View Poll Results: Would you agree to helmet use in automobiles?
Own automobile, Always cycle with helmet, and agree
9
6.92%
Own automobile, Always cycle with helmet, but disagree
80
61.54%
Own automobile, Sometimes cycle with helmet, and agree
3
2.31%
Own automobile, Sometimes cycle with helmet, but disagree
15
11.54%
Don't own automobile, Always cycle with helmet, and agree
5
3.85%
Don't own automobile, Always cycle with helmet, but disagree
14
10.77%
Don't own automobile, Sometimes cycle with helmet, and agree
1
0.77%
Don't own automobile, Sometimes cycle with helmet, but disagree
3
2.31%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll
As a helmet wearing cyclist do you also support helmet use in cars?
08-21-07, 07:55 PM
#51
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08-21-07, 07:57 PM
#52
HomeBrew Master!
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I wear my helmet when I ride any of my bicycles. Other than my loved ones, I don't give a flying &^$%# if anyone else does. I wear my helmet when I ride my motorcycle. Again, other than my loved ones I don't give a rat's %^$ if anyone else does.
It's their business and they should have the pleasure of paying higher insurance premiums for the freedom of minding their own affairs.
It's their business and they should have the pleasure of paying higher insurance premiums for the freedom of minding their own affairs.
08-21-07, 08:01 PM
#53
Sumanitu taka owaci
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Ad hominem: "...replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking...the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."
Wikipedia (the source of all wisdom and knowlege...
)
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08-21-07, 08:03 PM
#54
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I wear my helmet when I ride any of my bicycles. Other than my loved ones, I don't give a flying &^$%# if anyone else does. I wear my helmet when I ride my motorcycle. Again, other than my loved ones I don't give a rat's %^$ if anyone else does.
It's their business and they should have the pleasure of paying higher insurance premiums for the freedom of minding their own affairs.
It's their business and they should have the pleasure of paying higher insurance premiums for the freedom of minding their own affairs.
+1.
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08-21-07, 08:08 PM
#55
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Go back and understand, "ad hominem." This is a perfect illustration of it.
I'm finished with your nonsense.
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08-21-07, 08:20 PM
#56
meandering nomad
I don't have a car and I don't wear a helmet. sure let them wear them if they wan't to. No nanny state BS.
08-21-07, 08:28 PM
#57
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I understand it perfectly well and yes, you are a proven hypocrite. Apparently the truth hurts.
I understand it just as I understand that truthfully answering the question that I posed would expose the silliness of your assumption, hence your iunwillingness to reply.
I understand it just as I understand that truthfully answering the question that I posed would expose the silliness of your assumption, hence your iunwillingness to reply.
Wait, no I'm not...
...yes, I am...
No...
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08-21-07, 08:48 PM
#58
Senior Member
it was dinner (partly, the other part was providing incentive to look into something to try to understand it better).
I'm finished eating now, but still too busy to spoon feed something to someone who doesn't want to know the answer anyway
I'm finished eating now, but still too busy to spoon feed something to someone who doesn't want to know the answer anyway
08-21-07, 08:52 PM
#59
Senior Member
08-21-07, 09:37 PM
#60
Senior Member
what an assumption (or a downright lie if OH306 did a simple search to find the many posts I've made saying just how many times I have) or once again, poor quips from a poor argument at someone elses expense to make oneself look good (but never does)
08-21-07, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tallard
So what's the difference between government pooling your health risk vs an Insurance Company pooling your health risk? So I must assume by your post that motorists receiving head injuries is part of the cost you're willing to bear.
The difference between government taxing me and the insurance companies charging me, is that I VOLUNTARILY choose the insurance company. The government MANDATES I pay.
08-21-07, 09:55 PM
#63
Senior Member
but MVAs produce anywhere from about 36% to 50% of traumatic head injury admissions to hospitals while cyclists account for about 2% (heck, victims of assault make up about 9% of head injury hospital admissions)
In my province commuter cyclists make up 2% of traffic but all (as in the other 95% of people on bikes - plus the 5% of commuter cyclists -) cyclists are involved in only 1% of traffic collisions
In my province commuter cyclists make up 2% of traffic but all (as in the other 95% of people on bikes - plus the 5% of commuter cyclists -) cyclists are involved in only 1% of traffic collisions
Last edited by closetbiker; 08-22-07 at 07:51 AM.
08-21-07, 10:09 PM
#64
Senior Member
Check out this PDF file as analysis by DL Robinson about head injuries and helmets in Australia and New Zealand
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf
and get a copy of Journal of Products Liability 1988, vol 11, pp. 307-317 for the conclusions of a survey of 15 years and 8 million cases of American cyclist injury/fatality incidents by G.B Rodgers finding that there is no evidence that hard shell helmets have reduced the head injury and fatality rates. The most surprising finding is that the bicycle-related fatality rate is positively and significantly correlated with increased helmet use.
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf
and get a copy of Journal of Products Liability 1988, vol 11, pp. 307-317 for the conclusions of a survey of 15 years and 8 million cases of American cyclist injury/fatality incidents by G.B Rodgers finding that there is no evidence that hard shell helmets have reduced the head injury and fatality rates. The most surprising finding is that the bicycle-related fatality rate is positively and significantly correlated with increased helmet use.
08-22-07, 01:49 AM
#65
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08-22-07, 08:23 AM
#66
Senior Member
Check out this PDF file as analysis by DL Robinson about head injuries and helmets in Australia and New Zealand
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf
and get a copy of Journal of Products Liability 1988, vol 11, pp. 307-317 for the conclusions of a survey of 15 years and 8 million cases of American cyclist injury/fatality incidents by G.B Rodgers finding that there is no evidence that hard shell helmets have reduced the head injury and fatality rates. The most surprising finding is that the bicycle-related fatality rate is positively and significantly correlated with increased helmet use.
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf
and get a copy of Journal of Products Liability 1988, vol 11, pp. 307-317 for the conclusions of a survey of 15 years and 8 million cases of American cyclist injury/fatality incidents by G.B Rodgers finding that there is no evidence that hard shell helmets have reduced the head injury and fatality rates. The most surprising finding is that the bicycle-related fatality rate is positively and significantly correlated with increased helmet use.
What we are debating is, given any crash, would wearing a helmet decrease the instance of head injury. Really, the data that would be instructive is to look at bicycle crashes where the cyclist hits his head and and then see if there is a statistical difference in head injuries between those wearing helmets and those not wearing helmets.
There are crashes that are so great that wearing a helmet will not prevent a head injury (although I think it is beyond argument that a helmet lessens the head injury), but what we need to look at are the non-catastrophic accidents, where the impact to the head is an impact the helmet is designed to protect against, and then look at similar accidents to see if those not wearing helmets suffer greater injuries than those wearing helmets.
Without having any studies to back my position, I don't see how anyone can argue that if you bonk your head on the pavement while not wearing a helmet, you are not going to suffer any more serious injuries than someone who bonks his head just as hard off the pavement, but is wearing a helmet.
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Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
08-22-07, 09:07 AM
#67
Senior Member
you can check out ICBC.com go to library, research and traffic collision reports.
In those reports is information that shows head injuries to helmeted cyclists and head injuries to non-helmeted cyclists and the differences between them.
There is about less than a 10% difference between the 2
A big problem is the defining factor of what rates as an injury (let alone the severity of the injury). A bloody nose, scraped chin or chipped tooth rates as a head injury and is counted.
and actually, I think those studies do analyze the instance of head injuries in similar bicycle crashes, comparing helmet weareres to non helmet wearers.
In those reports is information that shows head injuries to helmeted cyclists and head injuries to non-helmeted cyclists and the differences between them.
There is about less than a 10% difference between the 2
A big problem is the defining factor of what rates as an injury (let alone the severity of the injury). A bloody nose, scraped chin or chipped tooth rates as a head injury and is counted.
and actually, I think those studies do analyze the instance of head injuries in similar bicycle crashes, comparing helmet weareres to non helmet wearers.
Last edited by closetbiker; 08-22-07 at 09:31 AM.
08-22-07, 01:47 PM
#68
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So do like I did and really be finished with his nonsense; put him on your ignore list. Trust me, you won't be missing anything valuable.
08-22-07, 04:33 PM
#69
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My military experience has convinced me of the value of helmets in various circumstances. I don't sleep in one though on the off chance I might fall out of bed. I also am of the opinion that helmets offer limited protection when collisions are of high velocity or when the mass involved is great. As an adult in this jurisdiction, I am under no legal obligation to wear one. I wear a helmet while cycling because my personal assessment of the risk to me warrants wearing one. I have no quarrel with anyone whose risk assessment differs from mine.
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08-22-07, 04:50 PM
#70
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My military experience has convinced me of the value of helmets in various circumstances. I don't sleep in one though on the off chance I might fall out of bed. I also am of the opinion that helmets offer limited protection when collisions are of high velocity or when the mass involved is great. As an adult in this jurisdiction, I am under no legal obligation to wear one. I wear a helmet while cycling because my personal assessment of the risk to me warrants wearing one. I have no quarrel with anyone whose risk assessment differs from mine.
08-22-07, 09:09 PM
#74
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You can choose not to have health insurance.
Of course, that would be a seriously bad choice.
I guess insurance companies are not what we would call, "Nannies." They are more like businessmen. When it comes to your health, it's purely a business transaction.
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Last edited by LittleBigMan; 08-23-07 at 03:37 PM.
08-22-07, 10:39 PM
#75
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I'm amazed at how often some bike riders hit their heads...
Anyway, I mostly just wanted to point out that you guys are, yet again, at each other's throats. Nice place you've got here. LMAO.
Last edited by Six jours; 08-22-07 at 10:48 PM.