Helmet Head

No, I'm not saying that at all.

If I'm in a 10' lane 4' from the left stripe, then I have 6' to my right.
If the lane widens to 20' then it's probably safe and reasonable to move aside, to say 10-12' from the left stripe, when there is reason to do so (i.e., the presence of faster same direction traffic, or the need to turn right).

The whole point about thinking of your position relative to the left edge of the lane rather than the right edge is to more aware of when you are moving laterally within the lane relative to other vehicular traffic.
If your position is based on maintaining a safe distance from the right edge, then you are prone to moving laterally (relative to the left stripe and other traffic) while it feels to you like you're maintaining a steady course (relative to the right side). See my diagram a few posts back.

Helmet Head

At any given point whether you are tracking your lateral position relative to the left stripe or the right edge doesn't matter (in a 10' lane, 6' from the left = 4' from the right; it makes no difference).

Which side you're tracking your position from only matters when lane width changes (and by "lane width" I mean "width of effective usable space within the lane").

So the whole point of tracking against the lane line is to be part of the normal traffic flow, but, more precisely, it's to maintain your position relative to other traffic flow effectively, which is especially important when you're in a sharing position in a wide lane and approaching a narrowing situation.

Bekologist

head, I find your insistence repulsive.

you and I and the rest of the forum knows your tecnhique of riding left biased, and moving out of the way when you find it safe to do so, does NOT apply to narrow lanes.

we also know it doesn't work when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested, and you are in a shareable lane. your entire fear-based safety tecnhique of the 'powerweave' falls completely apart once traffic becomes steady or heavy in shareable lanes.

explain to the forum your lane position when a lane is wide enough to share and traffic is steady.

explain where you position yourself, and how, in a shareable lane, when traffic is steady. assume very short breaks in traffic, not significant in gap for you to move left.

What does head do then??? how does he ride?

GeoLes

To hug the road edge is to not only invite being buzzed, but also, debris is strewn on some road edges, thown there from passing cars. It's just not the best place to ride your bike. When on a narrow section of road (Usually I encounter them in relatively short sections of road), I signal my intent, take the lane, riding through as quickly and efficiently as I can, all the while signalling with my hands (arm extended downward with palms facing the ground). This tells motorist to give me a moment to get out of the way. A jerk will ignore my signal, but I have no control over him/her anyway. A reasonalble man/woman would cut me a break. Once through the narrow section, smile and wave. If the roadway is too long, narrow and busy, I would find another route.

Bekologist

THAT is complete nonsense, head, and you and I and the rest of the forum knows it.

riding in a shared lane, in the sharing position, means you are riding far enough right to allow other traffic to pass. taking a safe lane position to the right, NOT using the left lane stripe to 'track'.

what inflated, unrealistic blather. worthless hyperbole.

willawry'd

i can't believe anyone would agree with it.

noisebeam

When there is other traffic present and 'desiring' to pass in same lane and no other potential or actual hazard there is nothing wrong with moving right in to share the lane if it is wide enough. Then move back to the default position when there is no other immediate traffic using the same lane.

Al

Bekologist

noisebeam - al -

when a rider IS in the 'sharing' position in a wide lane, they ARE ALREADY RIDING TO THE RIGHT IN A SAFE LANE POSITION. it is emphatically NOT using the left lane stripe to track ones' road position.

and when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested in a wide lane, claims of using the left lane stripe is worthless forum semantics that do not echo on the road realities of bicycling.

worthless hyperbole from helemt head and the 'move right' bliviots.

Helmet Head

I don't know why you want to bring up wide lane positioning in a thread about narrow lanes, but if there is shareable width in a lane (mean both bike and car can fit in the lane safely side-by-side, with at least 3' between them and this not forcing the cyclist to be too close to the curb, car doors or other hazards) with steady same direction faster traffic, and it is safe and reasonable to use the sharing/secondary position, then I use it, of course. Generally, that means I'm riding about 3' to the right of the overtaking traffic.

But I hardly ever find myself in situations for significantly long periods of time without any significantly long gaps in same direction traffic, especially in urban and suburban environments where traffic signals constantly break things up. And as soon as there is a gap of any significant length, I look back (to make sure it's clear) and move back to my primary "centerish" (between the left and right tire tracks/grooves) position. This isn't rocket science, Beck. It's straight out of John Franklin's book, Cyclecraft. Do you guys carry it or any other book on traffic cycling in your shop?

Helmet Head

Your misunderstanding of it is what is complete nonsense.

Yes, precisely.

But here's my point. If you're positioning yourself relative to the right edge, then you might easily think you're just maintaining course as you stay positioned about the same distance to the curb, oblivious to the fact that the lane is narrowing and that you are effectively moving into the right-of-way of overtaking traffic.

I think you're still not getting it. Did you look at my diagram? Here's another one that even more subtle because it's the left side that appears to be moving in to cause the narrowing.

WideToNarrow2.gif

Do you recognize that relative to normal traffic flow in that lane that the curb-tracking cyclist (green) is moving into the right-of-way of the overtaking vehicle (purple), and needs to yield to it? That most cyclists don't understand this is the cause of much of the cyclist/motorist conflict out there.

LittleBigMan

Go ride your bike. It will clear your head.



(Geez, Bek, all this "You're lying..." "..no, you're lying!" is such chidlish nonsense...)

Bekologist

little big man, you can claim all drivers respect bicyclists and fully change lanes to pass bicyclists in Atlanta, and I call your bluff. there's nothing 'childish' about it except your insistence in contrived utopian bicycling conditions in Atlanta.

And HH,
overtaking traffic DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY. Additionally, when you are IN a sharing position, a bicyclist does NOT track according to the left edge of the lane.

Head, you even agree with my disputing your claim of using the left lane stripe.... where I state "riding in a shared lane, in the sharing position, means you are riding far enough right to allow other traffic to pass. taking a safe lane position to the right, NOT using the left lane stripe to 'track'."

you agree "precisely" with my clarification of your misleading the forum with your fallacy.



In any conditions where traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested, along wide, shareable lanes, your powerweave technique does not apply.

i'll repeat:

when traffic is moderately steady, heavy, or congested in a wide lane, claims of using the left lane stripe is worthless forum semantics that do not echo on the road realities of bicycling.

worthless hyperbole from helemt head and the 'move right' bliviots.

LittleBigMan

You can huff and puff all you want, buy you don't ride on my route. You don't have a clue.

Well, I had a really great ride home today, no honks, no close passes (an awful lot of frustrating drivers who were afraid to pass me, had to wave them on energetically.) Every time I signalled to move over, someone let me merge.

The more Mr. Beck disbelieves me, the more I'm glad I ride in Atlanta. (The really funny thing is, I don't have anything against Portland. I'm stumped why Beck is so eager to get everyone to think I'm a liar. I guess old prejudices die hard...)

Bekologist

dude, get a grip. Puget Sound is not anywhere near Portland.

regardless, I refuse to believe your claims the drivers in Atlanta are all politeness and respect.

what a stretch. let's just agree that I disagree with your assertions all drivers in atlanta, without exception, pass bicyclists by moving totally into the other lane....oh that's right, you ride a trike

and none of that has anything to do with Helemt Head's fallacies he purports in this thread about lane sharing and how he determines a lane position while sharing lanes.

LittleBigMan

I don't have anything against Pugetopolis, either.

I never said that drivers in Atlanta are all politeness and respect. You made that up.

I said drivers almost always treat me respectfully, often timidly, when I'm riding my bike. I think you're the one who's lost his grip, because you refuse to interperet written English appropriately.

I also never said that "all drivers in Atlanta, without exception, pass bicyclists by moving totally into the other lane." Again, that's a dream you had.

I said that when I ride in the center of the lane (which is not all the time, but under certain circumstances,) drivers pass in the other lane, and I said that they sometimes pass entirely in the other lane when I'm in the right tire track.

I hope this is the last time I have to correct your poor quoting ability. It seems to be based on what you thought I said, not on what I actually said.

But as for your refusing to believe me, that's something I won't argue with. It seems to be something you desperately need to do.

Bekologist

now its "sometimes" drivers pass politely instead of the lazy pass?

willawry'd

lazy pass does not always = impolite.

LittleBigMan

Dam, buzz, you have a serious reading prob.

I didn't say, "sometimes drivers pass politely." I said, "sometimes [drivers] pass entirely in the other lane when I'm in the right tire track."

I also said, "drivers almost always treat me respectfully, often timidly, when I'm riding my bike."

Maybe you should go back to school before I redress any more of your posts.

LittleBigMan

Well, one more pleasant afternoon riding home.

But this time mostly on the arterial known as Decatur St./Dekalb Ave./Howard St./College Ave./Covington Hwy. It's a main artery from Five Points in the center of Atlanta eastward toward Stone Mountain.

I took the center of the lane when the lane was too narrow to share, and moved as far right as practical when it was not. This was from about 4:30 pm. to about 5:15 pm, maybe 10 miles (I was tired. )

I don't usually take such a direct route home in afternoon traffic, but I was tired and felt like getting home more quickly. I had no close passes. I had one polite honk (like, honk, honk, honk, very softly--but I could tell it was impatience.) I actually veered off the road to let traffic pass, and it cost me a light.

One person actually passed, then pulled in front of me with emergency flashers on and escorted me a short distance (I didn't need it, but I felt a strange curiosity at this, I'd never seen the like before.)

Yep, all in all everyone was extremely nice (not like the freeway )

Beck, this Bud's for you.

Bekologist

again, how you acheive all this timidity from drivers is beyond comprehension. it's as if you ride in the twilight zone of politenessville, utopia. The Truman Show, perhaps?

this cup of coffee is for you, little big man. no sugar.

you must ride where the streets are paved with gold......

I have a sneaking suspicion that seasoned road bicyclists, without exception, could share multiple anecdotes of drivers getting agressive, reving engine, yelling out the window, angrily honking, etc. as the bicyclist rode in a lane too narrow to share.

Anyway, nice you live in such a polite place with such timid drivers

LittleBigMan

HAHAHAHA!!!

"Seasoned road bicyclists..." You sound like you posess the golden key of road cycling. "Seasoned road bicyclists" sounds a lot like "competent cyclists" to me.

Please, let me have a copy of that golden key. I have always been jealous of cyclists who experience "...drivers getting agressive, reving engine, yelling out the window, angrily honking, etc. as the bicyclist rode in a lane too narrow to share."

Of course, a "seasoned road bicyclist" would know that "...revving engines, yelling out the window, and angrily honking" never hurt anyone (unless you count hurt feelings.)

But I do feel quite content not having to put up with very much of that.

Your curiosity about "how I acheive all this timidity from drivers" is easily answered.

I don't achieve it.

I don't achieve it any more than you achieve all the aggressiveness you seem to experience from drivers.

Bekologist

someone pass me the sugar.

LittleBigMan

He'll need it.

I've often wondered why you experience so much grief riding a bike, Beck. It's just not my normal experience.

Bekologist

um, it's due to a group of road users called 'motorists'

maybe I take the lane more than you?

LittleBigMan

How much more of the lane can you take than dead center?