Bekologist

In many of the A&S threads I see a recurring theme in someone's tagline-

"safe and fun traffic cycling."

Now, I ride in big city traffic daily, metropolitian gridlock, and also rural highways, and enjoy myself while doing so.

However, riding in traffic is neither 'safe' nor 'fun' and anyone who would mischaracterize it as such is misleading themselves and the bicycling public fool enough to listen.

Any comments about 'safe and fun' traffic cycling?

Keith99

Safe and fun for riding in traffic is the same as for most other 'dangerous' things. Just listen to Dirty Harry.

A man's got to know his limitations.

As long as you don;t get in over your head it is both fun and safe. But what your limitations are can change over time. A few years ago when I was riding a lot I rode to Dodger stadium for opening day. Traffic was a zoo. But I was fit and sober, wearing bright clothes and faster than most of the cars. Perfectly safe.

I knew my limitations and hitched a ride back home. By the end of the game I was fit but hardly sober. I'm not sure how fit many of the drivers were, but I know there were plenty who were also hardlly sober.

genec

Well I find traffic cycling a bit of a chore... I can't go full bore, I have to spend part of my energy looking for the motorists that don't look for me, and I have to make a lot more judgements that I don't have to make when I drive. (do they see me... have they seen me... are they looking at me or through me... )

Now that said, do I enjoy my commute... yes and no. I do not enjoy the areas where there are lots of potential problems... many lanes coming from different directions with traffic moving at various speeds and for the most part, rather introspective (IE drivers only concerned about what they need to do in the next several seconds... vice being good drivers).

I do on the other hand just enjoy cycling. And there are some areas on my commute that are quite predictable and therefore enjoyable.

Would I ride in rush hour traffic if I had a choice. NO! I would not, but then I would avoid rush hour traffic at all times, if I had a choice.

Safe and fun. Nah... that is just ridiculous. It cannot be as safe as riding with no traffic... So the safety aspect is wrong. Fun... well some folks do enjoy pain... so whatever trips your trigger. Other folks seem to enjoy antagonizing dangerous creatures (jabbing sticks into the tiger's cage) again, whatever trips your trigger. So for some it could be fun.

My idea of biking fun doesn't involve second guessing stressed motoring commuters... so for me, the "fun" is vastly overated.

Now give me a quiet road with some dappled light, little to no MV traffic and some rolling hills... Now that is fun. And the fewer the MV traffic, the safer.

Helmet Head

I used to find cycling in traffic something of chore, like Gene describes. Not any more. I honestly look forward to engaging with folks in traffic. I enjoy the opportunity to exercise my negotiating techniques. It feels good to be treated respectfully, like a vehicle driver, because I'm acting like a vehicle driver, respectfully. It puts a smile on my face, and a wave in my hand.

Cycling in traffic IS fun and safe, for me. And it can be for you too.

sbhikes

Traffic is noisy and the fumes are toxic. Especially diesel fumes. I will ride on the sidewalk to get away from waiting in line behind a diesel at a traffic signal.

It is not safe and fun to ride in traffic. It is safe and fun to ride downhill on an empty bike path.

caloso

I have a lot of fun cruising past the backed up motor traffic on my way home. And by riding quickly, assertively, and legally, I feel very safe.

I don't think it's either delusional or misguided.

pmseattle

I enjoy riding in heavy traffic in downtown Seattle, but I don't think it's particularly safe. It's the same kind of "fun" you get from skiing or rock climbing.

Helmet Head

I prefer a quiet ride out in the country, of course, but I don't mind the noise. I certainly don't allow it to get to me. Frankly, I must not notice it, because I never think about it.

I don't like being stuck behind a diesel vehicle, especially a truck, but that happens very rarely. Overall, cars today are spewing out a lot fewer fumes than they did 30 years ago, and about the only time I'm ever bothered by fumes (except the occasional diesel) is on long climbs with lots of traffic (San Diegans, e.g., , up Torrey Pines hill going south from Torrey Pines beach).

Helmet Head

Exactly, and why would you put that type of fun in quotes, implying it's not real fun? If that's not real fun, what is?

genec

Because he is an adrenalin junky, and perhaps also enjoys jumping out of planes.

But fun is a relative thing. Some folks idea of fun is sitting in a quiet place reading books.

Others find hours of alcohol consumption along with driving the interstate to be fun...

Still others enjoy riding a bike without the noise, smell and aggrevation of traffic.

Some people like racing unlimited class motorboats. I race sailboats. See the contrast?

Bekologist

It's comments like this that make me think once again that the proponent of SFTC (safe and fun traffic cycling) doesn't ride his bike much! I get stuck behind, or have to split lanes at stops or generally ride in 'no-ride zones' to avoid diesel trucks pretty much daily. Any biker that pretends it doesn't happen to them often, obviously (to me) doesn't ride much OR practice what they preach.

I strongly dislike self-pontificating blowhards that have no idea what they're talking about.

sbhikes

HH doesn't live where there's a lot of construction, any fire trucks, any truck traffic of any kind, or any old Mercedes or VW diesels. I think he drives his bike down the luxurious lanes of La Jolla, and apparently, there's no construction going on among the wealthy elite La Jolla-ites or else he'd know what diesel trucks are like. I ride through Montecito, home of billionaires, and believe me those people are having a huge orgy of construction while the rest of us are losing our jobs to china...Sorry. Off topic.

Here's the deal. You take the words "riding a bike" and you get "fun". Add the words to "in traffic" to anything, and you get "not fun." Add the words "in traffic" to riding a bike, and you get "more fun than driving, but it is less fun than it could be". It's also a lot of work sometimes to ride a bike in traffic and work is not fun by definition!

Bekologist

I strongly doubt any theories of traffic cycling promoted by a cyclist that proudly proclaims he doesn't get caught up in truck traffic much.

It must be some amazing, smoke-and-mirrors cycling technique I'm not privy to.

genec

Guys, I hate to defend him, but we only work a couple miles apart and live about 5 miles apart. I know the roads he travels... although I cannot tell you when.

Believe me, these are not nice, pristine, "friendly" roads. One area he rides is a real PITA bottleneck full of motorists that often have no idea what lane they want to be in... at the other end of his route, is a rather fast 6 lane road full of stressed broker types. I ride right through that area too, but perpendicular to HH's route.

Now it could be that his commute is timed to miss most of the space cases out there... but take it from me, his route is no piece of cake. Really.

But since I have not actually commuted with him... I don't know if he uses some "magic" on the route or not.

The only times I have ridden with him were group rides and he pulled a pretty good pace... and there was nothing magic about what he did.

Same thing when we took the Road II class. I did not see any special techniques.

Now the area I ride... phsssh. I followed 4 double dump trucks to the office today at about 1:00. I know diesel stinks. BTW my riding partner chose to go between these things... so there were 3 trucks, then her (tiny woman, but she is a triathlete) and then one more truck. I hung back and rode behind them. (actually she kicked my ass going up the hill... and happened to get there first).

Just trying to keep it real.

BearsPaw

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but cycling in traffic doesn't seem that dangerous to me. I've been riding in the street, in Philly, for seven years. I've been honked at twice. Once it was some drunk yahoos from Jersey, and another time it was some UPenn brats in an SUV who didn't realize that bikes were allowed in the roads too. (No offense intended towards anyone that goes to Penn.) I don't think either of them intended any physical harm. I was also "tapped" by a car once, but it was nothing serious.

Other than this, I've not had any trouble. Some of the posters on this site make it sound like they are nearly killed on a daily basis. What's going on?

el twe

While it isn't always safe, it is generally quite a lot of fun.

Bekologist

Gene, you may ride near the same roads the safe and friendly traffic cyclist lives near, but its debatable to me how much actual fun-n-friendly road time he gets in with all the traffic.

somehow, not encountering truck traffic while riding in traffic is a method I'm not even able to duplicate, much less advocate

Helmet Head

Bek, there are 9 traffic signals on my 6 mile commute, unless I missed one or two. Most of the time when I'm stopped at these signals I'm not behind a truck, and, when I am behind a truck, I'm usually able to avoid the exhaust. But, once in a while, I do happen to be behind a truck that's diesel and I'm in the fumes. But, that happens very rarely. When I'm not stopped at a light, if there is a truck around, it passes me and it's gone. No big deal.

Diane, there is always a lot of construction going on in La Jolla, but I'm usually traveling in the opposite direction from them.

Bekologist

that's interesting, and i'll take your approach that diesel exhaust isn't a big deal to you.

I find that strange and unrealistic, compared to actually riding a bike in traffic. Diesel exhaust, and getting caught up behind trucks spewing exhaust, are some of the biggest mundane, everyday hassles of a being a bicyclist in traffic.

If you don't think these are much of an issue, your 'safe and fun' traffic cycling 'theory' is based on something other than actual biking.

It's an unrealistic, might i say, delusional and misguided look at biking by someone who doesn't ride in traffic much. Far as I can tell.

but so goes another turn of the wheels....

ceridwen

More and more I think this has a LOT to do with where you are. Florida is absolutely awful for this. People will yell all kinds of things at you (same if you are a pedestrian, +1000 if you are female). They buzz you, they will throw things at you. It's incredible. And it does NOT all go away when you behave like a vehicle. I wish it did, it would make my life a lot easier.

I'm sure this is related to our ridiculously high rates of pedestrian and cyclist injuries and fatalities.

Edit: I might add that I recently stopped and had a conversation with one of the crossing guards who works the corner outside my apt complex (there is an elementary school down the street, they are there twice a day to help the kids cross). He says he is laughed at and abused verbally on a daily basis. People will even try to go through the intersection while he's holding up things for the kids to cross, and give him the finger when he makes them stop.

noriel

I have fun in gridlock. I have the choice of going on two roads that are parallel to each other (Main and Fannin in the Med Center for those of you familiar with Houston). One (Fannin) has a lot of stop lights, two lanes, a light rail, and is always backed up when work lets out. The other street, Main, has two more lanes, fewer stops, and traffic zips along at least 35-50 mph. I rode on Main for a year but got fed up with cars trying to cut me off so they could make the exit just in front of me. For me, gridlocked cars are safer than moving ones.

Ceridwen, that is really sad what you write about the crossing guard. I remember here a few years ago, an elderly lady crossing guard got killed. She was assertive and would ding cars with her stop sign. I don't know if her death was related to her assertiveness.

UmneyDurak

I'm not sure if I describe it as "fun", but it's certainly less stressfull then driving. I freaken hate people who can't even go the damn speed limit in left most lane, and that take 2 miles just to hit something that approaches moving forward.
Woosa, Woosa back to my happy place.

LittleBigMan

It would be impossible to argue whether or not cycling in traffic is "fun," since what's fun for you might not be fun for someone else. The only thing left to argue is whether or not it is "safe," and you can't do that unless you can measure it, and since we don't all agree whether or not safety can actually be measured scientifically, this thread is destined to become another verbal tennis match with the usual players and no winner.

genec

Exactly! "Fun" is very personal and relative.

However... as far as the safety factor goes... quite obviously the more traffic, the greater the chance of a bad encounter.

Bekologist

i'd speculate for most riders, the ratios of perceived 'fun' and perceived or actual 'safety':to cars decreases in relation to the increase of traffic density.

Don't get me wrong, i twaddle along and also ride like a banshee in traffic (depending entirely on traffic density and all those darn exhaust spewing vehicles), assertively using my 'negotiating' skills to command full lanes of traffic with nothing more than a fingle waggle and a shoulder check, I'm no traffic shrinking violet,

but to pretend that 'fun and safe' traffic cycling methodology is worthy of an advocacy platform is delusional and misguiding.