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Got in an accident sunday night...

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Got in an accident sunday night...

Old 11-15-07, 07:49 PM
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AdamJaz
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Got in an accident sunday night...

The graph on the police report sums it up pretty well.



Basically, I was cruising through a green, and a pickup failed to yield.

He got cited.

I got taken to the hospital by paramedics.

My bike is done. My jeans are done. My tibial plateau is broken.

I scraped up my arms pretty well, lost enough blood on scene that the cops used hydroxide on the cement. I bruised more or less everything. I was flipped upside down and went flying. It was crazy.

But, other than that, I'm ok.

His fender is broken. I dented his hood/grill. I broke in his windshield.

Just thought I'd share for discussion.
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Old 11-15-07, 07:58 PM
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Good thing he got a ticket. Talk to a lawyer - you've got a good claim. Glad you're OK.
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Old 11-15-07, 07:59 PM
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Above all else, best wishes for a speedy and thorough recovery.

This is similar to my one encounter with a motor vehicle, almost exactly 31 years ago, except the motorist was turning left into a driveway.

In which city is this particular intersection of Broadway and Euclid?

How fast were you going?

Were there any other relevant circumstances, such as rising or setting sun, inclement weather, etc?

Were you well lighted (at night) or wearing bright colors (daytime)?

The motorist has been cited -- this is a very good first step. Make sure he gets a point or two against his driving record. Do not settle with the claims adjuster, who is paid to pressure you into making a fast and somewhat low settlement, until you know the full extent of your injuries, your medical prognosis, and your material losses (bike, clothing, etc.). Have every recommended medical test done, and keep a detailed set of records, including travel expenses, lost work days, and your time. Press aggressively for an equitable settlement, which generally translates to 3 or 4 times your total medical expenses for pain and suffering, assuming no permanent impairments.

Is there anything you could have done to mitigate the impacts of the collision on yourself, such as a quick turn to the right?
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Old 11-15-07, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamJaz View Post
.

...But, other than that, I'm ok....
Glad to hear that
(much sarcasm included)
Would that Euclid be in northeast ohio?
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Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post

What's frightening is how coherent Hickey was in posting that.
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Old 11-16-07, 01:08 AM
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It sure happens fast, doesn't it?

Lawyer up and heal fast. Get photos of his vehicle if you can.
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Old 11-16-07, 01:23 AM
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oh, that's a tough one. Glad you're "okay" but whew! it sounds serious. Heal well and hang in there through the recovery process. I hope you're back on the bike in no time.
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Old 11-16-07, 09:14 AM
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Thanks for the kind words.

This Broadway and Euclid was in Tucson, AZ.

I was going 22-23 MPH, I would estimate, however I did not have a cyclocomputer on that bike.

I was well lighted, and it was at night. I had a blinking rear reflector, as well as a front light.

I was trying to do the quick get out of the accident, by turning right, but he kept driving...

The claims adjuster wants to settle, and my mom suggested we settle with that, but submit my receipt for my Trek Madone 5.2 SL instead of the Kilo TT I was on :-P

I get to finally see the ortho today.
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Old 11-16-07, 12:33 PM
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glad you're ok. Hope you heal up well.

First, definitely get a personal injury attorney. You're in no rush.
Don't sign anything or do any interviews with their adjuster until you talk to an atty. I suspect their first offer will be well below what you'd get in court and below later offers. Any conversations their adjuster has will be solely to discredit you or reduce the value of your claim.

Don't submit your madone receipt. That's called fraud and you could do jail time and tank your entire case by destroying your credibility if you get caught. When they see a receipt for a toy/bike that costs that much they may ask questions and you don't want to put yourself in a hole. Remember anything you write here can be used in civil court. I'd recommend deleting details from your posts. Your pain & suffering will likely exceed the actual damages even if it was a madone.

Good luck with the ortho & recovery.
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Old 11-16-07, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamJaz View Post
The claims adjuster wants to settle, and my mom suggested we settle with that, but submit my receipt for my Trek Madone 5.2 SL instead of the Kilo TT I was on :-P
I have no advice on whether to settle or not, but a definite opinion on insurance fraud. DON'T DO IT!!!

I am not a lawyer, but based on my understanding, talking about something is conspiracy, so you may have just published about your conspiracy to commit insurance fraud...

Watch what you say or write whenever you are involved in legal matters.
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Old 11-16-07, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamJaz View Post
Just thought I'd share for discussion.
It was 100% the motorists fault. No question about it.

Left crosses are to me the most concerning possibility in similar driving conditions/road layout as Tucson.

You had a headlight. That helps. I bought the brightest one reasonable for my budget a 10W HID and have it aimed near parallel to road surface, not pointing down for a spot 15' in front of me on the road as most other set-ups I've seen.

When riding thru intersections like this I stay away from the right most thru lane edge unless there are faster vehicles going with me thru the intersection. These faster vehicles act as the visual deterrent from the potential left turning vehicle.

When there are not faster vehicles I do not ride in the far right bike lane. I ride left biased in the right most thru lane.

The combination of being where motorists tend to look and higher than normal cyclist visibility help to reduce the chance of a left cross. Nothing can eliminate it, a common accident for car/car collisions is the left cross here in Phx-metro, drivers are too eager to jump a gap and make errors in assessing the conditions.

Wishes for the best recovery and in receiving fair honest compensation for your actual losses.

Al
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Old 11-16-07, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
When riding thru intersections like this I stay away from the right most thru lane edge unless there are faster vehicles going with me thru the intersection. These faster vehicles act as the visual deterrent from the potential left turning vehicle.

When there are not faster vehicles I do not ride in the far right bike lane. I ride left biased in the right most thru lane.

The combination of being where motorists tend to look and higher than normal cyclist visibility help to reduce the chance of a left cross. Nothing can eliminate it, a common accident for car/car collisions is the left cross here in Phx-metro, drivers are too eager to jump a gap and make errors in assessing the conditions.
Good advice, Al.

Adam, I wonder if you could tell us what role, if any, the bike lane played in you choosing to ride where you were riding, as opposed to riding where Al is suggesting.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:02 PM
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The bike lane is part of the right turn ONLY lane. A left turning motorist is going to look at the through lanes for vehicles which keep them from making their left turn. Because the cyclist was in the right turn ONLY lane (as dictated by the bike lane), the motorist was far less likely to see the cyclist. Chalk another one up for bike lanes.

But for those who love bike lanes, what is one more casualty.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin View Post
Adam, before answering, consider the motivation behind the question.

Serge has already determined that the bike lane encouraged you to "use an inferior position when the space they demarcate happens to coincide with inferior positioning given the current conditions."

https://bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p...&postcount=390
I'm not quite sure what Pete's motivation is to try and sabotage our ability to try and get an honest and unbiased answer to the question.

By the way, Adam, I don't fault you for the crash in any way, and I'm very glad that this incident is not appropriate to reference in the "bike lane deaths" thread. I do fault the traffic engineers, and especially the so-called "bike advocates" who support these facilities that encourage inferior positioning (especially inferior when faster same direction is not present) at the approaches to intersections and junctions.

Now that my nefarious motivations have been brought to light, I wonder if you'd ever heard of or read about the type of lane positioning advice provided by noisebeam and CB HI above prior to starting this thread.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
The bike lane is part of the right turn ONLY lane. A left turning motorist is going to look at the through lanes for vehicles which keep them from making their left turn. Because the cyclist was in the right turn ONLY lane (as dictated by the bike lane), the motorist was far less likely to see the cyclist. Chalk another one up for bike lanes. ...
If being in the bike lane automatically puts one into a right-turn-only lane, then the city traffic engineer is partly responsible for this collision.

This unfortunate event is not necessarily an effective argument against a bike lane located between a right-turn-only lane and the rightmost main through lane.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:24 PM
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I've been left crossed multiple times while in the driving lane... I was once left crossed while attempting a left turn from a left turn lane with a green light (Yes, the motorist ran a red light to do so)

No amount of positioning will protect you from EVERY idiot out there.

Heal fast, and good luck dealing with the crooks... I mean, insurance company.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:29 PM
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Take your time before settling the claim. You'll probably want to at least consult with an attorney, if not retain one.

Take plenty of photos of your bike and of your injuries. Keep taking photos of your injuries over time to document how long they take to heal.

Be as honest as you can with the insurance company, but don't give in to pressures to settle. Given the extent of your injuries you could be looking at med bills for quite a while.

And, finally, "pain and suffering" is your paycheck. You'll most likely get a shockingly large check for that (at least $10,000, in addition to your lost time at work, replacement bike, and all med/ambulance bills). Don't let them low-ball you...if you think they are, lawyer up.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
If being in the bike lane automatically puts one into a right-turn-only lane, then the city traffic engineer is partly responsible for this collision.

This unfortunate event is not necessarily an effective argument against a bike lane located between a right-turn-only lane and the rightmost main through lane.
Look at the diagram in the OP, John. It is a typical bike lane that you support - adjacent to and to the LEFT of the right only lane, yet still to the right of where oncoming left-turners are paying most of their attention in terms of looking for traffic to which they need to yield.

To significantly reduce (not eliminate - that's not possible) the likelihood of being in this type of crash, follow noisebeam's lane positioning advice above.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807 View Post
I've been left crossed multiple times while in the driving lane... I was once left crossed while attempting a left turn from a left turn lane with a green light (Yes, the motorist ran a red light to do so)

No amount of positioning will protect you from EVERY idiot out there.

Heal fast, and good luck dealing with the crooks... I mean, insurance company.
No one is arguing that best practices in lane positioning will ever protect anyone from EVERY idiot out there.

But best practices in lane positioning, as outlined by noisebeam above, can make a big difference in significantly reducing the likelihood of being overlooked in a situation like this.

These are the words from the OP: "Basically, I was cruising through a green, and a pickup failed to yield. ".

What's missing, of course, is the driver's failure to NOTICE the cyclist. Unless he happened to be a homicidal maniac, that's why he failed to yield.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin View Post
In looking at the police report diagram and a real world photo of the accident scene, The bike lane is to the left of the RTOL and not a part of it.

You are apparently blinded by your fear/hatred of bike lanes.
Actually I was going to get on CBHI's case as the BL is not part of the RTOL in the accident diagram.

However in the photo you provided the BL is marked inside the RTOL area, as it goes inside the line made by right edge of the outer lane before the additional RTOL pavement extends. That is, the left side BL stripe is a continuation of the rightmost lane stripe prior to the RTOL.

Anyway, inside or outside the RTOL is somewhat irrelevant. The best place for a cyclist to be when there is no faster same direction traffic is left biased in the outer full width thru lane.

Al
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Old 11-16-07, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
Look at the diagram in the OP, John. It is a typical bike lane that you support - adjacent to and to the LEFT of the right only lane, yet still to the right of where oncoming left-turners are paying most of their attention in terms of looking for traffic to which they need to yield.

To significantly reduce (not eliminate - that's not possible) the likelihood of being in this type of crash, follow noisebeam's lane positioning advice above.
There's nothing wrong with the intersection.... I had my car destroyed in an identical accident...

Are you trying to tell me that I was using inferior lane positioning while driving and that's why I got hit????

:boggles:
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Old 11-16-07, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin View Post
In looking at the police report diagram and a real world photo of the accident scene, The bike lane is to the left of the RTOL and not a part of it.

You are apparently blinded by your fear/hatred of bike lanes.

Look closer, Pete. Given that the RTOL starts about where the dashing begins, the bike lane IS part of the RTOL, albeit it is painted along the left edge of the RTOL. The bike lane is carved right out of the RTOL, and should be treated accordingly. I think that's what CB HI meant.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
Actually I was going to get on CBHI's case as the BL is not part of the RTOL in the accident diagram.

However in the photo you provided the BL is marked inside the RTOL area, as it goes inside the line made by right edge of the outer lane before the additional RTOL pavement extends. That is, the left side BL stripe is a continuation of the rightmost lane stripe prior to the RTOL.

Al
+1 exactly.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
Actually I was going to get on CBHI's case as the BL is not part of the RTOL in the accident diagram.

However in the photo you provided the BL is marked inside the RTOL area, as it goes inside the line made by right edge of the outer lane before the additional RTOL pavement extends. That is, the left side BL stripe is a continuation of the rightmost lane stripe prior to the RTOL.

Al
Umm... that's because the rightmost lane stripe prior to the RTOL was the left side of the BL. DUH.

What the hell do you want them to do? Move the bike lane over by the left turn lane?

:boggle:

You people are INSANE.
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Old 11-16-07, 03:48 PM
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Whoa, so glad you're "okay" and I wish you a speedy recovery. I hope you get a fair settlement on this. :/
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Old 11-16-07, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807 View Post
There's nothing wrong with the intersection.... I had my car destroyed in an identical accident...

Are you trying to tell me that I was using inferior lane positioning while driving and that's why I got hit????

:boggles:
Please identify, by color, what part of,
To significantly reduce (not eliminate - that's not possible) the likelihood of being in this type of crash...
you do not understand.
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