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meontheweb 05-10-26 10:45 PM

Self-awareness
 
So I live in an area where sidewalks on one side of the street are extra wide as they are meant for cyclists and pedestrians. You don't want to ride on the road in this area (residential, but people are not aware of their surroundings). Like most people, I do ride on the sidewalk and follow the rules -- but seriously, people are simply not self-aware of their surroundings. They are so glued to their phones either talking or staring at them that when I shout out "on your left" they have no idea what to do; or think I'm yelling out to someone else; or simply ignore me. Or people walk right in the middle of the sidewalk - not on the right or left - but right down the middle.

I'm thinking of getting something that will make some noise or just a buzzer to warn people but my boys have said that if I keep adding gadgets to my bike it will look like Pee-Wee Herman's!!! LOL... and they've threatened to buy me streamers for my handlebars. LOL!

If I am able to, I will ride on the side of the road. I have a blinker on the back of my bike, and a headlight and I wear a safety vest no matter what time of day I go out an of course, always wear a helmet.

What else can I do to ensure my own safety? Anything else that's a good idea to buy?

I Like To Ride 05-11-26 02:45 AM

Stop yelling OYL at other people. Get a loud bell or some kind of a horn and remember that pedestrians always have the right of way. Yes I know that many people are addicted to staring at their phones, this includes pedestrians, cyclists and drivers. It is what it is and it's your responsibility to work your way around it an make sure that you don't hit somebody or that somebody doesn't hit you.

'02 nrs 05-11-26 03:04 AM


Originally Posted by meontheweb (Post 23742647)

What else can I do to ensure my own safety? Anything else that's a good idea to buy?

stay off sidewalks when pedestrians are on it and be sure your health insurance is paid in full when riding in the road.key defense is listening so you can tell when to hug the curb.and have faith.

Iride01 05-11-26 07:42 AM

Realize that after a while, those that walk often will become aware of what you are saying. It also helps to add a cordial hello, good morning or other as you pass them. That way they'll realize you aren't some grouchy old fart. I often get thanked by the regular walkers on the MUP here for saying OYL. They, like me when I'm walking get annoyed by the many cyclist that don't say anything.

Those that react in odd ways to my OYL are virtually always noobs to walking. Or are just out for their one time walk in the spring or fall when the weather drew them out. And seeing them react soon enough to be able to change my line or stop is useful. I'd sure hate to have them startle when I get close enough for them to hear the bicycle and can't take evasive action. I've had some turn around and step over into the space I was going to pass them in suddenly when they startle.

I'm on the fence about bells. Electronic bells are difficult to tell what direction they come from. Or even whether they are on nearby roads through the trees and brush. And get a bunch of bicycles with tinkling bells in close proximity, whether brass bell or electronic, then it's going to get annoying. At least it seems it would to me.

I don't ride sidewalks. Even where it's allowed. I will ride a MUP if it's for recreation.

Added 05/12/2026
Just to update since it's been mentioned by others that walkers don't always hear anything but "left" and some take that a a command to move left. I tend to agree with them on that part. And even I wouldn't take commands well from others if I heard them.

I typically say "I'm passing on your left" particularly if I think it's a noob I'm calling out too. I do shorten it to "passing left" to those I've seen regularly. And I enunciate it in a clear loud voice that can be heard from about 3 seconds away. And that might take practice for some that don't know how to get sound out of their bodies when gasping for air from a hard effort while riding.

rumrunn6 05-11-26 07:59 AM

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e77e19bd00.jpg

Put a Bell on Your Bicycle


meontheweb 05-11-26 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by Iride01 (Post 23742756)
Realize that after a while, those that walk often will become aware of what you are saying. It also helps to add a cordial hello, good morning or other as you pass them. That way they'll realize you aren't some grouchy old fart. I often get thanked by the regular walkers on the MUP here for saying OYL. They, like me when I'm walking get annoyed by the many cyclist that don't say anything.

Those that react in odd ways to my OYL are virtually always noobs to walking. Or are just out for their one time walk in the spring or fall when the weather drew them out. And seeing them react soon enough to be able to change my line or stop is useful. I'd sure hate to have them startle when I get close enough for them to hear the bicycle and can't take evasive action. I've had some turn around and step over into the space I was going to pass them in suddenly when they startle.

I'm on the fence about bells. Electronic bells are difficult to tell what direction they come from. Or even whether they are on nearby roads through the trees and brush. And get a bunch of bicycles with tinkling bells in close proximity, whether brass bell or electronic, then it's going to get annoying. At least it seems it would to me.

I don't ride sidewalks. Even where it's allowed. I will ride a MUP if it's for recreation.

I would ride on the street, but it's not safe. The road is narrow and usually cars parked on the side.

Our area has been traffic calmed which is why the road is narrow - so huge islands down the middle of the road.

There are areas where you can't ride on the sidewalk, and in those areas I will use the road but it's a heavily residential area so very little traffic so I feel safe.

But even on the sidewalk, and crossing streets I've had three or four close calls.

meontheweb 05-11-26 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by '02 nrs (Post 23742679)
stay off sidewalks when pedestrians are on it and be sure your health insurance is paid in full when riding in the road.key defense is listening so you can tell when to hug the curb.and have faith.

I've seen what happens to cyclist when they get hit - we've even got dedicated bike lanes once you head into various parts of the city (I am in a suburb of Vancouver, BC Canada). It's really hard to hug the curb as there are cars parked and as the area is traffic calmed (hasn't helped) the city has installed huge islands in the middle of the road. The city recommends riding on the sidewalk in our area, not the road.

I'm usually only on this part of my neighborhood for about 15 - 20 minutes.

Health insurance is free (mostly) as I'm in Canada. :) But last thing I want is wings... or a lengthy hospital stay.

meontheweb 05-11-26 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by I Like To Ride (Post 23742677)
Stop yelling OYL at other people. Get a loud bell or some kind of a horn and remember that pedestrians always have the right of way. Yes I know that many people are addicted to staring at their phones, this includes pedestrians, cyclists and drivers. It is what it is and it's your responsibility to work your way around it an make sure that you don't hit somebody or that somebody doesn't hit you.

Most definately! I only started saying OYL when I had other riders pass me when I was walking.

I always give them the right of way, and the city has placed signs along the sidewalk letting everyone know it is a shared walkway but the last thing I want to do is hit anyone so I'm always very cautious.

I will need to look at a loud bell.

veganbikes 05-11-26 02:17 PM

Never say on your "left or right" it is the most useless command. "Coming up behind you" makes them hopefully stop and think rather than moving left or right instinctually. However having a bell helps however I will only ride on a sidewalk in an emergency or for a very short period just to avoid some crazy traffic or danger and in that period I am waiting for pedestrians and not really trying to pass them. I ride on the road and I am happily taking my lane and being confident in that I give clear hand singles if I am turning and am trying to ride predictably. Sidewalks are bad places to ride anyway I am much happier on the road with other wheeled traffic unless it is a really super fast moving road and no good shoulder and people are literally trying to kill me but those places are fewer and farther between. Certainly cars aren't our friends but at least the places I have rode are generally friendly enough or aren't actively trying to kill me and more just crappy drivers.

RCMoeur 05-11-26 02:45 PM

In dense urban areas, hit-from-behind crashes are often perceived to be the greatest risk, but comprise a very small percentage of total crashes. Low speeds on traffic-calmed streets typically result in increased perception / reaction times and lower kinetic energies in case of a collision. But more important, there are much more common crashes that can cause serious injury that sidewalk riding can increase the risk of - hitting fixed objects, striking pedestrians, or having a vehicle which can't easily see you on the sidewalk pull out in front of you from a driveway or side street or turn across your path.

I remember long ago when I was advised that riding in the street reduced overall risk, and I didn't believe it at first - until I started doing it on a regular basis. Now I won't ride sidewalks unless I (typically) I'm walking my bike along it. It's true you can't directly control the attentiveness or behavior of drivers coming up behind you. But on a calmed street the speed differential is less, and you're placing yourself where drivers typically look for other conflicting traffic, and will generally adjust to minimize conflicts.

RCMoeur 05-11-26 02:50 PM

When encountering people who aren't experienced cyclists, I've discovered saying "on your left" often gets the wrong result, as the pedestrian or rider primarily hears and processes the "left" part and moves leftward in presumed compliance. I use a bell, reduce speed if needed, and offer a greeting such as "good ___" to (try to) gain their attention and then pass when there is an opportunity. That being said, I've discovered pedestrians or riders with earphones or in large groups can be utterly oblivious to any outside stimuli short of a medium-size nuclear detonation, and I try to give them a very wide berth. Which is much easier on the street than on a sidewalk, admittedly.

meontheweb 05-11-26 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by RCMoeur (Post 23743055)
When encountering people who aren't experienced cyclists, I've discovered saying "on your left" often gets the wrong result, as the pedestrian or rider primarily hears and processes the "left" part and moves leftward in presumed compliance. I use a bell, reduce speed if needed, and offer a greeting such as "good ___" to (try to) gain their attention and then pass when there is an opportunity. That being said, I've discovered pedestrians or riders with earphones or in large groups can be utterly oblivious to any outside stimuli short of a medium-size nuclear detonation, and I try to give them a very wide berth. Which is much easier on the street than on a sidewalk, admittedly.

That actually makes sense - probably a bell would be the best thing.

meontheweb 05-11-26 04:06 PM

This is part of the area I ride in...

There are usually cars parked on the right & left side and the road is pretty narrow - it would be tight if if someone wanted to get past me.

Unfortunately it's always busy as this is one of two main roads in the area. On the far end of the island is a huge residential development along with commercial and 80% use this street to get in/out. The area is over developed for the number of ways to get in/out.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9fef49b11b.png

SpedFast 05-11-26 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by meontheweb (Post 23743101)
This is part of the area I ride in...

There are usually cars parked on the right & left side and the road is pretty narrow - it would be tight if if someone wanted to get past me.

Unfortunately it's always busy as this is one of two main roads in the area. On the far end of the island is a huge residential development along with commercial and 80% use this street to get in/out. The area is over developed for the number of ways to get in/out.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9fef49b11b.png


It would be interpreted by me that if it's posted for bikes and peds it has become a MUP. Bells are a universal call out, but I still prefer calling "OYL" and watching for the direction they turn so I can take the other side. And then while passing I say, "Thank you" to show my appreciation. Rarely though do experienced walkers just turn and act dumbfounded. Most just move to the right and let me pass without incident. Good luck and keep riding.

meontheweb 05-11-26 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by SpedFast (Post 23743109)
It would be interpreted by me that if it's posted for bikes and peds it has become a MUP. Bells are a universal call out, but I still prefer calling "OYL" and watching for the direction they turn so I can take the other side. And then while passing I say, "Thank you" to show my appreciation. Rarely though do experienced walkers just turn and act dumbfounded. Most just move to the right and let me pass without incident. Good luck and keep riding.

Yup - it is a multi-use path.

Thanks!

I-Like-To-Bike 05-11-26 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by RCMoeur (Post 23743052)
In dense urban areas, hit-from-behind crashes are often perceived to be the greatest risk, but comprise a very small percentage of total crashes. Low speeds on traffic-calmed streets typically result in increased perception / reaction times and lower kinetic energies in case of a collision. But more important, there are much more common crashes that can cause serious injury that sidewalk riding can increase the risk of - hitting fixed objects, striking pedestrians, or having a vehicle which can't easily see you on the sidewalk pull out in front of you from a driveway or side street or turn across your path.

I remember long ago when I was advised that riding in the street reduced overall risk, and I didn't believe it at first - until I started doing it on a regular basis. Now I won't ride sidewalks unless I (typically) I'm walking my bike along it. It's true you can't directly control the attentiveness or behavior of drivers coming up behind you. But on a calmed street the speed differential is less, and you're placing yourself where drivers typically look for other conflicting traffic, and will generally adjust to minimize conflicts.

Though many posters have previously made similar comments in the dormant Vehicular Cycling sticky, you should know better than to conflate "overall risk" or "greatest risk" for bicyclists from cycling in various traffic scenarios with a number of total crashes or numbers of "conflicts", without regards to the liklihood of the severity of injuries suffered by bicyclists in those various traffic scenarios.
Nor is actual risk measured or calculated by a bicyclist's belief being changed by anecdotal experience.

Trakhak 05-11-26 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by meontheweb (Post 23743097)
That actually makes sense - probably a bell would be the best thing.

Another possibility:

Coming up behind walkers, I close to about 20 or 25 feet, slow to their pace, and begin clicking a shifter or a brake lever every couple of seconds.

They usually notice the noise within 5 seconds or so and look behind.

When they see me, they always move aside. I then proceed past slowly and thank them. They usually thank me in return.

spclark 05-11-26 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by meontheweb (Post 23742959)
The city recommends riding on the sidewalk in our area, not the road.

Hmmmm... interesting this.


Originally Posted by meontheweb (Post 23742959)
Health insurance is free (mostly) as I'm in Canada.

So the city's recommending putting bicyclists in conflict with pedestrians on sidewalks while bicyclists in other countries are considered vehicular traffic and (assuming age of riders) belong on the streets?

That 'single payer' concept then has liability for both bicycle riders and pedestrians injured when the two should suffer mishaps?

Do Canadians benefit from having personal liability insurance in any meaningful way?

Do Canadian motor vehicle drivers have to purchase liability insurance? If they do, does that routinely cover liability when other-than-vehicle accidents occur?

Paul Barnard 05-11-26 07:36 PM

Get one of those canned air horns.

RCMoeur 05-11-26 08:19 PM

Thanks for posting the Street View shot. I wasn't familiar with the regulatory sign to the right, and I didn't see it in my TAC Canadian MUTCD. A short search indicates it's a British Columbia R-111 sign for combination bike + ped crosswalks. Given it's a black on white regulatory sign I had originally interpreted it as being a mandatory bike use of pathway sign, which may not be the explicit meaning, but its presence and use implies cyclists are expected to ride on the sidepath.

flangehead 05-11-26 10:35 PM


Originally Posted by meontheweb (Post 23742647)
……If I am able to, I will ride on the side of the road. I have a blinker on the back of my bike, and a headlight and I wear a safety vest no matter what time of day I go out an of course, always wear a helmet.

What else can I do to ensure my own safety? Anything else that's a good idea to buy?

Mirror.

redshift1 05-12-26 03:39 AM

From an absolute personal safety perspective, my advice is stay off the roads. Especially if you have a family. I take my chances with pedestrians on dual use paths as the consequences of injury to the rider is vastly less than what you chance on the street. Nor am I disregarding injuring pedestrians. If I approach a pedestrian I use a bell. No potentially confusing words needed as the message here is clear enough and I occasionally get a wave from an intelligent pedestrian who thinks to acknowledge the bell ring so that I know he/she is aware I am approaching and thus won't do anything stupid. But most don't...Then there are the earplugged equipped who are oblivious to my presence. I also set up to take avoiding action for these latter ones if they suddenly wander off course. And don't forget to check behind you as you overtake in case some impatient cyclist is approaching from behind you.

If you are going to ride on the roads, mitigate the risk by choosing side roads if you can, even if the trip is longer. Also you asked what you can buy. I would not be without my Garmin radar (detects cars approaching from behind if you don't know) the short times I am on roads between cycleways, and my mirror. The radar is amazingly reliable and the mirror is used once a "threat" is detected, so I can keep my eye on the approaching car. But if you choose to ride on busy roads, the radar warning tones will be continuous so not much use.

Iride01 05-12-26 08:58 AM

That picture in post 13 doesn't look too busy. Though maybe that's a lax time for traffic.

Granted there will always be a question of how much risk is it. But I've never had issues with even more traffic than that. And going through two lane round-a-bouts at a very busy location here. Cars and drivers do not want to cause you harm or themselves the inconvenience of having to deal with police or insurance adjusters.

A few might think about it, but it's only the very unlikely morally absent and statistically few that take action. And no one knows where they will be when they get triggered.

meontheweb 05-12-26 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by redshift1 (Post 23743352)
From an absolute personal safety perspective, my advice is stay off the roads. Especially if you have a family. I take my chances with pedestrians on dual use paths as the consequences of injury to the rider is vastly less than what you chance on the street. Nor am I disregarding injuring pedestrians. If I approach a pedestrian I use a bell. No potentially confusing words needed as the message here is clear enough and I occasionally get a wave from an intelligent pedestrian who thinks to acknowledge the bell ring so that I know he/she is aware I am approaching and thus won't do anything stupid. But most don't...Then there are the earplugged equipped who are oblivious to my presence. I also set up to take avoiding action for these latter ones if they suddenly wander off course. And don't forget to check behind you as you overtake in case some impatient cyclist is approaching from behind you.

If you are going to ride on the roads, mitigate the risk by choosing side roads if you can, even if the trip is longer. Also you asked what you can buy. I would not be without my Garmin radar (detects cars approaching from behind if you don't know) the short times I am on roads between cycleways, and my mirror. The radar is amazingly reliable and the mirror is used once a "threat" is detected, so I can keep my eye on the approaching car. But if you choose to ride on busy roads, the radar warning tones will be continuous so not much use.

You're the third person that suggested a radar -- and oddly enough it seems to come up quite often when I search for bicycle safety. I believe the APP I'm using now also connects with various radar systems, I think I'll need to invest in one. I did put mirrors on my bike, but honestly they don't work very well (IMO). If the car is running with DRL then they are easy to spot, but otherwise not so great. Doesn't help that I need glasses for distance, or reading and I don't have bifocals so the view in the mirror is blurry at best. LOL. So wearing my readers - and I can't see in the distance... wear my distance glasses and I can't see things up close.

Thx!

meontheweb 05-12-26 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by Iride01 (Post 23743505)
That picture in post 13 doesn't look too busy. Though maybe that's a lax time for traffic.

Granted there will always be a question of how much risk is it. But I've never had issues with even more traffic than that. And going through two lane round-a-bouts at a very busy location here. Cars and drivers do not want to cause you harm or themselves the inconvenience of having to deal with police or insurance adjusters.

A few might think about it, but it's only the very unlikely morally absent and statistically few that take action. And no one knows where they will be when they get triggered.

It's much busier in the late evening. I usually go out around 2hrs before sunset as it's getting nice and cool by then.

Drivers in Vancouver do not like bicycles. Many are distracted, so being on this narrowish road is always a bit unsafe. Also recently our insurance laws changed to no-fault, so if you're badly injured all you are getting is what insurance says and it's not a lot. :-(


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