Bekologist

So, if i'm driving my car as if i were riding a bicycle, does that make me VC?

discuss.

Helmet Head

No. Just like riding your bike as if you're driving a car is not necessarily VC, driving your car like you're riding your bike is not necessarily VC either.

Whether you're driving your car or riding your bike, or motorcycle, or farm tractor, or horse and buggy, or whatever, what determines whether your driving/riding is vehicular is whether you're doing so in accordance to the vehicular rules of the road.

When an ambulance driver with sirens blaring runs red lights, drives on the wrong side of the road, and speeds, he is driving non-vehicularly, even though he is in a vehicle, and not doing anything illegal.

The meaning of "vehicular" in "vehicular cycling" has little to do with WHAT is being driven and everything to do with HOW it is being driven. And the HOW has much more to do with whether the HOW is consistent with the traditional and ubiquitous rules of the road (that allow you to get off a plane in Beijing, Paris, Boston or Morocco and know how to drive there without learning their particular rules) upon which all vehicular laws governing the operation of vehicles on roadways throughout the world are based, and much less to do with what is or is not technically legal within a given jurisdiction.

Also, behavior that is vehicular (in accordance to the vehicular rules) when driving a car, may or may not be when operating a bicycle, motorcycle, farm tractor, etc. For example, on a long stretch of 2-lane roadway with a WOL and 55 mph traffic, it's vehicular to ride/drive centerish with a motorcycle or car, but keeping to the side is the appropriate vehicular lane position for a slow moving vehicle like a bicycle or farm tractor (this is lane positioning in accordance to the speed positioning rule of the road - slower vehicles keep to the side). In other words, the WHAT is being driven does matter some, in terms of incorporating its particular physical and operational characteristics in determining HOW it is being driven, but it's still mostly about the HOW in terms of whether it's "vehicular" or not.

heckflosse

No, because you're driving you wouldn't be a cyclist.
You'd be a Vehicular Driver ('VD' for short)

Bekologist

Yes, VD. That's the term. Symptoms are sloughing at the mouth and the inability to see clearly thru a mirror. hypocriticus driverus is the latin term i believe.

chipcom 

I guess it d'pends, are you wearing a helmet?

Bekologist

I save my helmet wearing for getting in and out of the bathtub, ostensibly a much more dangerous activity.

"I want all you bikers to ride like I'm driving, dammit"

nova

Na more dangerous is snow tubing down a huge hill and having your friend knock you in to the air with his tube when you stand up heh. I had a motor cycle helmet full face with visor. I was useing it cause it was damn cold out. My crash cracked the helmet big time in the back. I still ended up with a lump (bleeding one) on the back of my head. My bet is no helmet and i would have been a dead man heh.

chipcom 

OK, but do you have clipless gas/brake pedals? Are you wearing spandex and team kit? HRT? Do you draft the car in front of you, dropping him at the last second before you pull into the parking lot? My gawd man, are you a cyclicular vehiclist or aren't you?

sbhikes

I suppose you'd be driving a recumbent then, eh?

Cyclaholic

ROFLMAO! stop it, you're killing me here

Bekologist

I'm going to say it once and for all, I'm a cyclicular vehiclist and I'm proud of it!

LCI_Brian

Ya know, one time I had the Honda Civic fully loaded and was headed up a steep grade. Before passing the 18 wheeler in front of me, I accelerated into his draft, and only then did I move into the left lane to get around him.

But, no, I wasn't wearing spandex at the time. So I guess I wasn't a cycliular vehiclist.

Bekologist

I think I drive faster when I'm wearing spandex.

I've started running red lights now with my car. I check if they're clear first. I think I can lead the cyclists actually biking by my example of asynch CV.

Daily Commute

They're planning on putting red light cameras on part of my commute. If all's clear, I might run one intentionally just to smile for the camera.

I-Like-To-Bike

Next time I have trouble merging into a left lane on a busy highway with my car, I'm going to stick my head out the window and glare backwards at the drivers until they politely make room for me. If it works for alpha dog cyclists "driving" their bicycle, it should work for me too. Looking backwards on the Dan Ryan or Lake Shore Drive for 2-5 seconds should get some quick results.

noisebeam

I got a few on my commute. Just this morning I stopped in the center of the right thru lane and 3 cars when thru on a solid red (in the adjacent lanes to me), but I only saw the flash go off twice. Its pretty normal to see 'em flash.

One of the most amazing things I witnessed a few weeks ago was when I was stopped at a left turn red. It turned green arrow and 5 left turning cars from the x-street went thru the light (only one was already legally in the intersection when my light turned green), by the time they cleared the intersection my green arrow was red so I missed an entire cycle!

Al

Helmet Head

is it only me that finds drivers much more cooperative in terms of yielding the ROW for a left merge when I'm cycling than when I'm driving?

When I'm driving, I could signal electronically and with my arm, and stick my head out the window and glare, and they are likely to ignore me. But when I'm cycling, usually all that is required is a decisive shoulder check, looking back for 1-4 seconds, depending on the circumstances (volume and speed of traffic, primarily).

Anyone else? ILTB writes like someone who has never even tried it, so he wouldn't know.

chipcom 

I think for the most part drivers are more courteous to cyclists than to other drivers.

genec

Quite possibly... Although ILTB lives in an obscure area that has a state population that is less then the population of one of San Diego's many suburbs, so his "reality" is not the same as yours.

Frankly I always look back when driving... over my right shoulder, to check that blind spot next to my vehicle. 1-2 seconds is all it takes.

RE actually getting a merge opening in hiway traffic... well, it helps to drive an older truck... then after actually signaling (seen so rarely on So Cal freeways)... slowly inch your way into the lane you want. It is amazing how the shiney Beemers and Vets and Porches and Mercs all seem to slide away as my beat up old Toyota comes their way. It works a lot like motorists avoiding a trashcan on the freeway.

Helmet Head

Whether you're driving or cycling the length of time it takes to look back to see if it's clear is probably about the same, and is pretty quick, less than a second.

The length of time I'm talking about above is not just to see if it is clear, but also to clearly communicate my desire to merge to motorists approaching from the rear.

iamtim

This thread is quite humorous. :-)

Tim.

genec

I actually checked... I turn my head in either case for about a quick 1-2 count.

Now the communication issue is interesting**, as it means that a motorist must be looking at me at the same time I am looking for them to assume that I am turning by just conveying a head turn alone. I actually find that I usually do one head turn when driving, but two or more when cycling. One to check the situation initially (you probably glance at your mirror for this). Then I signal, then perhaps another head turn to see if I am getting results... and then a quick third glance (unless I am really sure by either sound or the second glance) just as I move.

** interesting as I have done a quick glance just to monitor traffic, and every now and then a motorist catches me doing this, and actually slows down then and there... even if I do not want to move laterally. I must then signal to them that I am not going anywhere.

I-Like-To-Bike

Tell me how often you try your Jedi/Vulcan mind tricks during hours of darkness on un lit 55mph roads with heavy traffic, mr. alpha-dog. Tell me all about the positive effects on altering motorist behavior of your dang steely eyed gaze and cryptic hand signals at 5:30 am, or 5:30 pm in the winter, for that matter and looking approaching 55mph motorists in the eyes. Driver niceness is immaterial; not everybody saves their cycling for weekend spins with their club or only on nsunny days in the park.
And you don't know nuthin' about what I or other cyclists do or don't try; especially if it may not fit your preconceived notions about cycling wisdom.

Bekologist

When I do Jedi mind tricks while CV'ing around town, I can levitate over potholes and drive my car as if the bike lanes weren't even there.



I'm going to go sit out in the driveway and practice my CV now....wait, I think I hear my father's voice.... "Steal the porsche, Luke"

Treespeed

I don't know what everyone else does, but in my daily and nightly commute I have to negotiate 50mph sections of Venice Blvd, San Vicente, and Figueroa. These are some major LA arterials that are just the sligthest step down from full-blown freeways. My M.O. when attempting a lane merge is to situp full in the saddle and make eye contact with the driver I'm negotiating with, along with a hand signal to fully communicate my intention. I make this commute at night too and I don't have the slightest problems with drivers. Of course there's the occasional person who doesn't feel like letting me merge, but I think it happens more when I'm driving than cycling.

Once again ILTB criticizes, but offers nothing of substance as an alternative. Dude, what are the other options? If your commute is so treacherous are you on the sidewalk to avoid it? Do you have to wait for all traffic to clear to make a lane change? I really don't see the problem with an over the shoulder glance to check the lane and communicate with your fellow commuters. Unless of course you can't hold your line while you look over your shoulder for a few seconds? Then maybe you should be relegated to the sidewalk.