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Another "Helmetless" Death

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Another "Helmetless" Death

Old 10-14-02, 09:47 PM
  #26  
Trigger1
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Originally posted by Steele-Bike
Bikerider,

But, I am a ardent supporter of common sense.
Gawd if we could get more people to support the cause! Life would be so much easier.



Now for my 2 cents. I have spent a good number of years in sports and a profesion that requires trainning on how to fall. I have gotten pretty good so far. I know when to relax, how to land and how to protect my head in a fall. I do however still wear a helmet. No exceptions. It only weighs a few ounces, is not uncomfortable, and hell my head is too pretty to let it get scared up. Hell I love my brain and want to keep it. So wear it if you want. If you don't then maybe natural selection is a good thing.
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Old 10-14-02, 09:54 PM
  #27  
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Originally posted by Trigger1
I know when to relax, how to land and how to protect my head in a fall. I do however still wear a helmet. No exceptions. It only weighs a few ounces, is not uncomfortable, and hell my head is too pretty to let it get scared up. Hell I love my brain and want to keep it. So wear it if you want. If you don't then maybe natural selection is a good thing.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 10-14-02, 10:17 PM
  #28  
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Originally posted by nick1111
I don't read these forums much, but when I do, I often see you (yes you, bikerider) arguing as to why helmets are so "pathetic."
No, what is pathetic is that you chose not to quote anything I actually wrote but instead chose to construct an attack based on what you say I said and not what I actually said.

You rarely put up an argument as to why helmets are bad in general. Instead, you take the wimpy argument that you personally do not need a helmet. Unlike you, most people are imperfect mountain bikers, as such, most of us do hit our heads on occasion. Most people do not want to hear time and time again why you personally are against helmets. You never provide a strong argument, other than "I never hit my head."
This would appear to be a well-reasoned reply except for the fact that it has nothing to do with what I wrote in this thread or any other. Choosing to attribute words, ideas and beliefs to me which I did not put forth speaks volumes about your honesty and integrity. That you chose to register to enable yourself to snipe at me does not help much in this regard, either. Do you really expect me to take you seriously?
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Old 10-14-02, 10:32 PM
  #29  
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Yes.

If you want to set the record straight, let's hear your definitive opinion on helmets. Then we'll continue the debate.
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Old 10-14-02, 10:37 PM
  #30  
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Originally posted by nick1111
Yes.
I see you did not deny your dishonest attempts to attack my character - not that you credibly could, of course.

If you want to set the record straight, let's hear your definitive opinion on helmets. Then we'll continue the debate.
I need to 'set the record straight'? You must trolling or kidding! Thanks for the laugh, though!
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Old 10-15-02, 05:44 AM
  #31  
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You are either afraid/embarassed to state your position on helmets, possibly because you realized how ludicrous it is.

This sort of response is no good:

"I don't need a helmet, but if you do, that's fine with me......... oh, and did i forget to mention that helmets are just pointless cheap Styrofoam?"

(In case you didn't realize, that's a dramatic paraphrase, not a alleged quote )

Saying you don't need a helmet is one thing. Saying helmets are bad without showing any of your "research" is another.
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Old 10-15-02, 11:50 AM
  #32  
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This happened on our club ride last week:

The rider "failed to make the treacherous, outward-sloping switchback at the steepest part of the hill. He says that as he went over the edge of the road onto the driveway below he knew he had the choice of landing on his hands or his head. Since he felt his helmet would protect him he took it on his head. He shattered the liner of his helmet into at least three pieces. He broke several front teeth. He sustained multiple fractures to his left collarbone. His left shoulder had a cut in it with something showing through, and it was bleeding enough to soak his jersey with blood, so I suspect that it was the bone showing through the wound. But he was right. His helmet did protect his head. He sustained no head injury."

I can tell you that this guy would most likely be dead right now if he were not wearing his helmet and is reason enough for me to always wear one, IMHO. YMMV.

Last edited by SteveE; 10-16-02 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 10-15-02, 10:56 PM
  #33  
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Originally posted by nick1111
You are either afraid/embarassed to state your position on helmets, possibly because you realized how ludicrous it is.
How can you deem my position to be ludicrous when you have just stated that you don't know what it is?

This sort of response is no good:

"I don't need a helmet, but if you do, that's fine with me......... oh, and did i forget to mention that helmets are just pointless cheap Styrofoam?"

(In case you didn't realize, that's a dramatic paraphrase, not a alleged quote )


Yes, I see you have yet to find the 'quote' button or to 'debate' anything I have actually written. I have to admit that reading your posts which contain naught but vague innuendos is becoming more and more amusing.

Saying you don't need a helmet is one thing. Saying helmets are bad without showing any of your "research" is another.
Again, I see you attributing ideas to me which have come from nowhere but your own head. If what I write bothers you so much, I suggest the 'ignore' button.
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Old 10-15-02, 11:04 PM
  #34  
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Bikerider, dude if you don't want to wear it fine with me. I support your decision.

Nick1111, do you sell helmets? If not why all the flack at Bikerider. Just curious, not wanting to start a fight.
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Old 10-15-02, 11:48 PM
  #35  
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I've never worn a helmet on my bicycle. I always wear a helmet on my motorcycle. I always wear my seat belt. I have never been in an accident in which I've needed a safety device. I hope that I keep that good record. I never really thought about a bicycle helmet as necessary. But in my life I've wrecked bicycles a LOT more than my car or motorcycle (ie. never) Therefore if I were to choose one safety device it logically should be the bicycle helmet. I'm not stopping the other things but now that I think about it...it's time to go buy a helmet. I just wish they didn't look so stupid.
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Old 10-16-02, 12:42 AM
  #36  
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Wise man say : "He who chooses not to wear helmet should have a 'living will' and an organ donor card."
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Old 10-16-02, 01:22 AM
  #37  
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here in New Zealand cyclists have to wear a helmet by law, so it sort of takes the desision for you !! you kind of get used to it but it does feel good when i dont wear it , espesialy in the summer but i do wear it 99.5% of the time as i think most of the auguments for it are valid, although for an adult it should be your own choice, if kids wore them from "go" they would be more likely to continue wearing them when they were older.
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Old 10-16-02, 05:57 AM
  #38  
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Originally posted by bikerider


How can you deem my position to be ludicrous when you have just stated that you don't know what it is?



Yes, I see you have yet to find the 'quote' button or to 'debate' anything I have actually written. I have to admit that reading your posts which contain naught but vague innuendos is becoming more and more amusing.



Again, I see you attributing ideas to me which have come from nowhere but your own head. If what I write bothers you so much, I suggest the 'ignore' button. [/B]
You see, I said "possibly" ludicrous, based on the small amount I have read so far, and your reluctance to post.

Although I didn't use the quote button previously, I did post a direct response to your calling helmets "thin Styrofoam" in a demeaning manner.

What bothers me is that the things you post may fuel a newcomer's uncertainty about helmets. Because you never share your research (aside from the Styrofoam remark), no one can directly debate any facts with you. I'd honestly like to see the research you talk about, I doubt I'll change my mind on helmets though, because if any breakthrough research had come out, it would have been in the news.
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Old 10-16-02, 08:44 AM
  #39  
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Originally posted by nick1111


You see, I said "possibly" ludicrous, based on the small amount I have read so far, and your reluctance to post.
Actually, what you said was (and I quote):

Originally posted by nick1111
You are either afraid/embarassed to state your position on helmets, possibly because you realized how ludicrous it is.
As can be plainly seen, you were referring to a possible reason for not obeying your command to write a thesis on the topic of helmets. Your duplicity rears it's ugly head again!

What bothers me is that the things you post may fuel a newcomer's uncertainty about helmets. Because you never share your research (aside from the Styrofoam remark), no one can directly debate any facts with you. I'd honestly like to see the research you talk about,
Well unfortunately for you, my post simply stated my attitude on the attribution of the life saving abilities of helmets and those who promote it. I certainly have yet to change my mind, especially considering the inane hyperbole that rolls in everytime this thread is bumped to the top!

I'm not going to do a re-hash of the helmet wars everytime the subject comes up and certainly not with someone who clearly already has a chip on his shoulder, who has show himself to be dishonest and deceitful in every reply and admits that they would be reluctant to change their position because they didn't hear about it on the news!

If you do a search on 'helmet' on this forum (or on Google Groups for that matter), you will find plenty of reading material. If your interest is sincere you will pursue it without my guiding hand.
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Old 10-16-02, 11:09 AM
  #40  
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I saw no need to research it myself when I already had an expert in my company.

My position is simple: Helmets have never been shown to worsen injury in a crash. Catastrophic crashes aside for a minute, I know first hand that helmets are very effective at preventing minor injury. I'd probably have a big bump on my head right now if I hadn't been wearing one yesterday. I was bombing down a trail and I was clipped by a thick branch in an overgrown area. Not wearing a helmet on an off-road trail is pretty silly. The only rational explanation for not wearing a helmet on a trail would be if it was a trail you knew like the back of your hand (and it was really easy).

Perhaps we need to talk about helmet use in different situations. I'll admit that helmets probably don't prevent all that many injuries in commuting. It's pretty rare that you'd hit the top of your head during a commute (And wearing a full face would be silly ). However, for any kind of extreme riding, I don't think going "helmetless" is worth the risk. So many unexpected things can happen on a trail.

I personally like wearing a helmet in the city, because I don't exactly make my rides "leisurely." Also, there is the risk of careless motorists who could cause a low speed collision. Scenario: some punk comes bolting out of his driveway and for whatever reason doesn't expect there to be bikes and people on the road. He breaks at the last minute, impacting you at just 15mph. Now, unless you're spider-man, I doubt anyone has the ability to land that on their feet. I agree that this kind of scenario is unlikely, but then again I've never been in a car accident (knock on wood ) and I would never consider going without my seat belt.

Of course, it's up to the individual person what they do. Bikerider, I'd like to hear about the kind of riding you do.

While I'm sure we can all agree that the person in the initial story would not have just walked away had he been wearing a helmet, I think there's a good chance he'd still be alive.


I also think that helmet technology has a long way to go. Helmets could be made a lot better, but for what they cost today, they do a damned good job.
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Old 10-16-02, 01:43 PM
  #41  
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Helmet or not, this news story describes a HOMICIDE and only the car-addicted, transportation STUPID United States of America would be so gutless as to describe it otherwise.

"Adolf Hitler on a bicycle would be a better person than Albert Schweitzer in a car"
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Old 10-16-02, 03:30 PM
  #42  
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The only rational explanation for not wearing a helmet on a trail would be if it was a trail you knew like the back of your hand (and it was really easy).
Not even then you never know when some psycho squirrel is going to jump into your spokes. Don't laugh it's happened to me.
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Old 10-16-02, 09:20 PM
  #43  
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Originally posted by Raiyn
Not even then you never know when some psycho squirrel is going to jump into your spokes. Don't laugh it's happened to me.
Or, for that matter, if a magpie is going to swoop from a tree and go directly for the back of your head . (hey, it was springtime here a few months back).
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Old 10-17-02, 07:36 PM
  #44  
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It's a secret squirrle double ought nought spy conspiracy. They are coming after your bikes, they break too many acorns and pecans on the trail. Beware the rodents. If its got a furry end, its got a pointy one.
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