tomcryar

Xx

Sprocket Man

Though I can relate to your sentiments, yelling at people rarely accomplishes anything. Actually, I used to be a pretty reckless rider myself, but as I grew older, I stopped doing some of the crazy stuff I used to do. One can only hope that this rider will wise up before he hurts anyone, including himself.

EnigManiac

I see fools like that every day. There are far too many of them giving the rest of us a bad name. In fact, last night while out at the pub we have to step outside onto the sidewalk to have a smoke and each time I did, I counted the number of cyclists riding within inches of me (I don't get out of the way) and there were 17.

But if you don't mind me asking, what were YOU doing on the sidewalk on your bike?

EnigManiac

I appreciate the dangers you face, but if you take into consideration that 15 fatalities really isn't that many considering the number of cyclists in your city and county. It is also possible that a good third of those fatalities occured when cyclists were on the sidewalk and passing over driveways, cross-streets and laneways. Most studies show that 35% of accidents involving cyclists occured when a cyclist was on the sidewalk. And it just seems hypocritical that you'd complain so vociferously about a sidewalk cyclist when you were admittedly doing the same thing, though perhaps not quite as dangerously.

dsc113

You ride on the sidewalk!!! ther'es really nothing left to discuss tom.

SteveE

Yeah, I had someone like that blow through a light that I was stopped at a couple of days ago. I told him he gave cyclists a bad name as I passed him. He seemed pretty oblivious.

EnigManiac

Relax. I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I simply pointed out a rather glaring and obvious fact.

As a cycling commuter for more than twenty-five years as well as a published cycling advocate, I know exactly whereof I speak. Studies both here in Toronto and in other American cities universally confirm that approximately 30% of accidents involving cyclists occur as a result of sidewalk cycling.

Riding on the sidewalk is several more times more dangerous than riding in the street. (William Moritz, 1998)

(https://www.toronto.ca/transportation...report_ch3.pdf) (page 11)

Think it's safer on the sidewalk?
Think again!
Cyclists who ride on sidewalks are more likely to be involved in a collision - either by crashing into street furniture, pedestrians or cars pulling out of driveways - than those who ride on the road. Cyclists should be visible, predictable and have the ability to maneuver easily through any situation. Riding on the sidewalk makes these much more difficult, so take your place on the road. - https://www.ottawasafecommunities.org/safe_cycling.htm

While I won't defame you by challenging your claim that 99% of accidents/fatalities were on the road, I'll highlight that a cyclist coming off the sidewalk and onto the road and being hit or hitting a vehicle is considered a sidewalk-related accident even if they were technically killed on the road. I have never heard of a study where only 1% of fatalities were sidewalk based, but if you say so...

I did read where you mentioned the high incidence of motor vehicle crashes, but that does not diminish the fact that it remains even more dangerous to you to operate your vehicle on a pedestrian way. I wasn't discounting the reckless and foolish behaviour of the cyclist you witnessed; it was stupid, no question. I am sure you don't ride like that: blow through red lights or weave arund pedestrians at an unreasonable speed. It's just that you were so incensed that he came up onto the sidewalk and you, too, were on a sidewalk and that smacks of hypocrisy whether you are the least hypocritical person you know or not. In most jurisdictions in North America, it is illegal for an adult to ride on the sidewalk (childrens bicycles with 20" rims or less are permitted) as it endangers pedestrians needlessly and puts the cyclist at greater risk. There's not a study I've ever heard of that will dispute that.

Whether you want to hear verifiable facts or not, the facts are if you DO know how to ride, you can and will avoid most collisions (I ride a minimum 10km daily and have not been in an accident in 24 years) by paying attention, as you mention, and following simple rules of the ROAD, one of which is not to ride on the sidewalk (it's not part of the road, after all).

Nuff said. Good luck in your rides. Take care.

dsc113

Bikes Are For The Road!!!

lyeinyoureye

That's one thing I always liked about cycling, if you do crazy stupid ****, odds are you'll only be responsible for your own death/injury, unless you manage to hit a ped, which seems pretty rare.

sunofsand

crashing into street furniture


LOL

TAKE THE BIKE AWAY

catatonic

I say let Darwin rack up a few more points. Lots of roadies out here are bad like that.

The club rides have a few stop signs that get ignored entirely, but stop lights DO get paid attention to.

rule

tbdean

On the sidewalk you shouldn't follow the rules of the road. Road riding is much too fast for the sidewalk. You'll injure pedestrians as you try to pass them and confuse drivers as you enter and exit the roadway.

If you're on the sidewalk you should follow the rules of the sidewalk. A 2 - 3 MPH pace, get off and walk across driveways and intersections, etc.

sgtsmile

nownow, dont pick on the roadies. Lots of cyclists are bad like that, not just roadies. Cyclists of every stripe are fully capable of doing silly things and creating problems.

fordfasterr

Specially those dirty nasty fixed gear people... scumbags they are !!!

rando

for god's sake, man, haven't you learned? if you ride on the sidewalk don't mention it in BF or some VC safety nanny will jump your ****.

Enigmatic, I looked at the study you cited. over half (53%) of the cyclists involved in sidewalk accidents in the study in Toronto were under 18. more experienced adults are apparently more able to avoid the incredible minefield of dangerous sidewalk accidents than kids...

slowandsteady

I see your logic.... The laws only apply to you when you want them to. What if the drivers of cars drove up on the sidewalk ONLY when they had to get to work or when they were picking up beer and smokes? After all, they had to get somewhere, beer and cigarrettes are necessities, why should they have to abide by the laws? Just goes to show there is no reality, just perception.... What a nut.

slowandsteady

So tell me, how do you make a left turn from the sidewalk?

Do you stop at every block?

tbdean

ha! What was this thread about again?

rando

sidewalk furniture.

I think.

EnigManiac

While I don't dispute that just over half of the sidewalk cycling accidents involvved kids under 18, I also cite personal experience (Wednesday evening is a prime example - see my firsy reply) where I was very nearly hit a total of 17 times in only two hours by adult sidewalk cyclists. Granted, the pub I was visiting exits directly onto the sidewalk and anyone exiting any of the adjacent stores or above-store apartment would step directly into the path of a sidewalk cyclist, not all sidewalks present such sudden dangers. It still doesn't explain, however, why there are so many adult sidewalk cyclists on such a dangerous sidewalk when a perfectly safe road is merely inches away and was being used by literally hundreds of cyclists during the same period on Wednesday evening.

chipcom 

Come on dude, his riding habits represent the majority of cyclists, not the minority, like us (except for the riding to work part, which is also in the minority). I may not be a fan of riding on the sidewalk, but that's my opinion and not license to look down my nose or castigate those who ride the sidewalk. I don't see anything at all wrong with what he's stated and I think we should stick to the subject of the idiot in the road running the light, rather than start a sidewalk cycling lecture...I think there is a sticky for that.

banerjek

I can't say I've ever modified my behavior based on advice yelled at me. With the exception of friendly yells from people I know (I tell my friends and wife to yell, honk, or even buzz me if they feel the inclination since it helps me hone my reflexes so I'll do the right thing in real situations), about 98% of the advice yelled at me recommends that I do something illegal, stupid, or maybe try some new sexual activity.

The remaining 2% is where I screwed up. In those cases, I deserve to be yelled at, but I still don't pay attention. I already know what I did wrong, and being vented on doesn't make me feel more guilty. Actually, somewhat less so, since I've paid part of the price for doing the wrong thing.

slowandsteady

first of all, I am a dudette.

Personally, I don't care if someone rides on the sidewalk or not. I am not a VC nut. I agree with many of the principles, but am not appalled and horrified like some others in this forum, when other cyclists are less informed. Cycling is a very safe activity even if you are not following all of the rules. No sense getting the panties in a bunch over a sidewalk rider.

What I took offense to, is the OPs tunnel vision perception that this other sidewalk rider was at fault, guilty, a law breaker, and an idiot, when the OP was doing the same thing and felt justified. It was the selective applicability of the laws dependent upon why the OP was riding on the sidewalk. The OP stated that it was okay to ride on the sidewalk because he was getting beer and smokes. It was the hypocrisy that I was speaking to.

TacoPropelled

op is a troll. not a very good one at that.