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With the rise of throttle e-bikes, e-motorcycles, mopeds etc. on the MUPs....

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With the rise of throttle e-bikes, e-motorcycles, mopeds etc. on the MUPs....

Old 04-22-24, 11:23 AM
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With the rise of throttle e-bikes, e-motorcycles, mopeds etc. on the MUPs....

Have you shifted more of your spare time to other hobbies and recreational pursuits?
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Old 04-22-24, 11:44 AM
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Nope, because I don't ride on MUPs. However, I am curious how the ebike issue, including on MUPs, evolve over time. They certainly are getting faster and no need to pedal to get up to speed. I can spot an ebike a mile away, even if the rider is pedaling "pedaling".



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Old 04-22-24, 12:27 PM
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Why would I?

In my area they don't seem to be a bother. Those I've seen on the MUP and elsewhere are all being ridden at a leisurely pace. There was one guy on a really heavy fat-tire e-bike that tried to stay with me on a climb, but he wasn't able to keep up with me. Don't know why, he never caught back up in the other six miles I had remaining for the day.

I don't know if any of them have been the type of e-bikes that should not be called e-bikes.
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Old 04-22-24, 02:19 PM
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One of the popular MUPs in this area has a speed limit of 15mph. Due to complaints about some people on 'throttled' e-bikes (which are really electric motor scooters, IMHO) the police have been setting up radar traps alongside the path, and stopping and ticketing those that are well over the limit and/or riding in a manner that endangers others on the MUP.
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Old 04-22-24, 05:18 PM
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Don't ride MUPs very often. Lucky to have lots of country roads to ride with not much traffic.
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Old 04-22-24, 05:57 PM
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Please don't call throttled vehicles e-bikes, e-bikes DO NOT have throttles. Sadly yes though more throttled vehicles are getting into MUPs or bike lanes and is frustrating but nobody enforces the laws or rules. If someone did enforce the rules it would be great but it could lead to mistaken enforcement of legitimate cyclists.

The only place a throttle belongs is on normal roads with cars then they are fine or on motorcycle trails. Throttles themselves aren't bad they just aren't needed in pedestrian and bicycle spaces.
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Old 04-22-24, 08:14 PM
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nope. Just do less waving.
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Old 04-23-24, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Please don't call throttled vehicles e-bikes, e-bikes DO NOT have throttles. Sadly yes though more throttled vehicles are getting into MUPs or bike lanes and is frustrating but nobody enforces the laws or rules. If someone did enforce the rules it would be great but it could lead to mistaken enforcement of legitimate cyclists.

The only place a throttle belongs is on normal roads with cars then they are fine or on motorcycle trails. Throttles themselves aren't bad they just aren't needed in pedestrian and bicycle spaces.
That's not my understanding. I'm not sure how old these definitions are, but there are already ebikes that can hit 40+MPH and they have pedals.

https://www.wheelworld.com/articles/...cles-pg278.htm


1) TYPE 1 E-Bike: Pedal Assist, is an electric bicycle on which you must pedal in order to use the motor. It's just like a conventional bicycle except that there's a motor that senses that you're pedaling and kicks in to aid the pedaling effort. It feels like you have the best tailwind of your life on a permanent basis. This class/type of E-bike may or may not have a throttle. (Pedal Assist, may or may not also have a throttle, Max. Speed 20mph, no need for driver’s license, no age limit.)

2) TYPE 2 E-Bike: Throttle Only, is an e-bike equipped with a motor controlled by a throttle. On these electrics, you don't have to pedal to benefit from the motor. When you want power, just crank the throttle and away you go. You'll be able to accelerate in the middle of a corner thus increasing traction. Of course, the less you pedal, the sooner you run out of juice in the battery. (Throttle Only, Max. Speed 20mph, no need for driver’s license, no age limit.)

3) TYPE 3 E-Bike: Pedal Assist 28mph. this Class/Type is the fastest “legal” E-bike with a maximum speed of 28mph. Still considered a “bicycle” and does not require a driver’s license, license plate, ect. It’s legally considered a bicycle….. and man is it fun! By law a helmet is required. Typically this category would be best for someone commuting on their bike.(Pedal Assist, may or may not also have a throttle, Max. Speed 28mph, no need for driver’s license, must be 17 or older, helmet is required.)
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Old 04-23-24, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
That's not my understanding. I'm not sure how old these definitions are, but there are already ebikes that can hit 40+MPH and they have pedals.

https://www.wheelworld.com/articles/...cles-pg278.htm
Having pedals and a throttle makes it a moped which has basis in bicycles but a bicycle is pedal only. If people want to ride them and all of that, totally fine, go for it, plenty of roads all over the U.S. for motorized throttled vehicles they just don't need to be mis-defined as a bicycle nor be on trails and paths designed for bicycles or pedestrians.
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Old 04-23-24, 07:52 AM
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It varies under local laws and ordinances. Here in Parts Unknown, by the book any ebike with a throttle is legally a moped and like any moped requires an operator's license, registration with a license tag and liability insurance. It is illegal to operate one on an MUP.

In reality, it's sort of 'wild west'/libertarian on the ground. The LEOs are oblivious and most likely will remain so until some child gets hit/hurt by a speeding electric moped.
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Old 04-23-24, 08:14 AM
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next we'll be seeing stuff like the "phatmoto" zipping down the MUPs...

https://www.phatmoto.com/
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Old 04-23-24, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Having pedals and a throttle makes it a moped which has basis in bicycles but a bicycle is pedal only. If people want to ride them and all of that, totally fine, go for it, plenty of roads all over the U.S. for motorized throttled vehicles they just don't need to be mis-defined as a bicycle nor be on trails and paths designed for bicycles or pedestrians.
I don't disagree with you, but sadly what I listed are the official definitions now. People seem to not equate mopeds/scooters with throttle-controlled ebikes. I'm afraid that as the technology advances that there will be more throttle-only function available on bikes with pedals. I'm sure one day the laws will catch up and we will change the definitions of ebikes and such, but for now the bike industry calls them ebikes and the laws follow.

Another problem I see coming, as the technology advances the true ebikes will become faster without an increase in pedaling force. What then?




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Old 04-23-24, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
People seem to not equate mopeds/scooters with throttle-controlled ebikes..
'People' might not, but where I live, the law does.
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Old 04-23-24, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
'People' might not, but where I live, the law does.
I understand, there are places where the laws are attempting to catch up, but still a lot of gray areas and the technology is still advancing, there are a lot more areas of concern than just MUPs. Curious, where do you live? I'm curious of the laws/ordinances.




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Old 04-23-24, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by boozergut
Have you shifted more of your spare time to other hobbies and recreational pursuits?
Not at all. Though I am seeing more ebikes and the like (e-scooters, e-unicycles, e-motorbikes), they are still not that prevalent that I would encounter even a single one per day on the roads and trails that I use. What I do see regularly is these e-vehicles being ridden on the sidewalk. That's a concern, obviously, because some of them are being ridden to the max speed.

City of Toronto apparently has a ban on e-scooters, but that hasn't stopped anyone from owning or riding one around town, because there is zero enforcement. I don't ride downtown often, but when I do notice there are lots of e-scooters on the road, bike lanes, and paved trails. I try to stick to gravel trails to avoid them.
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Old 04-23-24, 03:43 PM
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I try to not let externals keep me from doing what I want. This doesn't mean that I don't adapt to reality, just that I have a bias.

Moreover, I rarely use bike paths or trails, so the presence of E-bikes is less of a factor for me than it might be for others.

That said, I believe that the various agencies involved made serious mistakes in defining E-bike classes. IMO the E-bike designation equating them to bicycles should be limited to pedal assist versions that will not go unless you're pedaling, and the assist should phase out at something slightly below 20mph. I believe that ANY 2 wheel vehicle that can move by motor power alone is by definition a "motorcycle", and should be regulated accordingly. I've no issue with creating a class of light motorcycles, which would cover the throttle E-bikes, and formulating appropriate regulations, ie. plate required, along with bike (not MC) helmet, but no special DL needed. Here in NY, I see far too many E-bikes operating more like MCs and am concerned that related issues will end up causing a clampdown that might end up including pedal assist E-bikes.
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Old 04-23-24, 03:55 PM
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We don’t have many MUP’s in Tokyo or Japan, but any e-bike which can move without pedaling must have a license plate, and is not allowed on a MUP. These bikes are all over Tokyo, and the police are clamping down hard on them, citing them for not having license plates, and citing riders for not wearing proper motorcycle helmets and/or operating a motor vehicle without a license. Getting a plate is not at all hard, but a drivers license in Japan costs a lot of time and money to get.
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Old 04-23-24, 03:58 PM
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I tend to avoid MUT’s, not so much due to illegal (in NY State) throttle mopeds, but general congestion with runners, walkers, dog walkers, baby walkers 3 abreast, etc…. On the occasion. I head to the beach on a MUT, definitely many more e-bikes and otherwise illegal mopeds. When I commuted in Brooklyn and Queens on MUTs, there were a lot of Vespa style motorcycles as well as delivery folks in throttled mopeds.
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Old 04-24-24, 04:25 AM
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Thread title reminds me of this:-

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Old 04-24-24, 05:15 PM
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My crystal ball tells me the artificial and silly distinctions between types of e-motor bikes will become irrelevant. People will choose the most power and functionality for their $. Vestigial pedals may remain, depending on how long the legal loopholes exist. Who knows how much disruption it would take before authorities think "Hmm, motor/ no motor. How easy to solve this."
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Old 04-24-24, 05:48 PM
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I ride mostly MUP. I see maybe 2 or 3 e-bikes a ride and I am doing around 25-40 miles. Not a problem at all since I am doing this for fun. Most e-bikes/e-scoots I see are young teens going to middle school. I ride a loop around the high school and still see regular bikes being pedaled up the hill to class.
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Old 04-24-24, 07:29 PM
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No.
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Old 04-24-24, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul
next we'll be seeing stuff like the "phatmoto" zipping down the MUPs...

https://www.phatmoto.com/
Next? I’ve already seen contraptions like that on trails here in Philly.
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Old 04-24-24, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Next? I’ve already seen contraptions like that on trails here in Philly.
the homemade stuff is out there, but I haven't seen the commercially produced ones yet.
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Old 04-24-24, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by boozergut
Have you shifted more of your spare time to other hobbies and recreational pursuits?
I've never paid them much mind. I see mostly aging boomers who couldn't pedal around the block on a regular bike going long distances on Rail-Trails riding E-bikes. The day might come when I'm too puny and weak to pedal a conventional bicycle so maybe an electric one is in my future. All of the bike rentals (bike share and rental companies) are using E-bikes these days in New Orleans where I lived for decades and Greenville, SC where I live now. I've never been terribly bothered by them.

I've owned motorcycles and bicycles. Never an E-bike. I believe if I had the irresistible urge to go fast and far I would just purchase another motorcycle.
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