You are all missing the point of these riders. I would bet that all of them are messengers. Yes, they almost hit a lot of people and almost cause accidents, but that is just your perception. Probably none of you have ridden in this manner and don't understand that to make a living as a messenger it is expected that you ride this way and it's certainly a lot safer than the chickens&!$ manner that most of you would ride through gridlock urban traffic. If they don't ride this way someone else will and take their job. Most messengers get paid by the job, the faster they ride, the more money they make. And cops and businessman don't have them busted because they want the stuff they are delivering for them now. If businesses didn't want crazy messengers flying through their city they would stop using them, but they know that no car or scooter is getting through that gridlock.

All of you posters calling these riders dumb or stupid know that these messengers could ride circles around you even after a couple of 40oz pit stops. It's not a political statement, they are showing off, more like a Warren Miller Video than an NRA rally (what a tenuous analogy that was.)

Despite all of the near misses, that is what they are near misses and almost getting hit. In 7 years of messengering I hit two peds, one jaywalking mid street at a full run who didn't look, and I bet he's still glad I hit him instead of the bus that was behind me. And a woman who flung her arm into traffic while hailing a cab.

If you can't appreciate the skills that this kind of riding requires and the desire to ride like they do then just go back to your safe little bike lanes and shut up.

Well, at least I have seen the type of respondent that hails from either side of the fence. Looks like I'm a big chicken$%@ sissy because I don't run into pedestrians.

Well, if you say so, but I didn't see anyone hit any peds.
But obviously the rest of you have a lock on what defines safe riding.

You're right. It's not in the video. It's in your post.

Do we really need ANOTHER thread on these films?

I mean, really. Do a search!

Impeccable reasoning, Treespeed. Riding like that is "certainly a lot safer" than obeying traffic rules, and say, not running red lights when cars and pedestrians are midway through them, or going the wrong way down a one-way street at break-neck speeds, having just consumed a 40oz. How could a sissy like me have been so dumb as to miss that.

Semi-trucks and taxi-cabs could probably make more money if they drove their routes faster. Would you want that?

I have a feeling you've represented yourself, and plenty of people who ride like this, quite well. so thanks, at least, for that. Yes, I bet you could bike better than me while drunk on alcohol. You could probably drive a car better than me while drunk on alcohol, too. Please don't do either, though. I'll just take it on faith. No need to prove it, okay.

P.S. Impeccable means without flaw.

I think you should worry about the impression you make on your bike and let them worry about the impression they make. Projecting from one or several cyclists' behavior to all cyclists behavior is ultimately as pointless as trying to do the same for motorists.

I view these videos are sort of a documentary snapshot of one curious and perhaps dangerous (but only to those who choose to participate) version of bicycle racing that is meant primarily as entertainment, no sense getting your panties all bunched up trying to spin it as either good or bad for bicycle advocacy, because IMO, it's neither.

What's not good for bicycling advocacy is all the backstabbing going on between each and every one of y'all that thinks you know the only correct way to ride a bicycle in traffic; so instead of being a loosely organized and powerful force for change with many different viewpoints and styles represented, we choose instead to descend into stupid infighting over who is the most correct, which ultimately gets us exactly nowhere.

Just out of curiosity, where exactly did any of you get the idea that these were anarchists making a political statement?

What it comes right down is that there are all kinds of people in the world, among the cycling community as well as the larger world. We know better than to judge all cyclists by this behavior, and we hope that most motorists know better too. It's easy to blame riders like this when we get nervous that some motorists don't know the difference, rather than blaming the motorist for judging all of us by these cyclists' behavior.

P.S. False analogy, means flawed logic.

Considering that thousands of people are killed by cars each year and closer to zero are killed by cyclists I think your analogy comparing messengers to wrong way trucks is pretty weak.

Thanks for the condescension obviously a dumb old messenger could never understand satire or the meaning of impeccable. I've obviously shamed the noble cycling community and I will now don my orange safety reflective vest and hug the far right curb as I slink back home.

My friends and I used to do exactly this type of thing when we were teens. I grew out of it, and so will most of the kids in the video -- of course, some will never grow out of it because they'll end up dead.

Do you honestly believe that there are people that don't make blanket judgements based on the actions of a few?

When a man in a truck swerves and says, "F'n cyclists! Get off the road!" do you think that he is JUST referring to you?

Heck, why don't we just shoot a few of them, maybe that will make our point even better?
If you're so concerned about the air we breathe, why don't you get off that computer and get rid of it? Generating electricity also puts fossil fuel pollution into the air.

I'd love to see a video of sensitive messangers, clad in 4k watts of lighting power on 3-speed internal hubbed bicycles wearing three-peace tweed suits with bright orange reflective vests. Maybe top it off with another 400 or so watts of lighting on their helmets all riding single file, drafting off each other at speeds no more than 15 MPH delivering their packages. Somehow I have a vision of a Pink Floyd-esque (p.s. that means in the manner of Pink Floyd's previous videos) video.

Bottom line, nobody is saying they're in the right. I, personally, do not ride like that because where I am, in urban sprawl, I'd get killed. Instead I beg for the scraps of space that is afforded to me on the road, pleading - yelling and screaming like the rest of us do for just 1% of the respect I feel I deserve. On the other hand, these guys obviously are doing something right in their communities (sorta) in that this is where the standard is set for their occupation.

There is no side to take on this ultimately, if someone road like I did in NYC, they would be killed quickly, and if I road like they do here, the same result would happen.


Now, back to your corners boys! No need to get all froggy about it.

p.s. froggy means jumpy.

All the 'politically correct' cycling in the world isn't going to change these people's minds. Not now, not ever.

Well, when I'm out riding, I do everything in my power to not 'convert' someone to a hater.

I hope that guy gets run over

ok...so i had time to read what must be bikeforum's longest post-reply on a topic..ever, while the video loaded. i time to read it all...quite articulate, all of you. very impressive back and forth. nice volley of point, counter-point.

but i have to say after watching the video...WOW! I'm thinking 3-D IMAX...wouldn't that be cool with that semi approaching? could be a rush to watch. don't condone what those crazy guys are doing, but it was a cool video. yea, stupid stunt, but pretty exciting to see. don't try this at home, kids!

i hope you get run over

Second that.

I dunno about you fellas, but the NYC video was much cooler than the Baltimore video. Except that the Baltimore dude wears the same gloves I do. Dope.

- Warren

"I hope you get run over."

"I hope YOU get run over."

"Yea, me too!"

This is some nice Point, Counter-Point, eh? :rolleyes:

Not mocking you, CycleMagic, just the hilarious return to elementary school.

For a short while I thought we had folks from the BMX forum posting here... :D

i wouldn't mind to be able to ride like that. i probably wouldn't make a habit of it, but that was BOSS.

i dont know which is lamer, this thread or the 'lance rides with w' thread. I think the video is sick.

P.S sick means "cool" these days. I couldnt resist. :)