EnigManiac

City wants plates for couriers:
By SOPHIE NICHOLLS, 24 HOURS

Toronto's bicycle couriers could soon be decked out in more than just bike gear and a radio.

Licence plates are once again on the city's radar.

The controversial issue to license couriers was revisited Tuesday at City Hall and could come into effect once the City of Toronto Act sets in next year.

"At the moment we have the ability to license no couriers whatsoever," says Coun. Howard Moscoe, adding the power is in the province's hands.

Moscoe would like to see a detailed report prepared within a year, so he can propose licensing all couriers, including vehicles and bicycles.

"I think it should be all couriers ... you can't just do one," he says. "But the real problem primarily are the bicycle couriers who dash down main streets, bowling people over, cut in and out of traffic and generally create hazardous situations."

Glen Hofman, a bike courier for 14 years, disagrees, saying that those who ride radically are the simply "bad apples in the bunch".

"Those are new people that think there is a sub-cultural coolness to being a courier," he says, adding the proposal is just another cash grab for the city. "We're busting our balls to make minimum wage ... they are picking on the wrong people."

Jonathan St. Rose, a courier for 16 years, agrees, adding the city better become more bicycle friendly if more restrictions are imposed. He also demands that all cyclists be licensed.

"What's in it for me? What rights do I get?" he asks. "If they are going to pick on us, then they have to pick on everyone else."

webist

Although I do not at all believe in the practicality or usefulness of lisencing of a bicycle, I am curious. Do couriers need an individual business lisence in order to operate, or do they operate under the business lisence of a courier service of some kind?

Severian

afaik courier outfits are bonded and insured to carry sensative documents by law and companies expect this bonding process as a mark of respectability, reliability and confidentiality. At least the one we have in my city is bonded and insured.

I agree that it seems that TO is just trying to squeeze money out of another population. They may have a valid point in wanting couriers lisenced but what would they do to regulate lisenced bike couriers? They can, and do already, fine, jail and confiscate the bikes of couriers who break the law.

y'know, it's stuff like this that makes me want to consider being a libertarian. Except that party seems to be full of social conservatives and people who seem to forget that taxes pay for services and schools, not just politicians' and civil workers' salaries.

ugh, politics. Shutting up now.

withak

Yeah, the people doing the things being complained about are breaking existing laws. Potentially adding "unlicensed couriering" to the list isn't going to make them obey traffic laws.

pedex

No we dont have to be bonded, if you run your own business all you need is a trade name and a bank account, no insurance, thats the minimum, running as an LLC avoids almost all liability just like any other LLC, so thats what most courier services do. Most courier services employ private contractors and have full indemnity from the actions of the private contractor, this is done thru the independent contractor contract most services require you to sign before you work. You work as an independent contractor and you are defenseless against the world.

Bonding is to cover losses if you handle cash or other easily converted merchandise, which we usually do not, I handle all sorts of things that are usually only valuable because of the time factor, or things like checks which are worthless till they get to the bank or recipient and are endorsed.

Boston already requires messengers to be licensed, its a fee or tax and a tag is issued which has to be on the bike, usually on the back somewhere, other than adding revenue to the city it does nothing.

Locally, here in columbus, traffic infractions mean confiscation of your bike for up to 90 days at the discretion of the officer, they usualy dont do it, but Ive had it happen once to me.

Realistically, guys like me that do this for a living full time as a permanent occupation or profession arent that reckless, nor would licensing do anything cept piss me off. Rule number one is survival, a tag isnt worth dying for. IMHO, they wanna license us, then that $$ should be put into escrow to help us when we get injured by uninsured or underinsured motorists or we hurt someone on the job.

Ive had 2 car-bike collisions in 5 years, neither my fault, one was potentially serious, I got broadsided by a police car that ran a red light, I walked away from it. Ive had 3 bike-pedestrian collisons, all of which involved jaywalkers stepping into my path after they failed to look left at all before stepping into the street, Ive had this happen so many times its silly. I see someone do this almost daily. First place you ALWAYS check first is to the left, thats the direction traffic will ALWAYS be coming from first, yet people look to the right and start walking anyway !!

Lets put this into perspective here, in the city I work in, there's about 20 messengers, population of the metro area is 1.1 million people, this is pretty typical, we are so rare most people dont even know we exist and never ever see us or meet one, is this worth licensing? Of course not. Do we break the law, yep, every single day, hundreds of times a day, you wanna survive doing what I do? Then guess what, its one of the things you learn quickly, sometimes its better to be where the cars arent, you cant get hit that way. Other times its better to be in the middle of the street where drivers cant help but see you, that too is something thats learned, part of the job is knowing these things. Most messengers have a serious incident in the first year or so, after that, its incredibly rare, and often after youve become seasoned, if you have an incident, you will likely be killed or worse. The job does not suffer foolishness.

Most cities do not like us one bit, our customers do because we make miracles happen. Its a status or class issue at its very heart I think, we make money doing something that isnt supposed to happen anymore, and thats riding a bike in a world dominated by cars, the establishment fears this. Here locally though this has changed, the parking meter people now ride bikes, and the bike patrols have increased a bit, the city finally woke up, and the cops leave us alone nowadays, but those of us that are left, are mostly long term pro's. Only 3 or 4 are newbies anymore, so they let us do our thing and we stay out of trouble.

tomcryar

In my state, motorcyclists have to pass a test to get an endorsement on their driver license that states they are allowed to ride a motorcycle. I think it may be time for the same thing for bicyclists. I have seen so many cyclists doing the wrong thing, that I think maybe it should be legislative----if you want the same rights, than deal with what it takes to gain the same rights. Don't snivel over some obscure situation that you think is wrong, tell the right people what you think, don't waste it on this forum.
Me? I'll live my life like I always have---give and take..

lyledriver

Here in Van, the couriers have to have a license.
Its a cute little 3 digit plate, that you get for paying something like $25 and taking a written test.
Apparently they used to give you a traffic test on the bike as well, but that was a joke.

Does it help the couriers behave? not really.
Would they just spend that $25 at the Brickyard? probably.

fordfasterr

Do you think that because someone has a license that they are somehow more entitled to using the road?

Also, do you think that having a license really qualifies someone to actually drive a vehicle?

If a pedestrian is hit by a car while crossing the street, he was on the road.. should pedestrians have to get a license for using the road ?

lol

EnigManiac

One has to look at WHO is making this an issue here in TO. Howard Moscoe is an arrogant, egotistical blow-hard who runs the transit commission among his other duties...oh, and openly operates his own business through his publicly funded office with publicly funded equipment for which he claims he reimburses. He doesn't ride the TTC or a bike and only drives a car. Two respected general managers have quit the transit commission as a result of Moscoe's direct interference in their functions. The guy has about as much credibility as The Pope would if he were marshall of the Gay Pride Parade. He probably thought of this brilliant idea after almost having his chubby toes run over by a courier bouncing up on the sidewalk in front of him trying to deliver some document to someone. Of course, if that courier was delivering him an important document, it wouldn't matter whom he ran over to get it to him pronto, but since Moscoe was probably on his way to his publicly paid for car or the hotdog stand, it became an issue for the pompous SOB.

Wogster

Good old Howard Moscoe, gee Howie, I've seen your picture
and man, you could use some serious bike time dude

As for couriers, my old IT business dealt with courier software, so I know how it works. The courier (the guy who shows up at the door), with most bike couriers is an independant contractor working on commission. Here is how it works, say the commission is 75%, and the package costs $20, the courier gets $15, they pay ALL of their expenses out of their commission, so for car couriers, gas prices letely have not been helpful.

Why does the city need to regulate couriers at all, there are BIG issues with it, some couriers are national in scope (UPS, FedEx, Purolator, DHL, etc), and are federally regulated, some are regional and provincially regulated, making national and regional couriers need to follow a set of municipal regulations, would simply make it more expensive for the customers. Customers are already ticked off with fuel surcharges going through the roof.

Licensing bicycles isn't a bad idea, however I think it should be done at the Provincial level, not the city level, the Province has experience registering vehicles, it costs next to nothing to add bicycle as a class of vehicles, to the vehicle database. Motorcycles already have plates of the appropriate size and design, so it's just adding a new colour maybe. Licence offices are everywhere, the province could do it for $10/yr.

The city will probably spend the price if a gross of subway cars, have a goofy plate design that is really too big and ugly, and require that you go down to city hall to apply, end up with an expensive fee, and then a $10 ticket for not having one.