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Bring back Elmer the Safety Elephant!

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Bring back Elmer the Safety Elephant!

Old 08-20-05, 01:54 PM
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Bring back Elmer the Safety Elephant!

I swear. They need to bring back this guy who always reminded kids and adults that you should "Look both ways before crossing the street". I experienced my first road rash last night.

*sigh*

I had gone to a poker game at a friend's house and had even stayed away from the booze since I was riding home and wanted my senses around me. Toronto had experienced a series of major storms and the roads, while dry by the time I left, would be filled with gawking drivers looking at the damage. The wind was against me but I was enjoying the 12-1am ride back home from my friend's house. I was about 5 minutes from home, barrelling down Sherbourne near the Phoenix Nightclub, when I saw two girls emerging from the club. I was tweeting my whistle and heard the cries of "Watch out!" from the bouncers but they were oblivious to it all. I tried braking but too late (I found the skid mark today when I went back to check things out). It was hard to go from 37.5KM/hr to 0KM/hr in less than a few feet.

*BAM*

Missed one, hit the other. She didn't seem to have anything broken but held her nose (no blood from what I saw). After the bouncers had checked them out (and admonished them for being in the bike lane to begin with), they came over to see how badly hurt I was. The only bloody part was my elbow, which was the "road rash" victim. My index finger had been jammed somewhat and I saw some bruising on my left calf. Otherwise I was relatively unhurt. As was my bike (only 2 months old at this point!). I had to put the chain back on (and on later inspection noticed that the left side of the handlebar tape had been sliced) but otherwise, the bike was fine and even the paint survived with one itty bitty scratch.

I suppose I should have been breaking sooner but geez. Brightly lit street, bike with 15W HID light, tweeting whistle and bouncers trying to warn you while you're jaywalking. Sorry but, IMHO, y'er at fault. If I had been a car, they'd be 50 feet further down the street and the coroner would be visiting.

I dunno. Is it that hard to look both ways first?
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Old 08-20-05, 03:11 PM
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I really hate to rain on your parade...but no matter what, pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way. End of story. They WERE being incredibly stupid by not looking but you had a legal obligation to yield to them. Same as if you where any other type of vehicle...if a pedestrian enters the roadway you must yield to them even if they're breaking the law by jaywalking.
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Old 08-20-05, 03:32 PM
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Actually, in Toronto it's an offense for pedestrians to "fail to yield to traffic" under the Ontario Traffic Act, Section 144(8) (as per this article). Technically, they don't have right of way. Right of way only applies here in cross-walks, not mid-street level.

A little further to this is Section 144(7):

Yielding to pedestrians

(7) When under this section a driver is permitted to proceed, the driver shall yield the right of way to pedestrians lawfully within a crosswalk
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Old 08-20-05, 04:03 PM
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Well, I'll be d**ned! That is the worst law I have ever heard of! It actually encourages vehicle operators to make unsafe choices in regards to other people's safety. I don't mean to say that pedestrians shouldn't obey the pedestrian laws, but that seems a bit harsh to leave them in the cold with avoidable accidents being encouraged by the law stating that the vehicle is allowed to proceed even when a pedestrian is failing to yield!
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Old 08-20-05, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by myates1980
Well, I'll be d**ned! That is the worst law I have ever heard of! It actually encourages vehicle operators to make unsafe choices in regards to other people's safety. I don't mean to say that pedestrians shouldn't obey the pedestrian laws, but that seems a bit harsh to leave them in the cold with avoidable accidents being encouraged by the law stating that the vehicle is allowed to proceed even when a pedestrian is failing to yield!
While jaywalking occurs regularly and part-time, seasonal or simply irresponsible cyclists sometimes make for dangerous situations, the law makes sense to me and seems to work, for the most part. Not to seem in defence of motorists (lord knows they often create perilous situations for cyclists), it seems ridiculous to me that a motorist proceeding in their lane in the right-of-way would be guilty of an offence if some moron stepped off the sidewalk right in front of them. It's impossible to stop a car, even at a moderate, safe speed, that quickly.

And, MsMittens, I'm glad you're relatively okay. I know the area you were in pretty well (I work close to there) and know that cycling near any club can be hazardous with unpredictable clubbers. Why didn't you consider calling the police? Technically, it is a traffic accident with injuries (though minor) and if you discovered any damage to your bike later, the young women would have been liable. You also had witnesses. The only reason I suggest it is that I had a similar incident a few years back (a truck exiting a laneway failed to yield at the sidewalk and struck my eight year-old son). After ensuring there were no damages at the time and giving the very apologetic driver a sound tongue-lashing, I realized both my sons bike and mine (from falling hard as I dove to catch him) had sustained minor damage and his helmet needed replacing. I didn't discover the damage until after we had recovered from shaking and the driver was long gone by then. I wish I had contacted the cops at the time and reported the incident. In spite of the driver acknowledging his fault, he also should have been made to pay for the damages. Hopefully, you'll heal up quickly and there's nothing seriously wrong with your bike.
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Old 08-20-05, 04:43 PM
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Why didn't you consider calling the police?
Much like you're description of your incident, I was rather shaken by it. In all the time I've been cycling, it's a first for me.

And the bike is fine. Did 86KM today. The bruising is coming in at a nice purple colour now on the hips and calves. And the stiff neck gives me an excuse to get the SO to give me a neck massage.

As for the issue of Pedestrian Right-of-Way. I'm becoming more convinced that this is a myth. Reason? Jaywalking in most juristications is considered against the law. If it wasn't then the pedestrian has right of way, regardless of being within the cross walk or not. (I wonder if this is the case in New Brunswick which has the oddest drivers I find --- they'll stop even if you look across the street, never mind actually crossing). If jaywalking is a crime (by-law or otherwise), then the pedestrian does not have right of way.

I did try to stop and I should have attempted to slow down earlier (although I was below the 40KM/Hr speed limit that's for that major street). But it's my belief that pedestrians should take responsibility for their actions on the road as much as cyclists, cars and trucks. They are part of the whole flow of things.
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Old 08-21-05, 06:22 AM
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I really think this must be a purely Canadian thing...even if it isn't enforced pretty much all American cities have identical bylaws stating that roadway vehicles must yield to all pedestrians entering the roadway regardless of their "right of way" to enter that roadway. It varies from city to city, but in Seattle if you don't stop your car for a pedestrian you can be ticketed for failing to yield...the pedestrian will also be ticketed for jaywalking. The contradiction in these laws is meant to protect the slower moving pedestrians.
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Old 08-21-05, 06:24 AM
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I understand the being shaken up part all too well and can sympathize. It makes sense you wouldn't have thought of calling the cops right away. I'm relieved to hear the bike is okay and you're able to ride in spite of the colourful bruises. And you're right about the right-of-way too. It makes no sense how it could be against regulations to jaywalk, but not your fault if you get hit while doing it. Everyone has to take responsibility for their actions. I only wish they did more often.
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Old 08-21-05, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by myates1980
I really hate to rain on your parade...but no matter what, pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way. End of story. They WERE being incredibly stupid by not looking but you had a legal obligation to yield to them. Same as if you where any other type of vehicle...if a pedestrian enters the roadway you must yield to them even if they're breaking the law by jaywalking.
Maybe they do in Pennsylvania, but not everywhere. In many places, they only have the right of way in marked crosswalks. There have been some pedestrians killed while jaywalking here, and no charges have been filed.
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Old 08-21-05, 09:58 AM
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The contradiction in these laws is meant to protect the slower moving pedestrians.
Hrmm.. I'm beginning to wonder if it also contradicts the laws of physics. What's that rule? An object in motion will always stay in motion. When you think of the weight of a vehicle and the weight of the average person, which is easier to stop in motion? Car or person? I'd be apt to say the person. I know as a cyclist it is hard sometimes to stop on a dime (no ABS braking). It does make logical sense, to me anyways, that onus be primarily on the pedestrian to be aware and yield to traffic since it's easier for a person to stop (this is coming from someone who's main modes of travel are walking, public transit or bicycling).

Thankfully, I'm in limbo mode at work (between semesters) and leave for a nice little tour in a week (plus I have a nice long massage therapy session already planned for Friday). Should be all recovered in time for my Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal trip.
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Old 08-21-05, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
Maybe they do in Pennsylvania, but not everywhere. In many places, they only have the right of way in marked crosswalks. There have been some pedestrians killed while jaywalking here, and no charges have been filed.
No, I'm not saying they retain any sort of "right of way" but the blame is shared between the motorist and the pedestrian...if it came down to an insurance descision, then the motorist's insurance would NOT have to pay.
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