scooters, electric unicycles, dune buggies, mini motorcycles and all matter of gas engine contraptions. MUPS are freeways for everything but bicycles in SoCal as far as I can see.
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Old 05-13-24, 08:42 AM
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E-Bike

Here in Colorado I dont see them as too much of a problem, though I do curse under my breath as someone passes me up a grinding hill on an e-bike. For me, I see them as a good way to allow some people access to the mountains that cant ride as much as I can. I also see them great for commuters and even know some people who use them as a way to get out when they have a physical condition that prevents them from riding a normal bike.
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Old 05-13-24, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Yes. I'm a lifelong tennis player and coach who was injured in a car crash. I turned to cycling to take some of the place of tennis.
Trying to make comeback to tennis due to the following experiences:

I'm having run-ins with electric craft of all sorts; e-bikes, scooters, skateboards, and even electric motorcycles
GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION IN THE BIKE LANES.

1) I was making a right turn at night and avoided a HEAD ON COLLISION with a scooter traveling THE WRONG WAY WITH NO LIGHTS.

2) Two E-motorcyles approached me HEAD ON where I had to veer beside speeding auto traffic. AS they passed, I dodged one rider who stuck his foot out in an attempt to strike me.

3) Just minutes later, another electric scooter was coming toward me IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

These incidents continue each time I travel in the bike lane.

Generally speaking, the new two-wheeled traveler is not what is defined as a "cyclist." This traveler appears to have a completely different mindset that tends to be, 1) self-centered, and 2) disrespectful of others who share the road with them.
Some would even classify as punks/criminals, like the rider who tried to assault/kick me while passing me head-on.
Thanks, Ive had similar experiences. Its very frustrating, and these yahoos are ruining the hobby for some of us.
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Old 05-14-24, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Yes. I'm a lifelong tennis player and coach who was injured in a car crash. I turned to cycling to take some of the place of tennis.
Trying to make comeback to tennis due to the following experiences:

I'm having run-ins with electric craft of all sorts; e-bikes, scooters, skateboards, and even electric motorcycles
GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION IN THE BIKE LANES.

1) I was making a right turn at night and avoided a HEAD ON COLLISION with a scooter traveling THE WRONG WAY WITH NO LIGHTS.

2) Two E-motorcyles approached me HEAD ON where I had to veer beside speeding auto traffic. AS they passed, I dodged one rider who stuck his foot out in an attempt to strike me.

3) Just minutes later, another electric scooter was coming toward me IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

These incidents continue each time I travel in the bike lane.

Generally speaking, the new two-wheeled traveler is not what is defined as a "cyclist." This traveler appears to have a completely different mindset that tends to be, 1) self-centered, and 2) disrespectful of others who share the road with them.
Some would even classify as punks/criminals, like the rider who tried to assault/kick me while passing me head-on.
This is more of a reflection of your local population than it is about “electric craft”. These idiots were always lurking around before they had e-bikes-/scooters. You are just more aware of them now 😂
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Old 05-14-24, 05:26 AM
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I also don't ride on paths intended for people on foot. There were and still are such paths everywhere in the Twin Citiies(Minnesota), even back in the 80's. The only times I used the paths were, if there were no people on them, as as bypass/shortcut through/around certain areas. People on foot and bikes just doesn't mix unless one is moving no faster than the fastest runner and with your head on a swivel, so to speak. Even cars passing cars is sketchy enough as you never really know if the passed is going to hold their space. Pedestrians in a even more confined space even more so, they can turn on a dime any moment. It seems to me these paths are designed by people with "good intentions" but little foresight or experience as to the real-world use of them for everyone who uses them. It really has nothing to do with e-bikes specifically, just bikes in total. I wouldn't even want to walk on such a path myself because bicycles are invited. Being on-guard 360 for a high speed bicycle doesn't make for a pleasant walk.
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Old 05-16-24, 05:16 PM
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I was surprised that traditional bikes largely outnumber E bikes on the Katy Trail in Missouri. Only problem I saw was the e bike riders who think they need to blare their tunes.
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Old 05-18-24, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sknhgy
I was surprised that traditional bikes largely outnumber E bikes on the Katy Trail in Missouri. Only problem I saw was the e bike riders who think they need to blare their tunes.
I'm not a fan of the blaring tunes, but I think I may deal with it better than the clueless walkers who stuff their ears with noise and couldn't hear a missile attack coming.

On the MCT system in west central IL, I see ebike riders pretty frequently now. But I've seen more of the senior demographic riding not particularly fast, often as couples. The ebikes they are riding are quite often the lower cost fat-tired 20" variety that have a throttle, but they don't seem to be endangering anyone. I say good on them! When I get (more) senior, I will enjoy the opportunity to stay active. The young riders on the carbon road bikes are the fast ones!

As to the throttle issue - I have an ebike and an etrike, along with a group of unmotorized bikes. The trike has no throttle at all. The ebike has one (because it came installed), I just don't use it. Based on my own use, I have found that it's best to judge the rider on his performance, not just the equipment.

To the person who might say that ebikes aren't exercise, the heartrate chart on my Garmin watch would beg to differ. It's all in how you ride it.
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Old 05-18-24, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mobilemail
I'm not a fan of the blaring tunes, but I think I may deal with it better than the clueless walkers who stuff their ears with noise and couldn't hear a missile attack coming.

On the MCT system in west central IL, I see ebike riders pretty frequently now. But I've seen more of the senior demographic riding not particularly fast, often as couples. The ebikes they are riding are quite often the lower cost fat-tired 20" variety that have a throttle, but they don't seem to be endangering anyone. I say good on them! When I get (more) senior, I will enjoy the opportunity to stay active. The young riders on the carbon road bikes are the fast ones!

As to the throttle issue - I have an ebike and an etrike, along with a group of unmotorized bikes. The trike has no throttle at all. The ebike has one (because it came installed), I just don't use it. Based on my own use, I have found that it's best to judge the rider on his performance, not just the equipment.

To the person who might say that ebikes aren't exercise, the heartrate chart on my Garmin watch would beg to differ. It's all in how you ride it.
Been wondering how many ebikes are appearing on the MCT trails. That is a very nice trail system.
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Old 05-20-24, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by boozergut
Thanks, Ive had similar experiences. Its very frustrating, and these yahoos are ruining the hobby for some of us.
'Some' of us is exactly right. It's not ruining it for me. I can count the number of times I've been on an MUP on one hand. I can't imagine trying to go even 15mph on an MUP. The majority of cyclists are really not that skilled. The first off camber, decreasing radius turn they encounter going faster than about 10mph will be the last one.

That so many of you see hooligans going 30 and now 40 mph on MUP's has me scratching my head. I flatly don't believe it. I am convinced that a lot of you think that ANY bike going faster than you must 1.have a motor and 2. the motor has in excess of 3kw. If you only knew how much that kind of power costs and even having it wouldn't make 40mph a reality. But any thread that gives you the opportunity to decry the death of 'acoustic' cycling will bring Les Miserables out in force. Maybe the crux of the issue is in thinking of cycling as 'a hobby'. For those of us for which cycling is: transportation, fitness, health, mental well being, etc. it is way too important to quit on a whim.

And, before I forget. Throttles are NOT a bad thing! Get ready to have your head explode: one of the fastest e-motorcycles in the world (eRockit) does not have a throttle! On the other hand, many pedal assist (pedelec) mid-drives have a handlebar mounted throttle that can be used for bursts of speed while pedaling, and/or completely un-pedaled forward motion, as the rider determines. That an e-bicycle can move without the rider pedaling is something that should be free of moral judgement. 1. It is self-limiting as a practice, for obvious reasons 2. It happens to be a valid safety innovation for elderly cyclists. That could be your mom or dad! Would you begrudge Nana the capability of dodging a hit from an Escalade by a well timed burst of throttle? Would you? Come on, guys, get a grip. I'm tired of seeing avatars of people that in other threads conduct themselves with maturity and nous, fall over each other in group think throttle bike hatred. It's unseemly and sad.

Last edited by Leisesturm; 05-21-24 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-21-24, 07:33 AM
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Electric Motorcycles are all over our wilderness cycling trails this year. And frankly I'd prefer if my nana stayed home to enjoy her quilting and jam making.
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Old 05-21-24, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
'Some' of us is exactly right. It's not ruining it for me. I can count the number of times I've been on an MUP on one hand. I can't imagine trying to go even 15mph on an MUP. The majority of cyclists are really not that skilled. The first off camber, decreasing radius turn they encounter going faster than about 10mph will be the last one.
Amazing how much you can and do imagine about current cycling conditions on MUPs after being on them just a few times in the past several decades.
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Old 05-21-24, 09:08 AM
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just say no to e transportation on mups.
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Old 05-21-24, 09:35 AM
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whoops

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Old 05-21-24, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
... many pedal assist (pedelec) mid-drives have a handlebar mounted throttle that can be used for bursts of speed while pedaling, and/or completely un-pedaled forward motion, as the rider determines. That an e-bicycle can move without the rider pedaling is something that should be free of moral judgement. ...
Those are motorcycles, not bicycles. Or to parse a bit - mopeds, not bicycles. It's not a moral judgement to state this fact.
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