Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

What's up with all the joggers in the bike lanes?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

What's up with all the joggers in the bike lanes?

Old 10-07-06, 10:28 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
What's up with all the joggers in the bike lanes?

And should I just run them down?
Blue Order is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 10:38 AM
  #2  
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 9,053
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Well that really depends on how you feel about motorists running you down while you are on the road.
UmneyDurak is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 10:42 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
R-Wells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Honk at um.
R-Wells is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 10:45 AM
  #4  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Runners using BL (or street) facing traffic is totally fine with me. They should step to/on curb if a cyclist is approaching.

Runner face similiar visibility and sidewalk dangers (driveways, congestion) as cyclist would) Being on the road is often much safer. Running opposing traffic does not create the same dangers as cycling into traffic due to lower speeds and ability of runner to stop/change direction rapidly.

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 01:26 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
mlh122's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NW
Posts: 881

Bikes: Trek 4500

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i say more power to em! they are still 1 less car, they are exercising, and if we should collide it's less likely to be fatal. i run into very few joggers when commuting, and when i do they usually go up on the sidewalk, and if they don't see me or just don't move i move into the lane if it's vacant, or i'll jump up on the sidewalk to pass them.
mlh122 is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 02:20 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 548

Bikes: Jamis Coda Sport '06

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Yes. And now we see why cyclists get bad reputations.
Lurker1999 is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 02:32 PM
  #7  
Punk Rock Lives
 
Roughstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Throughout the west in a van, on my bike, and in the forest
Posts: 3,304

Bikes: Long Haul Trucker with BRIFTERS!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
NAh...just tell 'em cycling is a lower impact sport. I say the more people on the roads, the better....conveys the correct iimpression that they are or should be multiple use facilities.

roughstuff
Roughstuff is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 02:44 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
LCI_Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in the hills of Orange, CA
Posts: 1,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Some of them have told me that the sidewalks have more surface and tripping hazards than the road.

I've only had a problem with a jogger one time. It was early in the morning, and he was jogging in the bike lane facing traffic. When he saw me away in the distance, he moved to his right, so I could pass in between him and the curb. I wasn't going to do that, so I moved out into the travel lane so that he could move back towards the curb. To my surprise, he moved further right - into the travel lane! At that point, I figured he wasn't going to get it, so I went back into the bike lane and passed him on the inside.
LCI_Brian is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 03:22 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,277
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I must be confused. Sidewalk for peds. Street for bikes, cars, and motorcycles. Um?
Anyhow, it's their life. Just stay away from me.
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 03:38 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by DataJunkie
Just stay away from me.
Well, that's what I was kind of thinking this morning. I was up earlier than usual, and walking to work, and there were tons of joggers out, on the sidewalks and in the bike lanes. I don't usually see that, because I'm not usually up and out at 8 A.M. on a Saturday...

Anyway, these joggers were not in conflict with any bikers, because no bikers were out on the road. But I was wondering if these joggers had any intentions to yield the bike lane if a biker came along (because some were running with traffic, and couldn't even see a bike coming. Not to mention that they have no right to the bike lane to begin with. I couldn't help but wonder if some of these people haven't yelled at a biker to get on the sidewalk at some point...

But the run them down comment wasn't serious.
Blue Order is offline  
Old 10-07-06, 08:27 PM
  #11  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
Well, that's what I was kind of thinking this morning. I was up earlier than usual, and walking to work, and there were tons of joggers out, on the sidewalks and in the bike lanes. I don't usually see that, because I'm not usually up and out at 8 A.M. on a Saturday...

Anyway, these joggers were not in conflict with any bikers, because no bikers were out on the road. But I was wondering if these joggers had any intentions to yield the bike lane if a biker came along (because some were running with traffic, and couldn't even see a bike coming. Not to mention that they have no right to the bike lane to begin with. I couldn't help but wonder if some of these people haven't yelled at a biker to get on the sidewalk at some point...

But the run them down comment wasn't serious.
I think you are a little to concerned. I used to run for exercise instad of cycle and I very often ran in the road facing traffic (when relatively light). It is far easiet to see oncoming traffic and hop up on the curb.sidewalk than it is to deal with the bad sightlines at every intersection (driveways, etc.). Much of the same problems that cyclists encounter, runners do to. I hate to say it by running in the road facing traffic is like DLP. I grew up in a rural area where there were no sidewalks and roads were narrow. Running in facing traffic far into the lane (and moving over for approaching cars) was the only safe way to run. It is also how everyone walked on the roads too. Helps the drivers see you better and gives them a chance to move a bit left so they don't get to close, even after you have stepped off the pavement onto the narrow shoulder. (sometimes with guardrail or trees or embankment)

Al
noisebeam is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 10:50 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
Not to mention that they have no right to the bike lane to begin with.
I cannot agree with your statement. I feel, as a cyclist, I have every right to ride in the street - bike lane or no bike lane. I also feel that a pedestrian has the right to run in the street.

None of us have the right to impede traffic (of any kind) - cars don't have a right to impede traffic, either.

IMHO, "Share the Road" signs mean just that - everybody shares.

I also tend to treat the least powerful mode of transportation as though it has the right of way - that could be me in some situations, others in another situation depending upon who is walking/running/driving/cycling, etc.

Caruso
Carusoswi is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 11:01 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bicycle advocates that say runners shouldn't be in the bike lane are the biggest hyprocrates ever. Think of what you're saying; you're acting just like another mad motorist saying "Get the hell outta my lane!"
gwhunt23 is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 12:10 PM
  #14  
Calamari to go
 
cc_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 3,113

Bikes: Trek 750

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I cannot agree with your statement. I feel, as a cyclist, I have every right to ride in the street - bike lane or no bike lane. I also feel that a pedestrian has the right to run in the street.
May not be true everywhere, but here it is illegal to run or walk in the street if there is a sidewalk available. And there are sidewalks almost everywhere.

I don't have a big problem with runners in the bike lane, but I seldom have a runner I'm passing yield to my bike. They usually hold the middle and force me to swerve. And they often run with traffic instead of against. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate.
cc_rider is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 12:20 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brossard (Montreal), QC, Canada
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cc_rider
but I seldom have a runner I'm passing yield to my bike. They usually hold the middle and force me to swerve. And they often run with traffic instead of against. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate.
I seldom see bike yield to my car even when I honk like mad. They usually hole the middle of the line instead of the ridding in the gutter like they should and force me to swerve almost in the next lane. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate since they usually flip me a couple of birds when I pass jk
DanPT is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 01:05 PM
  #16  
BF's Level 12 Wizard
 
SingingSabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secret mobile lair
Posts: 1,425

Bikes: Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LCI_Brian
Some of them have told me that the sidewalks have more surface and tripping hazards than the road.
I think we all know how that is...

When I ran (did it sporadically and occasionally years ago) I stuck to the roads. They're easier on your joints, less likely to trip over things than on the sidewalks, and you're more visible to approaching traffic (right hook, anyone?).

I don't mind joggers as long as they're heading towards me. When they're on the wrong (right side) side of the road, then I find it gets dicey.
__________________
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Originally Posted by Bklyn
Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.
SingingSabre is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 02:44 PM
  #17  
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360

Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
And should I just run them down?
Nooo, you might hurt your bike. Do the right thing, patiently explain to them that they would be much safer if they took the traffic lane and practiced 'Pop goes the Jogger' - aka DLLP.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 03:41 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brossard (Montreal), QC, Canada
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Runner force me to slow down and pass them at safe distance. Oh no! it really mess up my average speed on my cyclocomputer. It's even worst when It's not safe to pass I have to wait for a few seconds I rather accelerate and do a friendly bump so they get the message /sarcastic
DanPT is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 05:14 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 111

Bikes: Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I cannot agree with your statement. I feel, as a cyclist, I have every right to ride in the street - bike lane or no bike lane. I also feel that a pedestrian has the right to run in the street.

None of us have the right to impede traffic (of any kind) - cars don't have a right to impede traffic, either.

IMHO, "Share the Road" signs mean just that - everybody shares.

Caruso
That is your opinion, but it is not what traffic law says.

"Share the Road" does not mean everybody shares the same space on the road and therefore can drive, walk or park whereever they like. For example, bus lanes are reserved for buses and you cannot bike or walk on a bus lane. Similarly, you as a motorist or cyclist cannot "share" the bus stop with transit buses and stop your car or bicycle in front of a bus stop.

A bicycle lane is a reserved lane for bicycles and is NOT necessarily located far right to the road. Here in Ottawa, it can be far left to the road, or in between a bus lane and a regular lane, or between two traffic lanes, or any configurations thereof. Because bike lanes are designed to be integrated with other traffic lanes, jogging on the bike lane is extremely dangerous and joggers can be ticketed for jay walking by police.

NOTE: in the winter time, some people do run on the roads (because of snow on the sidewalks) which is still illegal. Usually homeowners are responsible for clearing snow and ice for the portion of side walk in front of his house - otherwise he can be held liable if someone trips.

Where pedestrains can share a bike lane with cyclists, it is usually clearly marked as a multi-use lane.
Such a bike path is a mixed use path and is away from regular road traffic. Here, pedestrians, roller skaters, joggers, cyclists, wheelchairs, baby strollers, etc., can share the path together.

Last edited by yuhoo; 10-08-06 at 05:37 PM.
yuhoo is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 05:25 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 111

Bikes: Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I also tend to treat the least powerful mode of transportation as though it has the right of way - that could be me in some situations, others in another situation depending upon who is walking/running/driving/cycling, etc.

Caruso
You should brush up your knowledge of traffic law on who has the right of way. It is NOT the least powerful mode of transportation who has the right of way, otherwise you may not arrive your destination in one piece.

For example, when a human powered bicycle and a 300 horsepower sports car both come to a four way stop sign at the same time, the right of way is not the "least powerful mode of transportation".
yuhoo is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 05:27 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by chipcom
Nooo, you might hurt your bike. Do the right thing, patiently explain to them that they would be much safer if they took the traffic lane and practiced 'Pop goes the Jogger' - aka DLLP.
At last, somebody who can think clearly! These joggers are clearly bicycular joggers, inspired by bicycular jogging advoacte John Collander. Rather than risk death on the sidewalk due to the inadvertent drift of bicycles from the bike lane onto the sidewalk, they choose to jog in the bike lane, where there is a greater chance that they will first get and then hold the attention of bicyclists.This method reduces the likelihood of inadvertent drift due to inattentional blindness, because what is irrelevant to the bicyclist-- for example, a jogger on the sidewalk-- won't be seen by the bicyclist, and when that bicyclist takes the inevitable sex break, the bicycle may drift onto the sidewalk, thereby killing the jogger. Logic and reason tell us that the solution to this problem is for the jogger to take the bike lane long enough to get and then hold the attention of the bicyclist. The main impediment to getting joggers to abandon the sidewalks and run with the other traffic is overcoming the jogger-inferiority complex that pervades jogging today.

It's a thankless task, but if one jogger's life can be saved because of bicycular jogging, it will have been worth it.








Last edited by Blue Order; 10-08-06 at 05:42 PM.
Blue Order is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 05:46 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,138

Bikes: 2 many

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times in 169 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Order
I think you've solved the mystery! These joggers are clearly bicycular joggers, inspired by bicycular jogging advoacte John Collander. Rather than risk death on the sidewalk due to the inadvertent drift of bicycles from the bike lane onto the sidewalk, they choose to jog in the bike lane, where there is a greater chance that they will first get and then hold the attention of bicyclists.This method reduces the likelihood of inadvertent drift due to inattentional blindness, because what is irrelevant to the bicyclist-- for example, a jogger on the sidewalk-- won't be seen by the bicyclist, and when that bicyclist takes the inevitable sex break, the bicycle may drift onto the sidewalk, thereby killing the jogger. Logic and reason tell us that the solution to this problem is for the jogger to take the bike lane long enough to get and then hold the attention of the bicyclist. The main impediment to getting joggers to abandon the sidewalks and run with the other traffic is overcoming the jogger-inferiority complex that pervades jogging today.

It's a thankless task, but if one jogger's life can be saved because of bicycular jogging, it will have been worth it.

20 bonus points priceless!

What's up with all the people in lawn chairs on the sidewalk? Pedicular sitting?
2manybikes is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 05:54 PM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 111

Bikes: Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gwhunt23
Bicycle advocates that say runners shouldn't be in the bike lane are the biggest hyprocrates ever. Think of what you're saying; you're acting just like another mad motorist saying "Get the hell outta my lane!"
Yes, according to the law, motorists are supposed to "stay away from my lane", but I have the right to your lane (but not the right to other reserved lanes such as bus lanes, transit ways, taxi lanes, LRT rails, etc.). Here in Ottawa, transit buses and taxicabs can stop in my lanes only to load and unload passengers, otherwise, they must move out of the way.

Pedestrains, together with other personal mobile devices such as wheelchairs, roller skates, baby strollers, etc., do not have the right to any traffic lanes. If there is no sidewalk, use the shoulder. Otherwise, it is called jaywalking and can be ticketed. And it will be really messy for insurance purposes if they get injured.
yuhoo is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 06:01 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
R-Wells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2manybikes
20 bonus points priceless!

What's up with all the people in lawn chairs on the sidewalk? Pedicular sitting?

Pedicular sitting

This brings to mind sbhikes and her traveling beach chair.
R-Wells is offline  
Old 10-08-06, 07:02 PM
  #25  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by cc_rider
May not be true everywhere, but here it is illegal to run or walk in the street if there is a sidewalk available. And there are sidewalks almost everywhere.

I don't have a big problem with runners in the bike lane, but I seldom have a runner I'm passing yield to my bike. They usually hold the middle and force me to swerve. And they often run with traffic instead of against. I just write them off as rude and inconsiderate.
Most of my running was done on relatively quiet residential streets and when traffic is very low (a car every few minutes at most) I'd run very far into the lane, not center, but close. Main reason was this was a residential area and the biggest danger were drivers backing out of their driveways without looking down the sidewalk. Center of the lane gave me sightlines to see them and for them to sometimes see me, but most important, a few extra feet for me to react to them pulling out of their driveway. Same applied at side streets where most drivers don't stop at intersections in quiet residential areas.
Most of these residential streets did not have a bike lane, but some did.
As to stepping aside for cyclist, as I was facing traffic and could see well down the road if a car was not coming from behind cyclist, I moved toward curb, but stayed on the road or the bikelane. These were situations where it was all to easy for the cyclist to merge a bit out of the BL and pass me. I would never call it forcing the cyclist to swerve.
On busier roads I didn't run in the road/BL so it was never an issue.
Keep in mind all this is runnng facing oncoming traffic. Running on street with back to traffic is stupid.
Al
noisebeam is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.