Seattle, Sunday. almost ran down 50 plus roadies!
08-20-05, 04:44 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by genec
Gee this is exactly the way a military convoy operates... we don't seem to have issues with those other grouped users of the road.
How 'bout funeral processions? "We" don't have issues with them either; think that also gives a free pass to our roadie comrades to run lights in front of vehicles that do have the right of way?
08-20-05, 07:18 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by 2manybikes
Have you ever ridden through an intersection in traffic with a few other cyclists?
I'm not saying what they did was legal, but it is possible it may have been safer. It also can be scary to sit in traffic at the light with the cars behind you, as they would have if they did not all go though at once.
I was not there, they may have been being jerks too. But this is what pops into my head when you describe what happened. It is hard to see the situation in your imagination when someone describes it on the forums too. But, It makes me wonder if you have ever had the experience that the cyclists were going through. If you have done It and still think they were being jerks that makes your point of view easier to understand. Have you ever ridden through an intersection in traffic with a few other cyclists?
Do you ride in traffic much?
I'm not saying what they did was legal, but it is possible it may have been safer. It also can be scary to sit in traffic at the light with the cars behind you, as they would have if they did not all go though at once.
I was not there, they may have been being jerks too. But this is what pops into my head when you describe what happened. It is hard to see the situation in your imagination when someone describes it on the forums too. But, It makes me wonder if you have ever had the experience that the cyclists were going through. If you have done It and still think they were being jerks that makes your point of view easier to understand. Have you ever ridden through an intersection in traffic with a few other cyclists?
Do you ride in traffic much?
08-20-05, 07:20 PM
#53
Senior Member
Originally Posted by genec
Gee this is exactly the way a military convoy operates... we don't seem to have issues with those other grouped users of the road.
08-21-05, 06:39 AM
#54
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I believe that there is a concept in traffic law that the person who had an opportunity to prevent an accident, and didn't, can be cited as being the one at fault, no matter what else.
So, if you see a bunch of cyclists who you believe have violated your right of way, and you have a chance to stop and prevent an accident, and you didn't and cause an accident, then you would be at fault in the accident, as I understand things.
That doesn't mean that the cyclists couldn't or shouldn't be ticketed if they broke the law, however.
But, life is too short to worry about losing two minutes waiting for a group of cyclists. Why not wave at them and enjoy the sight of folks out exercising and getting fit?
Instead, you could worry about:
Our soldiers in the Irag war
World hunger
The Homeless
Cancer
and a host of other more important things than bicyclists turning!
So, if you see a bunch of cyclists who you believe have violated your right of way, and you have a chance to stop and prevent an accident, and you didn't and cause an accident, then you would be at fault in the accident, as I understand things.
That doesn't mean that the cyclists couldn't or shouldn't be ticketed if they broke the law, however.
But, life is too short to worry about losing two minutes waiting for a group of cyclists. Why not wave at them and enjoy the sight of folks out exercising and getting fit?
Instead, you could worry about:
Our soldiers in the Irag war
World hunger
The Homeless
Cancer
and a host of other more important things than bicyclists turning!
08-21-05, 07:26 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by DnvrFox
But, life is too short to worry about losing two minutes waiting for a group of cyclists. Why not wave at them and enjoy the sight of folks out exercising and getting fit?
Instead, you could worry about:...and a host of other more important things than bicyclists turning!
Instead, you could worry about:...and a host of other more important things than bicyclists turning!
08-21-05, 08:15 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by bluejack
It would be nice -- as a society -- if we were able to occasionally suspend our rigid ruleset as a goodwill gesture to accomodate groups of people out enjoying the world, whether it's a "critical mass" of shabby slackers or packs of sleek roadies or impromptu parades or festivals or whatever. We have law to protect ourselves from each other, but sometimes we can suspend the rules in order to be nice to each other.
If you cede right of way when you have it, you're being nice. If you take it when you don't, making the the other guy be nice on your behalf, you're a 'hole. These guys were being 'holes.
Re: the comparison to funeral processions or military convoys: those are exemptions that are specifically written into the law, at least around here. Likening yourself to one of those is like saying that since I have a blinking red light on my bike I should be able to use the road like a fire truck on its way to a fire.
08-21-05, 10:10 AM
#57
I need more cowbell.
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It's taken longer to read this thread than the OP waited during the actual incident. Maybe I should throw something at somebody?
Seriously -- stuff happens every day. Throwing things at people will never make it better. My advice to the OP -- whether you were in the right or not, let it go. Get over it. Move on. Calm yourself. Not for the benefit of others, but for yourself.
Seriously -- stuff happens every day. Throwing things at people will never make it better. My advice to the OP -- whether you were in the right or not, let it go. Get over it. Move on. Calm yourself. Not for the benefit of others, but for yourself.
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08-21-05, 02:10 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by DCCommuter
Nice is good.
If you cede right of way when you have it, you're being nice. If you take it when you don't, making the the other guy be nice on your behalf, you're a 'hole. These guys were being 'holes.
Re: the comparison to funeral processions or military convoys: those are exemptions that are specifically written into the law, at least around here. Likening yourself to one of those is like saying that since I have a blinking red light on my bike I should be able to use the road like a fire truck on its way to a fire.
If you cede right of way when you have it, you're being nice. If you take it when you don't, making the the other guy be nice on your behalf, you're a 'hole. These guys were being 'holes.
Re: the comparison to funeral processions or military convoys: those are exemptions that are specifically written into the law, at least around here. Likening yourself to one of those is like saying that since I have a blinking red light on my bike I should be able to use the road like a fire truck on its way to a fire.
The blinky analogy is also right on.
08-21-05, 02:25 PM
#59
It's so cold out there...
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Originally Posted by fawelsh
What if you had you hit a couple of cyclists in the process? You would not have been at fault? Because you had the right of way?
I don't know why you think it's acceptable to threaten people's lives just to prove a point. Which is what? That cars have a right to the road? That your time is too precious to waste waiting two minutes for a group of cyclists to go by?
By the way, have you ever had someone throw something at you while you're biking? It's terrifying and infuriating. Had you not caused someone to crash you might very well have recieved a bike lock through your window.
They might not have been obeying the traffic laws, who knows they may have in fact been acting like jerks. But the fact that you felt justified in driving into them and/or throwing things at them makes you worse than them.
I don't know why you think it's acceptable to threaten people's lives just to prove a point. Which is what? That cars have a right to the road? That your time is too precious to waste waiting two minutes for a group of cyclists to go by?
By the way, have you ever had someone throw something at you while you're biking? It's terrifying and infuriating. Had you not caused someone to crash you might very well have recieved a bike lock through your window.
They might not have been obeying the traffic laws, who knows they may have in fact been acting like jerks. But the fact that you felt justified in driving into them and/or throwing things at them makes you worse than them.
reading what was written...
08-21-05, 07:52 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
I've ridden in groups lots of times. When the light changed and I wasn't past the white line, I stopped.
I have also had a light with a fast yellow make it hard to get out of a large intersection quickly. I have been in the lead and in the front section of a group and had others blindly follow through the intersection just out of inexperience. And there are jerks who just do it too by choice.
My thought is just that it's hard to know exactly what happened, and that a cyclist who has done that a few times would possibly be more patient or just have more empathy about all the things that could have happened. I don't really know the answer, I was just wondering if he could see the other point of view. I guess the answer is, It doesn't matter.
