linux_author

- dunno if this linky has been posted before, but i thought the '10 common scenarios' were interesting...

How Not to Get Hit by Cars

- comments?

genec

Or just ride on isolated trails...

closetbiker

It's a great site and has just about all the info any cyclist could want on how to, "be safe".

sbhikes

The site has good advice. And not overbearing like some advice can be.

AndrewP

Good tips - vehicular cycling.

HiYoSilver

It's been linked many times, but one more does NOT hurt. It has nice clean illustrations of what are risky positions.

DCCommuter

If I had to summarize the wisdom of those tips in one phrase it would be "ride further left." Sure, there's other stuff in there, but that's the only idea there that's non-obvious.

It's actually very much a counter-intuitive idea, and it's something a very slim minority of the population is aware of. In fact, I would say that only a slim minority of cyclists have any inkling. A major challenge of advocacy is getting that idea out, both to cyclists, but particularly to non-cyclists.

I get so annoyed when I read "safety tips" for cyclists that boil down to stay out of the way of cars.

joejack951

I was skimming through a copy of Bicycling magazine at a friend's house and they were sharing their "tips" for commuting cyclists. They basically boiled down to just that, stay as far right as possible so that cars can get by. I really should have written them a letter about it because it really irked me but I never did. It can be incredibly difficult to try to explain the ride-left principle to non-riders and seeing the opposite in print makes it that much harder.

Allan Dunlop

Here are the items I link on my personal site: https://www.cyclingsolutions.ca/cyclingskills/

I've got the 'How not to' site linked on there--great stuff. Another good one you'll find is the Bike Sense manual, something that was produced here in Victoria, BC, based on similar manuals around North America. Although there are a few items I'm working to see changed, it's a great resource.

Yes, 'stay out of the way of cars' is one of the worst pieces of advice that can be given to a cyclist. I agree with what DCCommuter says. Taking our rightful place on the road takes some getting used to, but it makes all the difference. Sometimes I can give drivers a little more room (while keeping a close eye out on the space they give me).

I find that the only times I run into encroachment is when I'm too lenient in letting motorists by in tighter area. Once one person shows they're not gonna play nice in the sandbox, I shoulder-check, signal, shoulder chack again and move further left. Then i wave to the person who let me in and go on my way. Works great.

closetbiker

Good to see you in this group Allan. You've done a lot of good work for cycling advocacy here in BC, and I'm sure members here will benefit from your posts to come.

DCCommuter

Exactly my experience. If I'm getting buzzed, there's no one to blame but me, I'm too far right.

chipcom 

I've found that, while one may get buzzed more hugging the gutter, from there, no matter what your position in the lane, the amount of buzzing stays pretty much constant. Some drivers just always pass too close, from the cyclists standpoint, but not necessarily from their standpoint. You see the same people when you are driving, they tailgate, pass within inches of your fender or cut in front of you with mere inches to spare.

Ironically, while we always advocate riding predictably, you may get more space by the perception that you are not predictable. We all do it driving, if we see someone driving erratically, we give them a lot of space when we pass, or we just drop way back and wait for a safe opportunity. It's possible that the reason we get more space when out further in the lane is because being out there makes us unpredictable to drivers. 'What is that bicycle doing riding way out there, does he know what he is doing? I better give him a wide berth.' Any thoughts?

LCI_Brian

I'd have to disagree based on my experiences. Generally I experience fewer close passes when further out in the lane.

If you're considering "buzzing" as a deliberate close pass to send a "message" to the cyclist, then maybe I could agree. But I've found that being further out in the lane reduces the number of passes where the motorist will partially straddle the adjacent lane, rather than make the "effort" to change lanes. In my area I am more concerned about these types of passes. These motorists will also pass cyclists closely, but that's more out of laziness.

digger

I do agree that for the majority of the population they'll give you a wide berth, others will think "typical crazy cyclist, all over the road" which is a belief we should not try to instill and still others, who go through life angry, will want to "teach you a lesson".

Being a firm believer in Murphys Law, when you are riding further left that's when an angry person will show up.

The non-cycling community, from my experience here at work, is unaware of why we would ride left, after all the law states "as far to the right as possible." Of course, we know this is AS PRACTICABLE, but the belief is AS POSSIBLE. If you move left, "you're a typical unpredictable cyclist who thinks he/she can do whatever they want on a bicycle". MY thoughts are, educate these people.....but how to get the message out, other than talking to them as you come accross them.

Now, this would obviously not work on a busy road, to a motorist, you'd seem to be weaving, BUT:
what I do is ride left, in the right wheel track of autos, then when I see a car behind me (I use a mirror) I move right (but not hug the edge).
My belief is this does several things:
1) maybe gives them a sense of "ok this person is unpredictable, so I should give him a wide berth"
2) being in the middle or right wheel track of the road puts me in direct line of their sight, they have a better chance of seeing me and the movement to the right helps attract their eye to my presence.
3) they know that I see or hear them and I am being courteous and sharing the road (a glance over the shoulder helps too), hence perhaps it will offset the "crazy cyclist" attitude a bit, and they would pass safetly. Quite often I see a wave when they pass.
4) perhaps for those angry people, it will...soften them a bit when they see me move over and not need to think that I need a lesson.

Of course, on a busy road, this becomes less do-able. Hence, another set of cycling skills must be used, and of course this depends on the road dynamics.

In short, sure I agree with you, but to a certain point.

Digger

digger

Yeah ok, I can see that point. Being further left will make them move over more in the other lane. I can see that if there is approaching traffic, and you are further left, hence unpassable, they will wait until the opposite lane is clear and it's safe to pass.

MY method of moving over when I see them will allow them to TRY and pass and maybe a little too close. Hmmmm, something to think about.....my worry is the angry ones, who might try it anyway.

thdave

I've read similar things before, but this is the best compilation of cyclists advise I've seen. It is still odd to me that I'm more worried about a driver hitting me from behind than anything else, yet that is not the biggest danger facing cyclists.

I guess it is because those coming up behind me are the ones than honk the most and I get the impression some are really offended I'm slowing them down. I am more fearful then than at intersections--where I feel I pretty safe. Even though I sometimes pass cars on the right when approaching intersections, I make eye contact with the last driver and try to start before they do, so they see me. Anyhow, if they try to cross in front of me, I can stop immediately and I can see them.

I will get a mirror. Good points of interest for the mirror. I bet I'd really use the thing.

Kayakado

This doesn't work all the time. I was almost run over by nuts driving on the bike trail a number of times. Once was when they were trying to find a way to beat a train that had already blocked the regular road. Second were what I think were drug dealers driving down and meeting on secluded areas of the trail for deals. Third was two men in a pickup truck driving on the trail who tired to block my path and stop me, for what I don't know but am sure it was not good.

patc

I have been experimenting lately with lane position. As far as I can tell, locally:

- riding too far right encourages close passing (no surprise)
- riding far enough left that a driver must adjust speed and/or position to pass but does NOT need to change lanes most often gives me the best clearance
- riding far enough left that a driver would need to change lanes or straddle the line to pass results in a close shave - the drivers seem to avoid lane changes no matter what
- taking the lane is a mixed bag - they will do a lane change (or partial change to pass) when possible, but often there is too much other traffic for this to be practical so I just slow down traffic (or the rest of traffic, if you want to be pedantic).

closetbiker

Many posters here think the site is a good one. Surely everyone can't agree with everything, so I was wondering (not to start anything here, I've pretty much given up the debate - just getting a feel one the inclusion of this particular point - I still am interested in over all impressions on the subject) if there is the same approval for the comments on the section (located on the right side-bar) entitled, "Why you don't see "wear a helmet" advice plastered all over this site Everybody asks about this one, so here's the answer."

Anyone read it? Does it have a place with the other information? Is it a reasonable stance?

banerjek

My experiences with lane positioning is that the optimum place to be depends on a number of factors, but that riding too far right definitely gets you buzzed.

I have found that you can significantly increase clearances by acting a little unpredictable. If the next car is sufficiently far back, sometimes I'll suddenly cut over 12-18" to the left and immediately return to my position (as if I were dodging debris). You don't want to use this trick constantly, but it does help on all kinds of roads.

pricklycommute

Sometimes I will actually move further left when I see a car coming in my mirror, and then just as the car passes me, I move that extra bit back over to the right. This definitely reduces buzzing as you are further to the right of the car when it passes than the driver actually plans for.

Roody

OK here's a puzzler. Maybe sombody can tell me if I was doing something wrong.

Just a few minutes ago, a car passed me on the right, in an unoccupied parking lane. He was on my "blind side" and this sems dangerous. I thought this was wrong of him, especially since he had plenty of room to pass me on the left without even leaving his lane. When I told him he should pass people on the left instead of the right, he just looked confused and stammered something I couldn't understand. Now I'm wondering if I di something wrong myself.

I certainly agree with all the advice to stay further left, and it works for me 999 times out of 1000. However...

DCCommuter

Particularly in urban settings, I ride with the assumption that anywhere there is enough space for a car it will get taken, and I try to position myself to leave space so cars will go where I want them to. I feel vulnerable when there is space on my right, as it's an invitation to motorists to act unpredictably. If there is enough daylight on my right for a long enough distance for someone to contemplate passing, I will move right, even if it is a parking lane.

Roody

I was trying to give the cars (a string of 4 behind me) a break by moving slightly into the unoccupied parking lane. I knew I'd want to take the lane again before we reached the intersection. Maybe I should have moved farther to the right? Or maybe not moved right at all?

Sir-bikes-alot

The one thing I disagree with in that article is the use of mirrors. I think it's rediculous to change the way you ride based on how a car looks as it's coming up behind you. It actually says to always watch your mirror and if a car is about to hit you from behind, jump off onto the sidewalk...silly!
On the subject of lane placement, I've often found i get more clearance from cars if i am only a little out in the lane, when you go all the way out they just get pissed off. Most drivers want to do the right thing and give you lots of room, but many just hate it when you attempt to force them not to pass. Impossible because eventually they'll get around and if they're now pissed they'll pass close and fast.
Also, i avoid going in a perfectly straight line, i force myself to constantly weave about 10 inches side to side erattically so that drivers are a little nervous. When i ride perfectly straight, cars get the idea they can pass very close.