Is this ridiculous?
12-15-05, 01:28 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Is this ridiculous?
from
https://www.braininjuryoklahoma.org/i...rts/soccor.htm
An article appeared in the September 22, 1998, Washington Post on soccer head injuries, based in turn on a study in the November issue of the journal Neurology. A Dutch and American study of 80 long-term soccer players in their mid-twenties showed that they score poorly on tests of memory, planning and visual processing. The researchers believe that is the product of repeatedly heading the ball or colliding with other players or goalposts. The article reports that concussions are as frequent in soccer as American football. The impairment of mental function found was probably too subtle to be obvious to most people. The American Academy of Neurology provides copies of its guidelines for soccer coaches on head injuries by calling (800) 879-1960 or (703) 236-6000. In a separate development, ASTM's headgear subcommittee has discussed the soccer head injury problem and has a task force investigating whether or not a standard should be developed for soccer helmets. To our knowledge there is no product available on the market yet that provides head protection while still permitting the player to accurately head the ball.
I noticed in the news today, this story from
https://www.masslive.com/sports/repub...570.xml&coll=1
Thursday, December 15, 2005
By LARRY PHUNG
lphung@repub.com
When the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association passed a rule requiring high school soccer players to wear mouth guards in 1999, Amherst-Pelham Regional girls coach Derek Shea remembers joking about what changes would come next.
"When mouth guards came up, we sat in the (coaches) meeting laughing, and someone said, 'helmets are next,'" Shea said. "I said that was ludicrous."
Ludicrous or not, soccer players on all levels from youth league to college could be required to wear helmets under legislation currently being considered in the Statehouse. Professional soccer players, like the New England Revolution, would be exempt. No other state appears to have a soccer helmet law.
"It's ridiculous. It's not football," Hampshire Regional senior Kristen Culver said. "You're not trying to hit the other person, you're trying to put the ball in the net. (Head injuries) happen, but not enough to enforce helmets."
State Rep. Deborah Blumer, D-Framingham, sponsored the bill on behalf of a constituent, but conceded it likely won't pass.
Still, high school players and coaches in the region expressed surprise, shock and even anger at the idea of a helmet law.
"Helmets? Definitely not," said varsity soccer player Cassie Ashwell, a junior at Agawam High School. "If you learn to head the ball properly, there shouldn't be any problem."
"I've played soccer and coached for 30-plus years," Shea said. "I can count on one hand the number of times I've been involved in a game when someone's had a head injury.
"I remember taking a pretty hard knock when I was 12, and I got it cleaned up, and got my stitches, but it's part of the game."
Supporters of the bill say helmets are needed to prevent head injuries from collisions and from heading, a key element of the game where players use their heads to ricochet the soccer ball to another player or at the goal.
But area coaches and players doubted that helmets would actually make the game safer.
"Besides having coached for 27 years, my three children have all played," said Chris Zguro, longtime boys coach at Springfield's Central High School. "Over the years, there have been some collisions, but I don't know exactly how a helmet would prevent that."
"If you hit somebody (while wearing a helmet), I would think there'd be more chance of a head injury," Belchertown junior Joanna Haqq said.
Players and coaches were also concerned about the effect helmets would have on field vision and playing balls in the air.
"It (would) kind of ruin your peripheral vision, and that's a huge part of the game," Haqq said.
"It's a little ridiculous," Ludlow senior Jared Falconer said. "If you have a helmet on, I don't know how you're going to do head balls."
"If a kid wanted to wear it, I certainly wouldn't stop them," Zguro said. "I'm not against keeping kids safe. I just don't understand how it would (help)."
https://www.braininjuryoklahoma.org/i...rts/soccor.htm
An article appeared in the September 22, 1998, Washington Post on soccer head injuries, based in turn on a study in the November issue of the journal Neurology. A Dutch and American study of 80 long-term soccer players in their mid-twenties showed that they score poorly on tests of memory, planning and visual processing. The researchers believe that is the product of repeatedly heading the ball or colliding with other players or goalposts. The article reports that concussions are as frequent in soccer as American football. The impairment of mental function found was probably too subtle to be obvious to most people. The American Academy of Neurology provides copies of its guidelines for soccer coaches on head injuries by calling (800) 879-1960 or (703) 236-6000. In a separate development, ASTM's headgear subcommittee has discussed the soccer head injury problem and has a task force investigating whether or not a standard should be developed for soccer helmets. To our knowledge there is no product available on the market yet that provides head protection while still permitting the player to accurately head the ball.
I noticed in the news today, this story from
https://www.masslive.com/sports/repub...570.xml&coll=1
Thursday, December 15, 2005
By LARRY PHUNG
lphung@repub.com
When the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association passed a rule requiring high school soccer players to wear mouth guards in 1999, Amherst-Pelham Regional girls coach Derek Shea remembers joking about what changes would come next.
"When mouth guards came up, we sat in the (coaches) meeting laughing, and someone said, 'helmets are next,'" Shea said. "I said that was ludicrous."
Ludicrous or not, soccer players on all levels from youth league to college could be required to wear helmets under legislation currently being considered in the Statehouse. Professional soccer players, like the New England Revolution, would be exempt. No other state appears to have a soccer helmet law.
"It's ridiculous. It's not football," Hampshire Regional senior Kristen Culver said. "You're not trying to hit the other person, you're trying to put the ball in the net. (Head injuries) happen, but not enough to enforce helmets."
State Rep. Deborah Blumer, D-Framingham, sponsored the bill on behalf of a constituent, but conceded it likely won't pass.
Still, high school players and coaches in the region expressed surprise, shock and even anger at the idea of a helmet law.
"Helmets? Definitely not," said varsity soccer player Cassie Ashwell, a junior at Agawam High School. "If you learn to head the ball properly, there shouldn't be any problem."
"I've played soccer and coached for 30-plus years," Shea said. "I can count on one hand the number of times I've been involved in a game when someone's had a head injury.
"I remember taking a pretty hard knock when I was 12, and I got it cleaned up, and got my stitches, but it's part of the game."
Supporters of the bill say helmets are needed to prevent head injuries from collisions and from heading, a key element of the game where players use their heads to ricochet the soccer ball to another player or at the goal.
But area coaches and players doubted that helmets would actually make the game safer.
"Besides having coached for 27 years, my three children have all played," said Chris Zguro, longtime boys coach at Springfield's Central High School. "Over the years, there have been some collisions, but I don't know exactly how a helmet would prevent that."
"If you hit somebody (while wearing a helmet), I would think there'd be more chance of a head injury," Belchertown junior Joanna Haqq said.
Players and coaches were also concerned about the effect helmets would have on field vision and playing balls in the air.
"It (would) kind of ruin your peripheral vision, and that's a huge part of the game," Haqq said.
"It's a little ridiculous," Ludlow senior Jared Falconer said. "If you have a helmet on, I don't know how you're going to do head balls."
"If a kid wanted to wear it, I certainly wouldn't stop them," Zguro said. "I'm not against keeping kids safe. I just don't understand how it would (help)."
12-15-05, 01:32 PM
#2
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It is, they should just let them use their hands. 
Al
Al
12-15-05, 01:47 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I agree that it is too but, it's interesting to see that there are head injury risks that could be prevented by helmets from accidents that are a common occurance.
From
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/soccer.html
It reminds me of another article I read about a ranch owner in Australia being fined for breaches of safety, including failure to provide a horseman with an equestrian helmet after the horsemans' death from head injuries stemming from a fall from a horse.
From
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/soccer.html
A concussion may occur when someone's head strikes an object. A person with a concussion may lose consciousness or suffer memory loss and appear confused. In soccer, concussions make up 2-3% of all injuries. This is the same rate as for American football!
A study involving men's and women's college soccer teams from the Atlantic Coast Conference found a total of 29 concussions in a 2-year period. The most common cause of the concussions was when one player's head struck the head of another player.
A study involving men's and women's college soccer teams from the Atlantic Coast Conference found a total of 29 concussions in a 2-year period. The most common cause of the concussions was when one player's head struck the head of another player.
It reminds me of another article I read about a ranch owner in Australia being fined for breaches of safety, including failure to provide a horseman with an equestrian helmet after the horsemans' death from head injuries stemming from a fall from a horse.
Last edited by closetbiker; 12-15-05 at 02:36 PM.
12-15-05, 01:54 PM
#4
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Lets see now..... helmets for in the tub and shower... helmets for going up and down stairs... helmets for any handiman repairs around the house... helmets for in the kitchen -- you know how cupboard doors get left open......... heck, lets just wear helmets 24/7.
Nice designer helmets, flowers and paisley designs, your fav pet, your fav hobby -- stars and planets for astronomers, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, birds... you name it.
The sickest pukiest colours you can find.... swirls, eye-dazing confusing 3D designs.
Yupppers... I'm for helmets.... and shin pads and shoulder pads and hip pads and elbow pads...
OH YES..... lets not forget the neck collars !!!!
Save the money and just don't get out of bed. On second thought.. why be born at all?
Nice designer helmets, flowers and paisley designs, your fav pet, your fav hobby -- stars and planets for astronomers, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, birds... you name it.
The sickest pukiest colours you can find.... swirls, eye-dazing confusing 3D designs.
Yupppers... I'm for helmets.... and shin pads and shoulder pads and hip pads and elbow pads...
OH YES..... lets not forget the neck collars !!!!
Save the money and just don't get out of bed. On second thought.. why be born at all?
Last edited by Citadel Rider; 12-15-05 at 02:01 PM.
12-15-05, 01:55 PM
#5
Senior Member
I grew up playing soccer. It was a common occurence to see players collide heads going up for a ball or take an elbow/forearm/knee to the head when the goalie jumped up to catch a cross. Playing indoor soccer a few years ago, I went up for a head ball and took a goalie's forearm to my nose which in turn landed me on my back with my head then smacking the astroturf. It didn't feel nice and was a completely intentional foul by the goalie (who claimed he didn't touch me much to everyone's amusement). Not sure if a helmet would have helped there but for that coach to say he's coached and played for 30 years and never saw a head injury is BS. They happen, often.
12-15-05, 01:58 PM
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Yes, on both sides.
A mouthguard is reasonable. Esp. in todays so sue setting. It has minimal negative impact.
The heading issue and helmets becomes absurd when one realizes just where any trauma comes from. It is NOT because of the ball, in the sense of hitting something hard. Rather it is from the direction change and the brain hitting the inside of the skull. In short a helmet does nothing. The only alternative is banning heading. Which just might be worthwhile, up to the age where it becomes less of a problem. Doing something like that is NOT unique in sports. In Rugby there are different rules on how a Second Row player can bind for schoolboys. Rules about front row players and safety started out as schoolboy rules. In Baseball in the U.S. Curveballs are banned below some age (I'm not a baseball type). The reason is repeatedly throwing that kind of pitch before full development will damage the arm of the pitcher.
Such might be called for in Soccer. The hard part would be deciding the age.
A mouthguard is reasonable. Esp. in todays so sue setting. It has minimal negative impact.
The heading issue and helmets becomes absurd when one realizes just where any trauma comes from. It is NOT because of the ball, in the sense of hitting something hard. Rather it is from the direction change and the brain hitting the inside of the skull. In short a helmet does nothing. The only alternative is banning heading. Which just might be worthwhile, up to the age where it becomes less of a problem. Doing something like that is NOT unique in sports. In Rugby there are different rules on how a Second Row player can bind for schoolboys. Rules about front row players and safety started out as schoolboy rules. In Baseball in the U.S. Curveballs are banned below some age (I'm not a baseball type). The reason is repeatedly throwing that kind of pitch before full development will damage the arm of the pitcher.
Such might be called for in Soccer. The hard part would be deciding the age.
12-15-05, 02:00 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by joejack951
They happen, often.
I think there are a lot of worry warts around that focus too narrowly on a subject and can't see the forest for the trees.
12-15-05, 02:04 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Keith99
The heading issue and helmets becomes absurd when one realizes just where any trauma comes from. It is NOT because of the ball, in the sense of hitting something hard. Rather it is from the direction change and the brain hitting the inside of the skull. In short a helmet does nothing.
In situations of a fall they [helmets] are next to useless because they do not protect against diffused brain damage. The damage to the brain would still have occurred because it is the rattling inside the skull that caused the damage.
12-15-05, 02:07 PM
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I've been thinking more about this. The most vunerable to concussion are the youngest. They are also ones prone to head less because hitting the ball with their head 'hurts'. Now we add helmets. It no longer hurts. They head MORE. More trauma, more injury.
Oops looks like they did not think this through.
Oops looks like they did not think this through.
12-15-05, 02:21 PM
#10
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Just because a player falls to the ground rolling around and reeling in pain, doesn't mean they are hurt. It's part of soccer to fake injuries, draw penalties, and generally play like a wuss.
12-15-05, 02:53 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Why is it that there are those who worry about head injuries and make the most of them in the activities that are the smallest souce of head injuries?
Source: FY 2000/2001 Canadian Institute For Health Information, Of 2500 Major Head Injuries Annually in Ontario;
49% Motor vehicle involvement - including pedestrians but excluding cyclists
35% Falls
6% Homicide
6% Other
2% Suicide
Leave the soccer players alone and go after the motorists if you really care.
Source: FY 2000/2001 Canadian Institute For Health Information, Of 2500 Major Head Injuries Annually in Ontario;
49% Motor vehicle involvement - including pedestrians but excluding cyclists
35% Falls
6% Homicide
6% Other
2% Suicide
Leave the soccer players alone and go after the motorists if you really care.
12-15-05, 04:00 PM
#12
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There have been cases of professional players suffering long-term damage which showed up in later life, including on famous English international. But he was playing in the era of heavy leather balls and he was famous for scoring with headers. When they were wet they seemed to weigh a ton when they hit your head
12-15-05, 04:15 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Citadel Rider
Lets see now..... helmets for in the tub and shower... helmets for going up and down stairs... helmets for any handiman repairs around the house... helmets for in the kitchen -- you know how cupboard doors get left open......... heck, lets just wear helmets 24/7.
Nice designer helmets, flowers and paisley designs, your fav pet, your fav hobby -- stars and planets for astronomers, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, birds... you name it.
The sickest pukiest colours you can find.... swirls, eye-dazing confusing 3D designs.
Yupppers... I'm for helmets.... and shin pads and shoulder pads and hip pads and elbow pads...
OH YES..... lets not forget the neck collars !!!!
Save the money and just don't get out of bed. On second thought.. why be born at all?
Nice designer helmets, flowers and paisley designs, your fav pet, your fav hobby -- stars and planets for astronomers, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, birds... you name it.
The sickest pukiest colours you can find.... swirls, eye-dazing confusing 3D designs.
Yupppers... I'm for helmets.... and shin pads and shoulder pads and hip pads and elbow pads...
OH YES..... lets not forget the neck collars !!!!
Save the money and just don't get out of bed. On second thought.. why be born at all?
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12-15-05, 05:30 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
They sure do happen but we have to balance the good of soccer to the bad, and decide what, if any action to take if it is needed.
I think there are a lot of worry warts around that focus too narrowly on a subject and can't see the forest for the trees.
I think there are a lot of worry warts around that focus too narrowly on a subject and can't see the forest for the trees.
12-15-05, 06:16 PM
#15
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I don't know about laws and such, or helmets for soccer, but I read about the effects of repeated concussions on soccer players' ability to perform mentally, and at the time I read about it, it was convincing.
The truth about professional competitive sports is that athletes are generally very young, because they are in their prime fitness levels, and they are under extreme pressure to play through their injuries. It's big money, and it's not unusual for young athletes to develop permanent disabilities from their sport. It's as if they are expendable. I even know a man in his 50's whose high-school football days left him with broken cartilage in his knee, which causes him chronic pain; the only remedy is knee replacement.
But it's very different for those of us who exercise non-competitively.
Maybe I've gotten off-topic, but this aspect of pro-sports is sometimes overlooked.
The truth about professional competitive sports is that athletes are generally very young, because they are in their prime fitness levels, and they are under extreme pressure to play through their injuries. It's big money, and it's not unusual for young athletes to develop permanent disabilities from their sport. It's as if they are expendable. I even know a man in his 50's whose high-school football days left him with broken cartilage in his knee, which causes him chronic pain; the only remedy is knee replacement.
But it's very different for those of us who exercise non-competitively.
Maybe I've gotten off-topic, but this aspect of pro-sports is sometimes overlooked.
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12-15-05, 08:05 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
From a year ago,
https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4965
https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4965
Saturday 27th November 2004
Put a lid on it, Becks
If cyclists are forced to wear helmets, how long will it be before 'on me 'ead, son' isn't a footballer's request for a pass, it's a stipulation that footie players must also wear hard hats? A ludicrous suggestion? Not so. In America, 'soccer helmets', similar to those used in Aussie rules football, are becoming more and more popular, much to the chagrin of footballing organisations who say soccer is "safe", even though nine children have died in recent years from head-meets-goalpost injuries...
Put a lid on it, Becks
If cyclists are forced to wear helmets, how long will it be before 'on me 'ead, son' isn't a footballer's request for a pass, it's a stipulation that footie players must also wear hard hats? A ludicrous suggestion? Not so. In America, 'soccer helmets', similar to those used in Aussie rules football, are becoming more and more popular, much to the chagrin of footballing organisations who say soccer is "safe", even though nine children have died in recent years from head-meets-goalpost injuries...
12-16-05, 07:13 AM
#17
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Soccer was the only game in which I was moderately proficient. Yes, occasionally, you, your team mates and opponents get hurt.
Therefore it's hard for me to accept soccer helmets, and I'm a safety nut.
I was hoping to see a photo, but I couldn't find one.
I'm sorry for the families that lose a child to a sports injury, but where do we draw the line? We just sit at home and die a slow death from heart disease?
Therefore it's hard for me to accept soccer helmets, and I'm a safety nut.
I was hoping to see a photo, but I couldn't find one.
I'm sorry for the families that lose a child to a sports injury, but where do we draw the line? We just sit at home and die a slow death from heart disease?
12-16-05, 07:49 AM
#18
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What is the point of this?
Just make helmet use optional and let darwin take care of the rest.
Just make helmet use optional and let darwin take care of the rest.
12-16-05, 10:14 AM
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Quote:Saturday 27th November 2004
Put a lid on it, Becks
If cyclists are forced to wear helmets, how long will it be before 'on me 'ead, son' isn't a footballer's request for a pass, it's a stipulation that footie players must also wear hard hats? A ludicrous suggestion? Not so. In America, 'soccer helmets', similar to those used in Aussie rules football, are becoming more and more popular, much to the chagrin of footballing organisations who say soccer is "safe", even though nine children have died in recent years from head-meets-goalpost injuries
Let's see 9 kids have dies in accidents "in recent years" from head meets goalpost incidents. How many have dies just this year in car meets car on the way to the pizza parlor/ice cream parlor after the game just this year?
I'll bet if we extend that to on the way to or from practive or a game the number that died just getting there are much higher than the number that died on the field as part of the match. No comment on how many die in the stands.
Put a lid on it, Becks
If cyclists are forced to wear helmets, how long will it be before 'on me 'ead, son' isn't a footballer's request for a pass, it's a stipulation that footie players must also wear hard hats? A ludicrous suggestion? Not so. In America, 'soccer helmets', similar to those used in Aussie rules football, are becoming more and more popular, much to the chagrin of footballing organisations who say soccer is "safe", even though nine children have died in recent years from head-meets-goalpost injuries
Let's see 9 kids have dies in accidents "in recent years" from head meets goalpost incidents. How many have dies just this year in car meets car on the way to the pizza parlor/ice cream parlor after the game just this year?
I'll bet if we extend that to on the way to or from practive or a game the number that died just getting there are much higher than the number that died on the field as part of the match. No comment on how many die in the stands.
12-16-05, 10:22 AM
#20
Senior Member
I think any number of deaths or serious injury would not be the focus of this. My take on it is that "they" are more worried about impairment of mental function.
12-16-05, 11:08 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Citadel Rider
Lets see now..... helmets for in the tub and shower... helmets for going up and down stairs... helmets for any handiman repairs around the house... helmets for in the kitchen -- you know how cupboard doors get left open......... heck, lets just wear helmets 24/7.
Nice designer helmets, flowers and paisley designs, your fav pet, your fav hobby -- stars and planets for astronomers, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, birds... you name it.
The sickest pukiest colours you can find.... swirls, eye-dazing confusing 3D designs.
Yupppers... I'm for helmets.... and shin pads and shoulder pads and hip pads and elbow pads...
OH YES..... lets not forget the neck collars !!!!
Save the money and just don't get out of bed. On second thought.. why be born at all?
Nice designer helmets, flowers and paisley designs, your fav pet, your fav hobby -- stars and planets for astronomers, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, birds... you name it.
The sickest pukiest colours you can find.... swirls, eye-dazing confusing 3D designs.
Yupppers... I'm for helmets.... and shin pads and shoulder pads and hip pads and elbow pads...
OH YES..... lets not forget the neck collars !!!!
Save the money and just don't get out of bed. On second thought.. why be born at all?
Hmm...you make a good point. But wouldn't body armor really be more protective? That's it! Just outfit everyone in Kevlar from birth.
12-16-05, 11:25 AM
#22
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Keith99
I'll bet if we extend that to on the way to or from practive or a game the number that died just getting there are much higher than the number that died on the field as part of the match.
Refusing to look at any resemblance of relative risk someone faces ends up in poorly managing risks by ignoring the likely and working on the unlikely resulting in more problems had the risks been managed effectively by focusing on the likely.
12-16-05, 12:09 PM
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Been thinking a bit again:
Anyone here follow the NHL (National Hockey League). Remember several years ago they noticed guys were getting hurt when they ran into the goals? They decided that having break away goals would help cut down on injuries. BUT it did not work out that way. Well actually it did for a little while. But then the guys adjusted. Before they had worried about driving hard to the goal because you might hit the poles. Soon they did not worry about it. The odds of injury in each incident went down, but the increased number pretty much made up for it. Goal keepers were the big losers as they got run into a lot more.
Just wondering. Think kids with helmets just mught try to head wildly. After all the kid with the helmet isn't going to get hurt, right? But posts will still win and other kids will get hit in the face by the helmets.
Hopefully this will not trickle into my sport (Rugby) until my playing days are over, 20 or 30 years from now.
Anyone here follow the NHL (National Hockey League). Remember several years ago they noticed guys were getting hurt when they ran into the goals? They decided that having break away goals would help cut down on injuries. BUT it did not work out that way. Well actually it did for a little while. But then the guys adjusted. Before they had worried about driving hard to the goal because you might hit the poles. Soon they did not worry about it. The odds of injury in each incident went down, but the increased number pretty much made up for it. Goal keepers were the big losers as they got run into a lot more.
Just wondering. Think kids with helmets just mught try to head wildly. After all the kid with the helmet isn't going to get hurt, right? But posts will still win and other kids will get hit in the face by the helmets.
Hopefully this will not trickle into my sport (Rugby) until my playing days are over, 20 or 30 years from now.
12-16-05, 12:09 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
...and there's the problem with this kind of tunnel vision.
Refusing to look at any resemblance of relative risk someone faces ends up in poorly managing risks by ignoring the likely and working on the unlikely resulting in more problems had the risks been managed effectively by focusing on the likely.
Refusing to look at any resemblance of relative risk someone faces ends up in poorly managing risks by ignoring the likely and working on the unlikely resulting in more problems had the risks been managed effectively by focusing on the likely.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
12-16-05, 12:21 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Being so eloquent in explaining risk management you're either a project manager or an insurance dude, right?