lighthorse@eart

The wife and I were on our morning ride along a limited access road which is full of bikes and joggers each morning. Although this is a narrow road with no shoulders or bike lane, drivers on the route are normally very considerate, the 20 mph speed limit and speed bumps help.

This day a speeding pickup truck passes us and comes very close to both of us. In the lead, I watch as he turns into a driveway and think "great, he is home and out of our hair." But he slams on his brakes, his back up lights come on, and is now about to back out onto the narrow roadway right as I am behind him. Both of us ring our bells and shout at him. Thank goodness he stops and lets my wife pass safely, we are doing 18-20 mph. The next thing I hear is the squeal of tires on asphault. Yes, here comes the pickup once again in our direction. This time he doesn't pass, he just pulls up and puts his right front bumper next to my saddle.

Road rage is in the air.

We all stop and he is sitting there shouting at us with the windows closed and motor running. We can't hear what he is saying. I finally got him to roll down the passenger window and said, "Great morning isn't it." That seemed to defuse him somewhat. He was angry that we had shouted and waved at him. I noted that we only wanted to be sure that he saw us and did not back out and hit us. I also explained that a mistake like that was nothing but a scratch on his fender but a broken leg to us. He drove off.

After going over this later we realized that part of the problem was that this vehicle had all of the windows tinted so heavily that we could not see inside at all. When we saw the back up lights come on we could not tell if the driver was looking outside in our direction. There was no way to make eye contact and we reacted by shouting and waving which flipped his trigger since he must have been watching us.

So, I am now much more cautious around the totally blacked out vehicles. Eye contact is important to me.

CliftonGK1

Did you get a plate #? Check the local regulations on window tinting, and report him if he's in violation. Most states have rules about the % transmission of light on window tinting. Typically it's allowed to be darker on the rear windows than on the front windows/windshield. If you couldn't see him at all, it could be an illegal tint job.

banerjek

Well handled. Being friendly is the best way to diffuse situations. Last night, I was involved in an incident where the motorist wound up defusing me -- I can't remember this occuring before.

I'm riding along a 2 lane highway at a decent clip and this pickup that wants to cross the highway guns his engine just as I approach. Had he let me pass, there would have been way more than enough space to cross the highway at walking speed. Instead, he gunned the engine to get across quickly while I jammed my brakes to avoid a certain collision.

I yell "Hey!" and give a WTF? sign with my left hand as soon as I had enough control to do so. He smiled and gave a friendly wave as if I'd just slowed down on purpose to let him through and given a wave of acknowledgement. For all I know, that's what he may have thought happened.

In any case, I couldn't even tell if I should be mad and it's probably better that way.

Helmet Head

When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized (like the driveway this pickup driver pulled into), you should be far out in the traffic lane. On a narrow road like this I would be at least out at the LEFT tire track. This makes you more visible and gives you more buffer space from anyone pulling out (forward or backward) of that place.

flipped4bikes

HH, it is nice of you to offer tips as you do, but can't you see the forest (OPs point) for the trees (VCness)? I'm sure you recognize how the OP defused the situation. It wouldn't hurt you to say so, and stop going on about how you would have handled the incident instead.

I really think lighthorse and his wife did very well here. Much better than I would have dealt with it.

sbhikes

The lane position isn't the issue here. I find it very disconcerting when I can't make eye-contact because of window tinting or some other reason. I rely on making eye contact with people to judge basic safety conditions. I feel it's my responsibility to ensure my safety and part of that is looking at people, indicating to them my intentions, and determining whether or not they understood me. If I cannot get any indication that they saw me or understood me, I'm left kinda hanging. Lane position has nothing to do with it. Some guy backing out of a driveway is going to cream you whether you're on the shoulder or in the lane. You need to know whether or not he has looked back and seen you.

San Rensho 

When you can't make eye contact, then you have to have a plan "b". In that situation, I first assume the worst, that they are going to try to intentionally hit me. Not that they are or they will, but then I can plan for an exit from any siuation.

The second thing I look for are tell-tale signs from the car. Tires will turn a moment before the car actually turns, telling me which way the car will go. The front or rear of the car will go up or down slightly on acceleration or braking. Engine rpm and tire noise can also indicate acceleration, braking and turning.

Helmet Head

Good point.

Given the situation, I think Lighthorse and his wife responded admirably. I know how difficult, and rewarding, it can be to hold back from losing it and start with, "isn't it a nice day?", or, my favorite, "hey, how's it going?"

Helmet Head

But if you're further out in the lane you have more room and time to determine what he's doing. If you're riding near the curb, you don't have the luxury to find out if he's going to backup, because, if he is, it's too late. So you have to yell and make noise in advance, just in case. But if you're further out in the lane, you have the time and space to just proceed, while keeping an eye on what he's doing. Most likely, he's not going to back all the way out (because he sees you, though you can't verify this), and you'll be fine. On the other hand, if he does start backing out you'll have time to stop in time, or to speed up in time, or maybe even temporarily cut into the oncoming lane (it's a 20 mph street, for goodness sake), to avoid him. Remember, you're traveling at 20 mph. That's 30 feet per second. That means you can cover the width of 6 foot wide truck in a fifth of a second. Meanwhile, he's stopped in the driveway, and needs to start and move across at least 8 feet if you're out at the left tire track before he is in your path, and that's assuming he's stopped in the driveway at the edge of the road. Add to that the number of feet he pulled up into the driveway.

Plus, if you're further out he's more likely to see you because you'll be riding where he's likely to be looking... in the traffic lane.

Lane position has a lot to do with it, as it usually does.

genec

You did good defusing the situation.

But bottom line is, I think you are right.... "Road Rage is in the air." In both the spring and the fall as we near the time changes, the changing length of the days tend to make glare and twilight a problem for drivers... and I think that since drivers are somewhat disconnected from the environment (behind rolled up windows in sound barriered vehicles with tinted glass), they feel something is different, but they just don't quite get with it.

derath

Amazing.

Diane, I know that you and HH don't see anywhere near eye to eye, but to make a blanket statement that lane position has no bearing in this situation is too far to the other side. It is almost like you are so hell bent against HH that you couldn't even admit lane position could help, maybe just a little.

To go off on a tangent, it is a pretty big problem with most of the threads on this forum. Everyone is so polarized to their respective sides that nobody wants to admit the truth is where it usually is, somewhere in the middle.

Now lane positino isn't EVERYTHING, but considering it is safe to do so (residential street with low traffic etc) being further left can make a big difference. I have ridden through plenty of communities to know this is the case.

1. Better chance of a driver noticing you than being next to the curb (you are out where he would expect to see a car)
2. More manuverability. You have more room to go back right or, if it is safe from oncoming cars, veering further left.
3. As HH said, if you are further left, depending on timing you could actually clear the truck before it has cleared the curb.

So maybe lane position isn't everything. But it is not nothing either.

BTW, the OP did a good job handling the situation.

-D

Helmet Head

For the record, I never said nor meant to imply here or anywhere else that lane position is ever EVERYTHING.

The reason I'm so obsessed with the subject, however, is because I believe lane position is a highly underutilized "tool" (if you will) by most cyclists. Diane's inability to recognize the relevance of lane position in the incident described in the OP is fairly typical for most cyclists, I believe, and is precisely why I make such a big deal out of it.

derath

So wait, are you saying that you consider lane position a tool, and by saying so it is one of multiple "tools" you utilize when appropriate. Not a single multipurpose tool that you utilize blindly and without thought for every situation?

Much like my garage is full of tools, and when I have a project to do I don't always just use the hammer when a saw would me more appropriate?

Inquiring minds want to know...

-D

noisebeam

One can fortunately use multiple traffic cycling tools simultaneously.

Al

Helmet Head

I'm impressed! Good catch!

What I was trying to say was that many cyclists don't come close to using lane position to its full useful potential in traffic. Referring to it as a "underutilized tool" was probably not the best way to convey that. Any suggestions?

sbhikes

That's the trouble the plan B is sometimes the waving of the arms or shouting or stopping or whatever, and that's exactly what the OP did that incited the road rage...

And sorry you lane position zealots. You still want to know if he sees you. Just being out in the middle of the lane isn't enough. If you still can't see the person inside you have no idea if he's just going to go for it. I get the same problem on my scooter sometimes.

derath

Holy @(*&$#^ I can understand why people get frustrated on these forums.

Please try to read and comprehend Diane.

1. I am not a lane position zealot. If you think I am you have not read my posts in the past.
2. Nobody here has said being in the middle of the lane is the only thing, It may not be ENOUGH. But it can HELP in some situations.

Here is another way it has helped me in these situations. Often vehicles with tinted windows do not have the rear window tinted. Our minivan came that way. So by moving out further into the lane I have been able to make eye contact with a driver when otherwise I would have been in their side window (the tinted ones) view.

[edit]

And these are situations that illustrate the value of a good horn. If you were in a car you would have been honking at the guy.

[/edit]
If you think what I am saying is some sort of "zealot" mentality then there really isn't any way to have an open dialog with you.


-D

sbhikes

Well, sorry, derath but you assumed I was disagreeing just to disagree with HH. I just don't think lane position solves the problem when you can't get any feedback from someone due to window tinting or whatever. That's all I was saying. HH wants to make it the solution to everything, which is incredibly annoying.

noisebeam

Ummm, the front window is not tinted, so if the cyclist is ahead in the lane they can see no better or worse the driver. The tinting is only an issue as the vehicle is passing and then is in front of the cyclist and that is what caused the OP the later communication/visibility issue.

Also, understanding motorists intentions when they are behind you is far more about signals communicated by vehicle response to driver action that a driver's facial expressions.

Al

derath

Even HH said above that lane position wasn't the end all be all

But I think you are completely wrong to think it cannot help in some situations, such as what I have already described. Obviously it is impossible to say any method is going to work until you are experiencing the issue firsthand. You may think HH throws out lane position as the solution to everything, but I think you are equally at fault in assuming lane position can never be at least a partial solution in some situations.

-D

Brian Ratliff

A new record. A thread derailled by post 4.

Yes, lane position is a tool for cycling in traffic which is, many times, underutilized. However, more helpful, is reading about how a situation was diffused by a friendly comment communicating a simple miscommunication, rather than hostility.

The other day, Tuesday I think, I encountered this same thing. I had to gesture to a car which was looking like he was going to shoot out of a sidestreet right into my path. I gave him the WTF?! hand and rode by. 30 seconds later, he passed and cussed me out (only a highschooler can figure out how to work the "F" word into a phrase such that it is a full half of the words said). Nothing happened, and there was no time for further communication, but it put a mark on my day.

noisebeam

Friendly waves, signalling for drivers to pass me and general clear communiucation of my intents are an equally important 'tool' for cycling in traffic. I use even just the friendly and courteous parts of this 'tool' multiple times every day and it makes cycling in traffic even more enjoyable.

Al

derath

Yes I have found the "kill them with kindness" method works in many aspects of life, including cycling. I know for a fact I haven't given anyone the finger ever, while driving my car or cycling. Plenty of waves in response to a finger. And plenty of waves that got the finger in response.

-D

noisebeam

My friendly waves and signals for motorist to pass come way ahead of any hostilities and have never created them.
One example is when merging and traffic is dense I begin signal early so that some driver will eventually slow and let me in before the critical merge point ends. It may end up being the last driver in a line of many cars (a line I had no idea at the start of my signalling that has a gap at the end that wouldn't require negotiation). If it ends up being the last driver in line I look and them and smile and change my left arm stuck out signal to an energetic waving action to encourage them to pass me, then I slip in behind them. I get this situation fairly frequently in a place a 45mph 3 lane (same direction) road reduces to a 2 lane with the outer lane that I am in disappearing.

The other obvious place is when left biased in lane to allow right turners on red to turn. Some stop behind me and if their turn signal is on I point to the ground next to me and indicate with pointing it is OK to pull up next to me.

Using the slow signal (and sometimes looking back) when a driver is approaching from the rear in a narrow lane and I am just left of right tire track also helps avoid hostilities. They see you more as a human communicating with face/arms vs. 'stubborn road hogging position'. They also don't get into a situation that is ambiguous to them. They know clearly you don't want them to pass in same lane. Ambiguity can foster stress in people and people respond to stress with hostility sometimes.

Al

Bekologist

I've just been trying to play the "village idiot" cyclist lately.

I certainly use a lot of hand signlas to coax drivers into desired scenarios and inform them of my intent. I 'point the way' I'm going and definetly wave the pass-by to truckers.

i've taken to the friendly wave over my back to honks lately but it sometimes morphs into a middle finger..and i fully rage on road ragers. its' probably unproductive. somehow terrorism supporting war for oil gets thrown in there if there's a war of words just to make them feel unpatriotic for driving.

i'm like the jekkyl and hyde village idiot on a bicycle.