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New Sharrow the SIZE OF A PARKED CAR

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New Sharrow the SIZE OF A PARKED CAR

Old 08-30-06, 07:52 AM
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New Sharrow the SIZE OF A PARKED CAR

Seattle had their first open "Bicycle Master Plan" meeting where a half a thousand bicyclists swarmed the UW hall rented for the occasion. there was a lot of 'feelgood' roadway striping plans being introduced to more cleanly unify Seattles' broken string of veloaccomodations, but the most interesting development i saw in the various design charettes were...

SHARROWS THE SIZE OF A PARKED CAR....currently being tested in California, and soon to pass AASHTO muster for nationwide implementation.

These new, MUCH LARGER sharrows have been and are still being studied and tested in California. Drivers find these much more visible. sorry i don't have any pictures, they only had a photo on powerpoint.

Very interesting, supersized sharrows.

In rebuttal, to present the oppositions' opinion about roadway accomodations that benefit bicyclists,

In the spirit of the alpha dawg, lanegrabbing, powerweavin' "VC-APPROVED" Jedi mind-meld mirror master, "we don't neeeed no stinkeen' sharrows"
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Old 08-30-06, 08:36 AM
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shar the ro.
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Old 08-30-06, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
SHARROWS THE SIZE OF A PARKED CAR....currently being tested in California, and soon to pass AASHTO muster for nationwide implementation.

These new, MUCH LARGER sharrows have been and are still being studied and tested in California. Drivers find these much more visible.
In my mind, this eliminates the two major problems I have with our local "bike lanes." 1) Debris, and 2) lack of width.

I like it much better. Thanks, Bek.
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Old 08-30-06, 10:13 AM
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Sharrows are much better than bike lanes, and making them as big as parked cars takes care of the main problem with the smaller ones - implying that where the small sharrow is the one and only place where cyclists are supposed to be.

Did they say where in CA they were being tested?
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Old 08-30-06, 10:38 AM
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..that last point about value and worth is entirely judgemental, and subject to local roadway interps, usage and grade, hed....you know that!

but i do not know where they are getting on the road testing in CA- obviously, not where hed bikes. if and when he bikes. obviously.
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Old 08-30-06, 10:43 AM
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What is a "sharrow"?
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Old 08-30-06, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Eli_Damon
What is a "sharrow"?
Big arrow with in this case probably a bike symbol.

Something like (but not exactly) this:
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Old 08-30-06, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
Big arrow with in this case probably a bike symbol.

Something like (but not exactly) this:
What kind of paint do they use? I would wonder how slippery those would be in the rain (a lot of the road paint used around here is so thick that it has a raised surface and is very slick when wet).
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Old 08-30-06, 11:25 AM
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Sharrow is way better than a bike lane stripe. It designates a general 'area' for cyclists, but does not 'confine' the cyclist.

Width is a big issue, and one of my personal peeves with bike lanes: They are way too narrow and the width is inconsistent.
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Old 08-30-06, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by galen_52657
Sharrow is way better than a bike lane stripe. It designates a general 'area' for cyclists, but does not 'confine' the cyclist.

Width is a big issue, and one of my personal peeves with bike lanes: They are way too narrow and the width is inconsistent.
True, which is why I generally ignore them.... (of course, the ontario traffic act lets me do this, whew)
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Old 08-30-06, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sgtsmile
What kind of paint do they use? I would wonder how slippery those would be in the rain (a lot of the road paint used around here is so thick that it has a raised surface and is very slick when wet).
What you have is probably thermoplastic and not paint. We use paint here, even multiple layers are still flat to the pavement, and it doesn't get slippery when wet. Unfortunately on a busy road the markings get faint after only one year.
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Old 08-30-06, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sgtsmile
True, which is why I generally ignore them.... (of course, the ontario traffic act lets me do this, whew)
I feel that the sharrows are there mainly for the cars, not the bikes. To let them know that bikes are allowed and should be expected here.

It's been pointed out that they also serve as an irrefutable argument to wrong-way cyclists that YES, dammit, they ARE going the wrong way.
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Old 08-30-06, 12:33 PM
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Those sharrow deals seem pretty cool to me. The designated bike lane is nice too though, although around here(many other places too) it is also the designated street sweeper dump, drunk frat boys bottle return and many other things beside just a measly bike lane.
I've taken it on as my own personal Crusade to make sure to educate people when they are going the wrong way. Part of my implementation of this new syllabus was to mount some 5" wide longhorns on the front of my SWB recumbent. I already look out of the ordinary now that I have horns on my bike, people know I mean business!(they aren't any wider than my cranks/pedals but it's funny anyway). Yelling and the Airzound are also key in this crusade.
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Old 08-30-06, 12:43 PM
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Bike lanes are not the street sweeper dump, they are the traffic sweeper dump.

Moving traffic constantly sweeps the roadway. Since they treat a bike lane like a shoulder, they don't drive there, and, so, everything their movement sweeps off the roadway goes into the bike lane.

Street sweepers love bike lanes... it gives them purpose.
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Old 08-30-06, 12:53 PM
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Thanks to genec for the picture by way of education for those of us unfamiliar with the sharrow

I like the idea

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Old 08-30-06, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by galen_52657
Width is a big issue, and one of my personal peeves with bike lanes: They are way too narrow and the width is inconsistent.
Bike lanes in the Netherlands are two meters wide, wide enough to ride side by side in. Bike lanes in the US are whatever size they have room left over for, generally anywhere between three and five feet wide, very ocassionally six feet.

Sharrows also work on streets without room for a separate bike lane, and I think they are a great educational tool for motorists, showing them that bikes are allowed and expected to take the lane.
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Old 08-30-06, 01:56 PM
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I rode through Davis,California Sunday and they have wide bike lanes, crossing buttons to trigger the stoplights for bicycles, bicycle overpasses, share the road signs, etc. Where were all the other bicycles? On the sidewalk. I love the idea of sharrows, but will it make a difference to the average cyclist?
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Old 08-30-06, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by scottmorrison99
I rode through Davis,California Sunday and they have wide bike lanes, crossing buttons to trigger the stoplights for bicycles, bicycle overpasses, share the road signs, etc. Where were all the other bicycles? On the sidewalk. I love the idea of sharrows, but will it make a difference to the average cyclist?
When the infrastructure treats cyclists like pedestrians, they will act like pedestrians.
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Old 08-30-06, 09:43 PM
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i have never ridden in davis but i highly doubt their bike transit plan treats bicyclists like pedestrians in any significant % percents, hed.

so helmet head is FOR a transportation plan that includes sharrows as part of the velo accomodation network?

glad to see you being able to support bicycling infrastructure integrated with the existing roadway, helmet head. good on ya.

next topic, just to give hed a 'heads up'- we'll discuss the advantages an uphill 'passing lane' for bikes will have for bicyclists...

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Old 08-30-06, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by scottmorrison99
I love the idea of sharrows, but will it make a difference to the average cyclist?
I have no idea what is happening in that all-american bicycling city, Davis, CA- but generally, a transportation network that vigorously supports bicyclists in the transit mix affects the numbers and riding styles of bicyclists. off the sidewalks and onto the streets, so to speak.


accomodation advantages extend even to roads without any special accoms. take the possibilities 10 "Bikes allowed use of full lane"signs, strategically placed, in a small town would have. even towns of under a thousand can have high speed choke points, and angry drivers. bike friendly accomodations like signage, sharrows and roadway striping that accomodates bikes in the traffic mix makes the difference.

in Portland, look at the recent reports in bike forums- biking trips have increased fivefold in the last decade. a vigorous transportation network that supports bicyclists makes the difference. Seattle, up %257 percent in the same time frame, i believe.

the network engineers and the roadway designers KNOW that the adage, "Build it, and they will ride." is increasingly true in more and more cities across the globe.

A vigorous transportation plan that fully supports bikes on road, on trail and intermodally, will make a difference.

Last edited by Bekologist; 08-30-06 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 08-31-06, 02:29 AM
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Sharrows appear to be the one on-street facility that we all support. As to where they are being tested, I have seen them in San Fransisco (alas, I didn't have my bike with me there). One big obstacle to putting them in is that they are not yet approved by the official federal road signage manual (someone can add the acronym, because I have forgotten it, MUT-something or another, I think). Some local transportation planners cannot depart from that manual for bureaucratic reasons.
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Old 08-31-06, 07:31 AM
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I think the only issue with sharrows is that they will need to be redone often as the constant wear from automobiles driving over them will wear away the paint quickly. Other than that, I can see no harm from adding them. I think they'd be a great addition to some of the high speed arterial roads around here.
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Old 08-31-06, 08:39 AM
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Hopefully they won't be painted in the parking lane like this one in St Lous:

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Old 08-31-06, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Daily Commute
Sharrows appear to be the one on-street facility that we all support. As to where they are being tested, I have seen them in San Fransisco (alas, I didn't have my bike with me there).
Actually, I'm not sure that I support them! I'm not against them either, I just don't know what they contribute. The only place I have seen them they are (a) too close to the curb, and (b) so faded that you have to stand over one for a while to figure out what it is!

I'm not aware of any plans to use or test sharrows here, so I won't get a chance to experience them for myself or speak with local users any time soon.
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Old 08-31-06, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by patc
Actually, I'm not sure that I support them! I'm not against them either, I just don't know what they contribute. The only place I have seen them they are (a) too close to the curb, and (b) so faded that you have to stand over one for a while to figure out what it is!

I'm not aware of any plans to use or test sharrows here, so I won't get a chance to experience them for myself or speak with local users any time soon.
When properly placed and used, I think they just serve as a "government-sanctioned" reminder that we are on the road and have a right to be. Kind of like those "bikes on road" signs. It won't reach all motorists, but many people are primed to give approval to those who already have some approval. Badly worded, but maybe someone else knows what I'm trying to say and can say it better?
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