Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Here's the attitude I deal with on my commute in Atlanta

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Here's the attitude I deal with on my commute in Atlanta

Old 09-14-05, 01:14 PM
  #26  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
If you cringe from than thought, you must be in denial about the fact that incompetent driving that could have been fixed with better driver education is factor in only a tiny percentage of car-bike collisions and fatalities.

I cringe at the thought of the vast majority of cyclist deaths and injuries that are caused by a lack of cyclist education, which is ultimately caused by a lack of concern in the cycling community about educating cyclists, which is instead cringing about relatively minor problems over which they have little or no control.
Jeeze... another over the top statement about cyclists' education while totally regarding the lack of education by those piloting 4000 lb vehicles on the roads with impunity.

Regarding cyclist education... of the 700 or so killed last year, how many were experienced verses inexperienced? Is there any data available on cyclist experience or training verses accident rate?

And how do you plan on reaching those inexperienced cyclists with education programs anyway?
genec is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:18 PM
  #27  
Too Much Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 3,660

Bikes: Eriksen 29er, Gunnar Roadie, Niner RLT, Niner RIP 9

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Actually, the second guy is just being honest and makes a good point.
Agreed.

The first response is ignorant. What is wrong with the second ?

It is a rant section.

He didn't say ' If he doesn't stay on the sidewalk he will become a hood ornament'
C Law is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:20 PM
  #28  
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,764

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 1,293 Times in 819 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
If you cringe from than thought, you must be in denial about the fact that incompetent driving that could have been fixed with better driver education is factor in only a tiny percentage of car-bike collisions and fatalities.

I cringe at the thought of the vast majority of cyclist deaths and injuries that are caused by a lack of cyclist education, which is ultimately caused by a lack of concern in the cycling community about educating cyclists, which is instead cringing about relatively minor problems over which they have little or no control.
This is where Serge and I differ. I believe that, through tactful-but-outspoken political advocacy, we CAN have at least some control over motorist accountability and bicycle-friendly road and intersection design. Although I concur that bad cycling causes more cyclist deaths than bad motoring, bad (incompetent, inattentive, inebriated, impatient, irate, etc.) motorists are, by default, the greatest threat to lawful vehicular "effective" cyclists. Just ask Dave and Betty Johnson or the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, Ken Keiffer, or Patrick Klokow. Let us accept the often-stated assertion that bicycling is roughly as safe as motoring. The last time I checked, motor vehicle collisions were the greatest killer of teenagers and young adults. Is a fatality rate of three TWA Flight 800s per week acceptable? We can do much better, America, but it will require attitude adjustment, education, and an ethical regard for one's fellow citizens.

I do not "lack concern about educating cyclists," (I have politely told plenty of bicyclists to get on the right side of the road, to get lights, to stay LEFT of right-turn-only lanes, etc.) but this is only part of the equation.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:38 PM
  #29  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Actually, the second guy is just being honest and makes a good point. "Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."

Does anyone expect drivers to care about cyclists? Wake up!

Does anyone seriously doubt that cyclists should watch where we're going in order to avoid becoming hood ornaments? Of course we should!
I was critizing only the first point and noting that the editors should have made a editorial comment about what is legal.

I do want (but dont expect) drivers to care about cyclist, just as I want strangers to do what they can do avoid killing, maiming and attacking other strangers. It is perhaps an ideal, but I think I can still want if not expect it of other humans.

Of course cyclists need to watch where they are going, its a must. But the second statement was agressive and anti cyclist. Better would be to say "Both cyclists and motorists need to watch where they are going to help avoid traffic accidents." (but then it wouldn't be a rant) The 'hood ornament' crap is just agressive posturing and uncalled for, the implication is you better watch your back because I'm not gonna slow to avoid killing you. How can cyclist merge for left turns without motorists watching where they are going and accomidating slower vehicles?

Al

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:39 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
slagjumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Down on East End Avenue.
Posts: 1,816

Bikes: Salsa Las Cruces, Burley R&R and a boat load of others.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Dont get mad, get even. Really though this is BS. Don't the drunken NASCAR lovers of Atlanta know that there is a lot of paper work to fill out when you kill someone by accident?

I registered to
https://www.ajc.com/metro/content/met...wednesday.html
mailto:vent@ajc.com
slagjumper is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:41 PM
  #31  
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Posts: 4,920

Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Apparently you can take drivers education online now. So much for education. I know how to cut and paste, don't you? I know how to hit the back button and do a search to find the answer, don't you?
sbhikes is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:43 PM
  #32  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Obviously more responsibility, better education, better training will make using the roads safer for all modes of use. More should be done to reduce all vehicular accidents including the subset of motorized vehicle/bicycle accidents. Part of this 'more' should include education on cycling laws.

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:48 PM
  #33  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by John E
We can do much better, America, but it will require attitude adjustment, education, and an ethical regard for one's fellow citizens.
Totally agree. Its a disgrace how many people die each year from vehicular accidents. Its a disgrace the attitude about driving being a game (cite recent ford mustang commercial of reckless driving to get an early start on you mid life crisis)

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:53 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
slagjumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Down on East End Avenue.
Posts: 1,816

Bikes: Salsa Las Cruces, Burley R&R and a boat load of others.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I emailed this to the vent.

To the Lady whose husband bikes to work--
I may be a big, lazy, suv loving idiot but if more people biked to work, I'd pay less for gas, so thanks I guess. Also my brother inlaw hit some fool biker last year and had to fill out a mountain of paperwork so I'll try not to hit your hubby the next time I am in a hurry to get to work.
slagjumper is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 01:59 PM
  #35  
1.9lb/in
 
pseudobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Susquehanna shoreline
Posts: 1,360

Bikes: LeMond, CAAD9/1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
What a load of nonsense. The guy argues that social planning doesn't work because free market forces override it and hamper it.

I figured, logically, his conclusion would be to give teeth to the social planners and allow them power to override the developers (whom he blames for the terrible state of our infrastructure). But, inexplicably, his answer is to stop planning altogether and allow the market forces to dictate 100% of what gets built where.

Do you seriously buy into this illogical nonsense?
pseudobrit is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 02:36 PM
  #36  
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
Yeah. Kinda like communism.
Public roads are already a form of communism...maybe we should all boycott them and only use private toll roads RGC
cooker is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 02:44 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cooker
Public roads are already a form of communism...maybe we should all boycott them and only use private toll roads RGC
Interstate Highway System.....aka autobahn. The VW Bug is alive and well. Our prisons house negros, the mentally ill, and political dissidents on two wheels. And, the police are used as the Speech Gestapo. Is America really any different than the Nazis?
barenakedbiker is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 03:18 PM
  #38  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by John E
This is where Serge and I differ. I believe that, through tactful-but-outspoken political advocacy, we CAN have at least some control over motorist accountability and bicycle-friendly road and intersection design. Although I concur that bad cycling causes more cyclist deaths than bad motoring, bad (incompetent, inattentive, inebriated, impatient, irate, etc.) motorists are, by default, the greatest threat to lawful vehicular "effective" cyclists. Just ask Dave and Betty Johnson or the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, Ken Keiffer, or Patrick Klokow. Let us accept the often-stated assertion that bicycling is roughly as safe as motoring. The last time I checked, motor vehicle collisions were the greatest killer of teenagers and young adults. Is a fatality rate of three TWA Flight 800s per week acceptable? We can do much better, America, but it will require attitude adjustment, education, and an ethical regard for one's fellow citizens.

I do not "lack concern about educating cyclists," (I have politely told plenty of bicyclists to get on the right side of the road, to get lights, to stay LEFT of right-turn-only lanes, etc.) but this is only part of the equation.

Thanks John and very well said... motorists cannot seem to keep out of each others' way... so obviously there is some sort of "problem" with the motorist community in general.
genec is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 03:25 PM
  #39  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
motorists cannot seem to keep out of each others' way... so obviously there is some sort of "problem" with the motorist community in general.
Exactly, I am just as (actually more so) terrified of other motorists while driving as I am when cycling. The stunts drivers pull these days and get away with are obscene. And it self escalates as other drivers feel they have to respond aggressively just to 'survive'. I only see it getting worse as more and more drivers have learned their driving skills and behaviors from video games and television. Other people are viewed as 'points' or 'hood ornaments' not children, parents, fellow human beings.

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 03:55 PM
  #40  
Bent_Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,248

Bikes: Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Not there's anything wrong with it (socialism).
scarry is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 04:32 PM
  #41  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by scarry
At some point, our nation will have to stop using price as the means of demand control, and switch to allocating fuel on the basis of public interest. First, food, medical care, last, fuel used for entertainment.

To each according to his need, from each according to his ability.

lmao
toastchee is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 04:44 PM
  #42  
Bent_Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,248

Bikes: Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by toastchee
To each according to his need, from each according to his ability.

lmao
Ask not what your country can do for you.....................................
scarry is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 05:19 PM
  #43  
Rides again
 
HiYoSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW. Sacramento Region, aka, down river
Posts: 3,282

Bikes: Giant OCR T, Trek SC

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Vance Ermstrong
Saw this in my Atlanta paper on Monday in the "Vent" section and wondered how people would respond to it.
Forget this forum, didn't you quote from the DMV handbook and respond to the "vent" that driving/riding on roads is a priviledge, not a right. Semi's, bikes, motorcycles and buses also have a right to the roadway.

Unless, those drivers want to pay us a monthly stipend to stay off the roads.
HiYoSilver is offline  
Old 09-14-05, 08:37 PM
  #44  
Commuter
 
JohnBrooking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 2,568

Bikes: 2006 Giant Cypress EX (7-speed internal hub)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cassave
It might be a good idea to respond to those two responses with a few facts, like roads are made for bikes and sidewalks aren't. If that section of the paper really is the first thing people read then it would be a shame to allow those two hostile comments go unanswered.
Seconded. Vent back!

(Is the Vent section online? I couldn't find it, but it asked me to register after a few pages and I didn't feel like it, so I didn't have much of a chance to look.)
JohnBrooking is offline  
Old 09-15-05, 01:57 AM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Snowy midwest
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
"Watch out or you'll be a hood ornament". Really. Who breeds these creatures anyway?

All is not lost. Although every place has it's weirdos and @-holes, some places are better than others.

Bikeforums.net has had many threads about the mentality of drivers in different locations. For a while, we were getting some scary reports from the south; especially Atlanta and most of Texas. There are some long-time veterans like our very own Little Big Man Pete who has been commuting in Atlanta for years and could probably tell us some stories.

Everybody has some complaints - myself included, but it isn't all bad. The world isn't all going to hell, folks, even if at times it seems like it is.

Last edited by mike; 09-15-05 at 02:49 AM.
mike is offline  
Old 09-15-05, 06:28 AM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
trackhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Watching all of you on O.B.I.T.
Posts: 2,023

Bikes: Bridgestone RB-1. Nicely restored

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Today, two responses:
"To the wife of the biking teacher: Roads weren’t created for bikes. Tell him to use sidewalks."
and
"Lady, we don’t care about your husband riding a bicycle. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be a hood ornament."
Attitudes like these make Boston drivers look polite by comparison. The first statement is incorrect, as we all know. The bicycle was the dominant mode of transportation on public roadways decades before the first model T rolled off the assembly line. That's a fact. For more information on this, do a google search on "Good Roads Movement", or "Horatio Earle". He was a League of American wheelmen president, and leader of the good roads movement.

That aside, this is another in a seemingly endless supply of horror stories about cycling in Atlanta. I've never been to Atlanta. Don't think I'll go there either.

On Gasoline Rationing: It's been done before in this country. Gas was rationed during WWII, based on need. Check your grandparents attics, basements, etc. There's probably a rationing coupon book stashed somewhere.
trackhub is offline  
Old 09-15-05, 06:55 AM
  #47  
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Posts: 5,475

Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Liked 123 Times in 76 Posts
I think that paper is irresponsibly promoting hate speech. Let’s twist it a little:

On Monday this was in the paper:
"To all those people who insist on giving my husband no respect because he is a *****exual, I just wanted you to know that he is the father of two and a teacher to many of your little ones. He is riding to work so that we can eat at home. Please give him a little room."

Today, two responses:
"To the husband of the ***: Marriage wasn’t created for queers. Tell him to go get a woman."
and
"Dude, we don’t care about your husband the ****. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be strung up to a picket fence."

Is there really any difference? Is there?
jfmckenna is offline  
Old 09-15-05, 07:05 AM
  #48  
Yankees Suck
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 108

Bikes: Trek 1000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jfmckenna
Is there really any difference? Is there?
Yes, one's a personal choice and the other isn't.



Uh oh, he didn't just say that, did he? Jimmy, get your Bible.
Cornbread is offline  
Old 09-15-05, 07:15 AM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Snowy midwest
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jfmckenna
I think that paper is irresponsibly promoting hate speech. Let’s twist it a little:

On Monday this was in the paper:
"To all those people who insist on giving my husband no respect because he is a *****exual, I just wanted you to know that he is the father of two and a teacher to many of your little ones. He is riding to work so that we can eat at home. Please give him a little room."

Today, two responses:
"To the husband of the ***: Marriage wasn’t created for queers. Tell him to go get a woman."
and
"Dude, we don’t care about your husband the ****. He’d better watch where he’s going or he’ll be strung up to a picket fence."

Is there really any difference? Is there?
Please tell us you are kidding. This can't be real. A newspaper published this and wants to be considered a legitimate source of information?

I need some confirmation that this was really published.

Pete, Anybody; is this real or is it a spoof?

Last edited by mike; 09-15-05 at 07:36 AM.
mike is offline  
Old 09-15-05, 07:20 AM
  #50  
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by MaxBender
As a weekender cyclist, how can I try to commute by bike with psychos like that here in Atlanta?

Dare I venture amongst the flippant would-be bicycle killers? I bought a visibility flag, striped it with reflective tape, and got dog tags so the pramedics know my name, etc.

It's not even a long ride, just 11 miles, but I don't want to die over this.
I wouldn't want to judge your situation, MaxBender, since it's always a personal judgement call. In my case, I ride from Stone Mountain to downtown Atlanta, and for the most part, people treat me with respect and courtesy. Maybe part of that is that I ride the same route every morning at the same time, just like many of the motorists I encounter, so they probably know me by now. A dump truck driver and a garbage truck driver in particular know me, and the police do, for sure.

From Avondale Estates to Inman Park, since it's two lanes in my direction and light traffic between 6:15 and 6:45 (and I'm very visible,) I take a whole lane much of the time. It works well, the motorists change lanes to pass and never squeeze me.
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.