Originally Posted by gpljr75

Well, I'm still going to hold out hope that one of these days I'm going to open up one of these forums and see a new thread by Treespeed titled "Why I think messenging is a good thing but oppose the digave videos" or something like that. To be honest, the reason for your reluctance to make a clear statement of opposition to what we see in these videos is a little puzzling to me. On other matters, you seem willing to make a stand even though there is very little chance your chastisement in these forums or the disruption of a CM ride, etc. will make one bit of difference about who is the president or what is happening to the environment. Yet here, where you have the opportunity to speak as a senior peer, you decide not to because you say it won't make a difference. Why are you willing to be an idealist in one context but only a pragmatist in another? But as I said, I hold out hope.

By the way, please don't think you've shown my arguments against this behavior to be fallacious just because you accuse me of using strained analogies. First of all, any analogy can be deconstructed because anyone can show how the two things being compared do not correspond in one to one fashion. That's not hard to do, and it doesn't prove anything. Second of all, I stand by each one that I used, even the one about firearms. You have to understand the dillemma I was in at that time. You, as a result of not actually having watched the video, were advocating an absurd notion (biking recklessly while drunk is "certainly" a lot safer than what some slow bike-laner is doing). The analogies I used described absurd behavior in hopes of trying to jar you out of your own absurdity. I'm not denying they were absurd ideas; I was just trying to show you that what you were advocating was quite absurd as well.

But all that is pretty much moot, because you admit (however indirectly) that these videos are displaying absurd behaviors that ought not be imitated.

Okay, now supper.

Originally Posted by Treespeed

Supper sounds nice,

but since mine is a few hours and a ride home away I'll reply. I don't want to rehash our old analogies. They both have their faults. While one can argue that the messengers actions are in some way political, because everything we do in a public forum is in some way political, I don't think their intent is political. That is of course just my assumption. I will not come out and condemn these riders, because I don't find the videos or the rider's actions objectionable.
The only thing I'm conceding is that I can understand how other's find it objectionable. The same way that some folks find prostitution and heroin use objectionable, but I'm honestly not bothered by it, and I'm not going to go on record on a public forum condemning folks for it. Most of all because it would be extremely hypocritical of me (in regards to messengering, not the prostitution and heroin.) I rode exactly like many of those videos and have ridden drunk on many occasions (it's not illegal in Washington State.) I have scared the cr@$ out of peds & tourists and infuriated thousands of drivers. But I've also been assaulted, deliberately ran off the road and the two peds I have hit were the cause of the accidents. It is an incredibly hard job and until you've done it I think you need to be a little more forgiving in your commentary. You're more than welcome to think that they're jerks, but I'm sure many would take it as a compliment. I know back then I would have. But I bet if you go into any city and find the bar where the messengers hang you'd probably find them all to be pretty cool folks. Especially if you bought everyone a round of drinks first, but I guess that's true of most people.

Originally Posted by supertj

If a biker flew across the intersection and the only thing I can do to stop from hitting the biker is either hitting the brakes hard or swerving, I will choose to end the biker's life. Lame video. I'm sure they had fun. Good for them.

Originally Posted by galen_52657

So, I guess if a pedestrian is in the road crossing against the light, you would not hit the brakes or make any attempt to avoid a collision? Just continue on and run the person over? I hope you do that in the wrong neighborhood once and when you stop (unless you are planning on leaving the scene of a personal injury accident) the locals pull you out of your car and beat you to death.

Originally Posted by Kyle90

must bump this.. Oh, and I ride like this all the time. You must hate me for not caring.

Originally Posted by Treespeed

P.S. False analogy, means flawed logic.

Considering that thousands of people are killed by cars each year and closer to zero are killed by cyclists I think your analogy comparing messengers to wrong way trucks is pretty weak.

Thanks for the condescension obviously a dumb old messenger could never understand satire or the meaning of impeccable. I've obviously shamed the noble cycling community and I will now don my orange safety reflective vest and hug the far right curb as I slink back home.

Originally Posted by skookum

I hope that guy gets run over