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RATS - I Cant Believe I Said This

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RATS - I Cant Believe I Said This

Old 05-06-24, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
Not sure why you quoted me, but I stand behind what I said. Motorcycles are unforgiving if you don't know what you're doing.
Quoted you in support of your second sentence: "However, both are unforgiving if you don't know what you're doing. Especially the motorcycle."
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Old 05-06-24, 10:04 AM
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Don't care to try motorcycling. The consequences of a mishap are to severe.
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Old 05-06-24, 03:52 PM
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Some additional stats about motorcycles:
  • 27% of motorcycle fatalities involve alcohol
  • 34% of fatalities involve speeding
  • 36% of fatalities involve unlicensed riders
  • 38% of crashes are single-vehicle accidents
The sad reality is that every spring, a large population of young men along with 50-something empty nesters get their first motorcycle, many of them getting motorcycles that are much too heavy and much too powerful for their skill level because peer pressure and lack of knowledge pushes them either towards a 100hp+ sportbike or 750#+ cruiser. The thrill, to be frank, is intoxicating, and many quickly get over their heads and get into bad accidents. Many of them perish.

If these new riders can't get past this initial stage and take motorcycle safety seriously, they can enjoy decades of riding. I always ride with safety gear - helmet, abrasion-resistant jacket, pants, gloves, sturdy boots, and padding for my knees, elbows, shoulders and back. I even wear an airbag vest that inflates when it senses an accident. This gear has save my life at least two times, probably three.

Because of this, I feel much safer on a motorcycle when I'm on a busy road with no shoulder than on a bicycle. On a motorcycle, I'm am moving at the pace of traffic, I take the lane without any qualms, and I am not getting passed by drivers within inches of my shoulder. On a bicycle, the only protective gear that I have is a laughably lightweight helmet. I am being constantly passed by two- and three-ton vehicles, and I am at the mercy of the skill and attention span of others.

zandoval , if your grandson chooses to ride a motorcycle, I hope that he starts out with a light and low-power bike. I hope that he takes the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) beginner courses, and takes safety seriously. And if he's a medium, I have some new motorcycle riding gear that I'd be happy to send him (from my job as a motorcycle journalist).
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Old 05-07-24, 10:11 PM
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Pull outs (and people making a left in front of you) are more likely to be fatal on a motorcycle.
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Old 05-09-24, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by zandoval
Is riding a Motorcycle safer then riding a bicycle now days?
For me, as a skilled cyclist and motorcyclist, given my current living situation and location, a motorcycle would be the better choice. Neither option would be considered "safe" as apposed to a metal box with crumple zones and air bags all around. If my car broke and I could only afford a motorcycle, I would use that option over my bicycle.

One note: Narrow roadways with lots of blind curves and hills and no room to maneuver if oncoming traffic crossed the center line - a motorcycle would have a better chance of moving over to the very edge of the road to avoid a crash. Try that in a car and you're in the trees. In that one scenario, a MC would be better than a car. Bicycle is out of the question for me.
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Old 05-09-24, 06:47 AM
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I Safely Rode Motorcycles 25 Years not One Accident.

The Narrow Tires on Bicycles did Me IN.
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Old 05-09-24, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval
Is riding a Motorcycle safer then riding a bicycle now days?
Following in PeteHski's footsteps, I must note that it is "than" (for a comparison) not "then" (for sequential events or objects).
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Old 05-09-24, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
Following in PeteHski's footsteps, I must note that it is "than" (for a comparison) not "then" (for sequential events or objects).
I used to believe that people were ignorant. Now I believe that Autocorrect is ignorant. And I'm not an English teacher.
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Old 05-10-24, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
Following in PeteHski's footsteps...
Its been a long, LONG handicap for me, especially as a professional. Spelling, syntax, and just getting your thoughts out as correctly as possible is a chore. In my AO you passed English because you could speak it. And don't even try to evaluate my Spanish. Oh yes, my hand writing was bad before I went to medical school.

I make the attempts...

Thank Ya all, I appreciate your patience and your help...
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Old 05-11-24, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by zandoval
Its been a long, LONG handicap for me, especially as a professional. Spelling, syntax, and just getting your thoughts out as correctly as possible is a chore. In my AO you passed English because you could speak it. And don't even try to evaluate my Spanish. Oh yes, my hand writing was bad before I went to medical school.

I make the attempts...

Thank Ya all, I appreciate your patience and your help...
I’m glad you took it the right way. I don’t usually get involved with the spelling police, but I thought it might help you in this particular case, as “riding” is such a common word used on a bike forum and “ridding” just sounds really silly if you read it literally!
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Old 05-11-24, 05:40 AM
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Just one acecdotal point. I don't claim any of this is statistically significant, but it has been my longish experience.

I have been both a bicylist and a motorcyclist in various disciplines including as transportation and sport over the decades. In my case I have been to the hospital quite a few times due to accidents on the bike both from road/transportation accidents and trail or race ones. I have lost track of how many helmets I have broken over the years and how many trips to the hospital.

I broke a wrist (scaphoid bone) and injured an ankle in two separate motorctcle incidents one during a hare scrambles race and the other a short track race. I don't recall any other serious injuries on the bike other than bumps and bruises.

So in my particular case over my73 years on the planet the bicycle has been more likely to get me in accidents and there were more likely to be injuries. Since I am still alive I won't comment on how likely they were to kill me.

Last edited by staehpj1; 05-11-24 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 05-11-24, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I used to believe that people were ignorant. Now I believe that Autocorrect is ignorant. And I'm not an English teacher.
Originally Posted by zandoval
Its been a long, LONG handicap for me, especially as a professional. Spelling, syntax, and just getting your thoughts out as correctly as possible is a chore. In my AO you passed English because you could speak it. ...
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I’m glad you took it the right way. I don’t usually get involved with the spelling police, ...
Glad everyone is pretty chill about this whole exchange.

zandoval: I doubt it is your fault; it is largely the fault of the U.S. education system. The fact we even have the concepts of "spelling police" and "grammar police" reflects the prevalent American attitude about spelling, grammar, diction, etc. and the written word in general. As a non-native U.S. citizen who grew up speaking and writing English (yes, my fellow Americans, this combination of facts is not only possible, but fairly common) and who moved here midway through university, it seems that spelling and grammar issues that are fixed in elementary / grade / primary school everywhere else are left until law school in the U.S.
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Old 05-11-24, 01:06 PM
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Someone once corrected me when I misspelled the word, grammar. Why isn't it spelled Grammer





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Old 05-12-24, 05:58 AM
  #39  
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I am a lifelong bicyclist and motorcyclist. Having read through the thread, I think FBinNY got closest to the correct response. There's really no way to KNOW the answer to the question. John Flores posted some data that has relevance. A huge percentage of fatal motorcycle crashes are single vehicle crashes. That very rarely happens with bicyclists. Alcohol is a large contributing factor with bicyclists as well.

Once you start looking at the contributing factors in fatal crashes and begin risk mitigation based on the risk assessment. You end up with a different set of risks. You can't mitigate away not having a steel cage around you. A motorcyclist's speed and a bicyclist's lack of speed become primary factors.

Let's throw an asterisk into the equation. *assuming both motorcyclists and bicyclists obey the law." When I hop on the motorbikes, even at my age and with my experience, I can get throttle happy.

Lastly, I don't think accidents per mile provides the best comparison. Given the slow speed of a bicyclist, I think exposure hours would be the best.

I simply can't check out of this thread without touching on grammar and spelling. I tend to be pretty good at both, but I have a distinct disconnect between my brain and my two typing fingers, and my ability catch errors prior my posts is much worse than it is when I read other posts. lol I purposefully use the indefinite you. My mind is weird. When I read "one," my mind immediately says "that applies to more than just one."
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Old 05-12-24, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
Someone once corrected me when I misspelled the word, grammar. Why isn't it spelled Grammer
Because: Kelsey Grammer - IMDb
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Old 05-13-24, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard

Lastly, I don't think accidents per mile provides the best comparison. Given the slow speed of a bicyclist, I think exposure hours would be the best.
I think that’s a very good point. It’s one of the reasons why I spend a lot of time training indoors or riding off-road. Anecdotally, I have noticed that it’s often the very high volume riders (eg. extensive tourers) who often seem to run out of luck eventually.
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Old 05-14-24, 04:43 PM
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On a road with cars and no bike lane I would rather be a motorcyclist. With a bike lane it's 50/50 for "safety". Like most motorcyclists I have had some "close" calls. Coming in hot on a corner and having a car get a little close to your front end as you go a little wide, highsiding in the rain at slow speed, low siding at night when someone used pocket sand on the road, nipping a mirror while filtering, etc,etc. I still ride, but only for commuting or meetups with gas being 6 dollars now. According to what my parents have said about CA 30+years ago(before I was born) it was much safer. Less cars, less people, better roads, no phones, slower cars, on and on. If he is in the suburbs surely there are times where traffic is "dead" and that's when he could ride around, maybe with a parent initially.
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Old 05-17-24, 12:59 PM
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Anecdote: I spent three years as a neurology resident, during which I saw at least five, maybe ten, young men who ended up in chronic vegetative or minimally conscious states from motorcycle crashes. Maybe some brain deaths too; I don't remember. I saw one serious neurological injury in a cyclist (and I remember this, because I was riding at the time): a cervical spinal cord contusion, which got better.
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Old 05-19-24, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
I cannot imagine that a motorcycle going faster is going to be a safer option. I feel much safer on a bicycle than I would on a motorcycle though to be fair I haven't ridden a motorcycles but I know going faster is generally less safe in the conditions we would be talking about.
I've been riding motorcycles since 1975 and cycling since around 1982. I was also an MSF Instructor. There are a lot of factors that influence safety in both activities. For instance, on a moto being part of traffic can make you more visible to some car drivers whereas cyclists are often not seen. Both sports have their safety issues. I wouldn't say the speed of moto makes them less safe. FWIW my moto rides have been done on sport bikes ( 26 yrs on Ducatis ) and cross country trips in addition to local riding. In my case I feel safer on my Triumph than my Canyon Aeroad. I can use the Triumph's power to get away from bad drivers and I have the proper gear not lycra. I guess it depends to some extent on what feels safe to you.
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Old 05-19-24, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Anecdote: I spent three years as a neurology resident, during which I saw at least five, maybe ten, young men who ended up in chronic vegetative or minimally conscious states from motorcycle crashes. Maybe some brain deaths too; I don't remember. I saw one serious neurological injury in a cyclist (and I remember this, because I was riding at the time): a cervical spinal cord contusion, which got better.
Do you know if the motorcycle riders were wearing helmets? I ask because my state (CT) does not have a helmet law and I believe, but don't actually know, that this could be a significant factor.
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Old 05-19-24, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Anecdote: I spent three years as a neurology resident, during which I saw at least five, maybe ten, young men who ended up in chronic vegetative or minimally conscious states from motorcycle crashes. Maybe some brain deaths too; I don't remember. I saw one serious neurological injury in a cyclist (and I remember this, because I was riding at the time): a cervical spinal cord contusion, which got better.
FWIW back in 2013 I had a cycling crash and broke my neck. My spinal cord was intact but C1&C2 had to be fused. Back on my bike after 3 months. I have nothing but love and respect for the neurosurgeon who put me back together. He was a cyclist too. Here's a funny story:
After a month I went to his office for a check up.

Doc: So have you been back on your bike?
Me: No. You told me not to ride until you said I could.
Doc: I know.

Last edited by bruce19; 05-20-24 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 05-19-24, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
Do you know if the motorcycle riders were wearing helmets? I ask because my state (CT) does not have a helmet law and I believe, but don't actually know, that this could be a significant factor.
I would assume they were, since the state had a helmet law, but I don’t remember.
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Old 05-19-24, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
FWIW back in 2013 I had a cycling crash and broke my neck. My spinal cord was intact but C1&C2 had to be fused. Back on my bike after 3 months. I have nothing but love and respect for the neurosurgeon who put me back together. He was a cyclist too. Here's a funny story:
After a monht I went to his office for a check up.

Doc: So have you been back on your bike?
Me: No. You told me not to ride until you said I could.
Doc: I know.
I have a fusion at C5-6 and prosthetic disks at the levels above and below. I had it done at the old Walter Reed and at my last follow-up visit I was cleared to hump a 100 lb ruck. I was even punier back then!

I like neurosurgeons too,
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Old 05-20-24, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
I wouldn't say the speed of moto makes them less safe.
I think on balance speed probably does make motos less safe, but obviously depends on the situation. Cycling with high speed traffic is almost certainly less safe, which is why cyclists are not allowed on motorways. Whereas cycling on less busy roads is probably safer due to the much lower speeds.

I live right next to Silverstone race circuit, so there are lots of aspiring Moto GP wannabes riding on the surrounding rural roads. When they run out of talent it usually ends badly! But on the other hand cycling on those roads can be risky too with all the race traffic and blind bends. Perhaps a very cautious motorcyclist with no ego would be the safest around here on 2 wheels!
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Old 05-20-24, 03:20 PM
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One things people tend to forget is that we don't live or die based on statistics. If you study accident data for both bicycles and motorcycles, and probably everything else, you find that accidents and injuries aren't evenly or randomly distributed. Some people can enjoy riding on to wheels for a lifetime without injury, while others have multiple accidents. So, significant factors include experience, skill, and temperament.

This is why I avoid thinking of things like bicycling or motorcycling as safe or dangerous, and prefer to consider how unforgiving they are. IMO motorcycling is probably more unforgiving of user error than bicycling because of the speeds involved.

Also consider that one big difference is that on bicycles, we start as kids and begin to develop skills before we're able to go that fast, or start riding in traffic. OTOH, motorcycles don't have that gentle skill/experience curve. Anyone can hop on and with some right hand movement be cruising along at 60mph within a few seconds.

I used to spend a decent amount of time in places where tourists can easily rent mopeds. It's a terrible situation because it puts inexperienced people on two wheels riding unfamiliar roads, often after some (or more) drinking. Despite being a minority of local moped riders, those tourists account for a large percentage of moped accident victims. Interestingly a significant cause is the speed bumps put there to improve safety.
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