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Debate about Tax Credit for Bicyclists in the US House of Representatives

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Debate about Tax Credit for Bicyclists in the US House of Representatives

Old 12-27-07, 08:11 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DieselDan View Post
If you go car free in South Carolina, you also don't pay property tax on your car, but you can't have a driver's license without showing proof there is a car insurance policy with your name on it.
I real curious about this. It's been bugging me for several days.

What does a person have to do if they don't own a car and need a license? I can think of many scenarios where they would need one - work, travel, in order to rent a car etc.

Also, if this is indeed true, it seems that one could challenge this law from a constitutional standpoint.
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Old 12-27-07, 08:21 PM
  #27  
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Re: Three Mile Island
Yes there is no scientific or agreement that the rise in birth defects in Harrisburg was attributed to the incident. It’s just one of those freaky coincidences, maybe it was just something in the water or milk.

As to where we should get the power we need, that’s the rub. Too many options are just not cool.

Out of curiosity we are already building nuclear power plants so why are they being discussed in the energy bill? What’s new or different that is being purposed?
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Old 12-27-07, 10:12 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
And we all know how reliable and accurate wikipedia is.

Elkhound, you diminish yourself. The source is not Wikipedia. The quote from other sources is found there- IAEA and WHO. Why would the United Nations World Health Organization lie about this?
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Old 12-27-07, 10:24 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
Out of curiosity we are already building nuclear power plants so why are they being discussed in the energy bill? Whatís new or different that is being purposed?
It doesn't matter, and it certainly hasn't been discussed. The Democrat leadership demanded a vote on the re-worked bill with less than 24 hours of publishing it out of conference committee. No one who voted for or against the bill new more than a part of the contents, and there was no debate. Yet another broken promise from Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid.
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Old 12-27-07, 11:34 PM
  #30  
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Sorry guys..... Haven't you ever heard of a faint.You are all argueing about nuking when you should be discussing bike credits. In 2 years politicians will say we tried that but there was no interest.The bike credit idea is an excellent idea, now in an amendment to a bill,right now shot up as a trial balloon.Those who oppose it know if commuter biking hits 15% then there will be alot more accomodations made to further encourage the use of bikes as commuter transport. This in turn would lower the demand on gasoline which then would inturn drop the price of fuel. We then would have no reason to be in Iraq or protect Saudi Arabia.This could then drastically change the political view in this country. So in this forum lets advocate legislation that would improve the climate for riders everywhere. Also realize that when we ride a bike instead of take the car we are in a nonviolent way, turning our favorite form of transportation into a weapon against terrorists by depriving them of the money recieved from oil profits to pay the families of suicide bombers(Did you ever think of Trek as a defense contractor). Atomic energy is a viable short term solution. People would freak if they knew that the coal in this country could last for the next 100 thousand years. A thousand times what oil is in the whole middleeast. We as bikers can take the lead in many other ways.We just need to watch out for sneaky politicians who, when we are given an opportunity to change for the better the enviroment of our nation, instead represent greedy self interest. FIGHT TERROR ! RIDE A BIKE!!!!!
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Old 12-28-07, 04:15 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mandovoodoo View Post
Funny about 3 mile island. I visited a relative with a cycle shop, then drove right by the plant during the accident. Didn't find out about it until that evening!

US plants are safe, if we'd build a next generation they'd be much safer. Coal plants aren't safe, leading to pollution and mining deaths.
Yeah that is kinda nice, apparently they're still using half the plant too.
However I think if you want an interesting view of a melted down plant, the ONLY place to go is Chernobyl, simply because the scale of it, the cities, the plant itself, are simply awesome.

Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
Elkhound, you diminish yourself. The source is not Wikipedia. The quote from other sources is found there- IAEA and WHO. Why would the United Nations World Health Organization lie about this?
Not to mention Wikipedia is a gathering of sources, it just shows one's ignorance as to how Wikipedia works. It's a piece of software, not a book, use it properly.

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
Re: Three Mile Island
Yes there is no scientific or agreement that the rise in birth defects in Harrisburg was attributed to the incident. It’s just one of those freaky coincidences, maybe it was just something in the water or milk.

As to where we should get the power we need, that’s the rub. Too many options are just not cool.

Out of curiosity we are already building nuclear power plants so why are they being discussed in the energy bill? What’s new or different that is being purposed?
Since when? I thought we stopped building them over 15 years ago:
https://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/mer/pdf/pages/sec8_3.pdf
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Old 12-28-07, 04:43 AM
  #32  
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Our current form of government (USA - not here) uses taxes and credits as a means to manipulate the population. Punishment and reward. They tax things that they would like to reduce and credit things they would like to increase. You don't pay tax on the interest on your house payment, for example. Why? Because the government wants you to have a house. You do pay tax on the interest on credit cards.

By giving a tax credit for riding a bike they encourage you to ride a bike it would be assumed. As long as they continue this mode, I see nothing wrong with including cycling as a positive thing to reward.

Now, the issue regarding if you should be punished for somethings in the form of taxes or rewarded for others in the form of credits is another. In truth, what is the difference between paying a fine for breaking the law and paying more tax, except one you can not appeal?

Upsetting myself here the more I think about how much the government thinks it is their job to manipulate us. Not that I think it will change. I do know that down here my taxes are very simple, no credits, pretty much a flat tax (called value added) with an income tax that kicks in over a certain amount. (the majority never pay it) No capital gains tax, no estate tax. The government did try the manipulation route and the whole country nearly shut down in reaction.

So, I don't have a problem with cycling being considered a good activity. I do have a problem with the idea of being led around like a donkey with a carrot and a stick in the form of credits and taxes.

just my dos colones
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Old 12-28-07, 06:56 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by MrCjolsen View Post
I real curious about this. It's been bugging me for several days.

What does a person have to do if they don't own a car and need a license? I can think of many scenarios where they would need one - work, travel, in order to rent a car etc.

Also, if this is indeed true, it seems that one could challenge this law from a constitutional standpoint.
I suspect that the original poster is mistaken and the requirement is for your cars lic. tab and not the drivers lic. to drive, but I don't live in the state and could be wrong.
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Old 12-28-07, 08:20 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Scot_Gore View Post
I suspect that the original poster is mistaken and the requirement is for your cars lic. tab and not the drivers lic. to drive, but I don't live in the state and could be wrong.
I found this on the SC DMV web site. It still seems a bit vague:

Insurance Information

Before a driverís license can be issued or renewed, you must furnish current insurance information. You must provide the company name of your automobile insurance company, which must be authorized to do business in South Carolina. If you or any relative in your household does not own a vehicle, you must indicate that fact on your application.

https://www.scdmvonline.com/Dlidentity.aspx
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Old 12-28-07, 01:09 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by 10speed View Post
...You are all argueing about nuking when you should be discussing bike credits.
Sorry, 10-speed, I guess it was a mistake to mention the nuclear power debate in my original post and expect the discussion to remain about the tax credit. It is relevant in that the congressman certainly thinks that encouraging nuclear power is more important than encouraging bicycling, but not worth the distraction.

FYI, I think you are talking about the word feint, meaning a ruse rather than faint which is what happens when you get a big dose of radiation or don't drink enough while riding a bike.

Happy and peaceful 2008
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Old 12-28-07, 01:53 PM
  #36  
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At first I thought the bill was about a new nuclear powered car. That would make our roadways a whole lot safer.
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Old 12-28-07, 04:29 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
Why would the United Nations World Health Organization lie about this?
Politics. The UNWHO--like the rest of the misnamed United Nations--would say that the sun rose in the West if it were under political pressure to do so.
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Old 12-28-07, 04:38 PM
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I have written to the SC DMV for clarification. I will post their answer.
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Old 12-28-07, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy Dyson View Post
Sorry, 10-speed, I guess it was a mistake to mention the nuclear power debate in my original post and expect the discussion to remain about the tax credit. It is relevant in that the congressman certainly thinks that encouraging nuclear power is more important than encouraging bicycling, but not worth the distraction.

FYI, I think you are talking about the word feint, meaning a ruse rather than faint which is what happens when you get a big dose of radiation or don't drink enough while riding a bike.

Happy and peaceful 2008
You mention taxes and nuclear power, guess where the science lover is going to go?
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Old 12-29-07, 06:00 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Andy Dyson View Post
Sorry, 10-speed, I guess it was a mistake to mention the nuclear power debate in my original post and expect the discussion to remain about the tax credit. It is relevant in that the congressman certainly thinks that encouraging nuclear power is more important than encouraging bicycling, but not worth the distraction.

FYI, I think you are talking about the word feint, meaning a ruse rather than faint which is what happens when you get a big dose of radiation or don't drink enough while riding a bike.

Happy and peaceful 2008
Sorry, I forgot to use spell check.
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Old 12-29-07, 11:18 AM
  #41  
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I'm sitting here at a nuclear plant right now and finding this debate interesting.

https://www.nrc.gov/info-finder/reactor/bv2.html

In my opinion the nuclear industry is one of the best run, safest industry in the world. I'm fine living 4 miles from here, but the black sludge drops that ocaasionally fall on my propery from the coal burners down the road do concern me. Also I think that right now the only technology capable of significantly reducing greenhouse gas emmisions is nuclear. I also think it is very unlikely that terrorists could cause a significant radiation release.

On the other hand there is no way to assure a 0% chane of an accident ever occuring somewhere on the planet. Spent fuel is also real problem, even with reprocessing or different reactor designs to reduce the amount. What's to say that our government or society doesn't colapse at some point in the future. Certainly it's pretty likely in the next several thousand years. Who's going to deal with the fuel then? I'm one of the persons who might be considered responsible for this sort of thing, but if my paycheck ever stopped coming I wouldn't be hanging around very long. It is imperative that an extremely long term storage solution be found before the next gereration of reactors are built.

I'm a believer in human progress. There is no reason why we should be afraid of any technology, automatically ruling it out as a solution to our problems. I believe that nuclear power is quite safe now and will be much safer yet with the next generation plants, however the fuel storage issue needs to be resolved first.
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Old 12-29-07, 11:48 AM
  #42  
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On the other subject

Originally Posted by crtreedude View Post
Our current form of government (USA - not here) uses taxes and credits as a means to manipulate the population. Punishment and reward. They tax things that they would like to reduce and credit things they would like to increase. You don't pay tax on the interest on your house payment, for example. Why? Because the government wants you to have a house. You do pay tax on the interest on credit cards.
+1000, I don't think that the government should try to influence anyone's behavior. I don't agree with commuting tax breaks, even though I'd qualify. I also don't agree that alcohol and cigarettes should be taxed anymore than anything else even though I don't smoke but do drink. Our government should have absolutely no concern with any of our lifestyle choices. They should not try to dictate right and wrong.
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Old 12-29-07, 04:36 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by biknbrian View Post
On the other subject



+1000, I don't think that the government should try to influence anyone's behavior. I don't agree with commuting tax breaks, even though I'd qualify. I also don't agree that alcohol and cigarettes should be taxed anymore than anything else even though I don't smoke but do drink. Our government should have absolutely no concern with any of our lifestyle choices. They should not try to dictate right and wrong.
Bear in mind that the transportation fringe benefit act dosn't dictate anything.

First, it's completely optional for your employer to particpate. It dosn't mandate that your employer offer you any part of the program. My last employer offered none of them, my current employer offers mass transit and parking benefits, but does not offer the van pool portion. If your employer offers the plan, nothing requires you to use mass transit or pay to park. It's not anymore coercive than them offering a 401K plan. 401K isn't requiried by law and if one is offered you don't have to elect to put money in it. Do you believe everyone particpating in a tax differed savings plan is being strong armed by the Man?

Second, the idea that these kind of incentives are an example of some kind of coercive totalitarianism is it's own form of extreamism IMHO. People who think this is an example of the government "meddling" in your cycling are not paying attention to what's being presented. Stop Signs (aka specific behavior mandated by the government at an intersection) do more to control you than small incentives like this.
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Old 12-30-07, 10:00 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Scot_Gore View Post
Bear in mind that the transportation fringe benefit act dosn't dictate anything.

First, it's completely optional for your employer to particpate. It dosn't mandate that your employer offer you any part of the program. My last employer offered none of them, my current employer offers mass transit and parking benefits, but does not offer the van pool portion. If your employer offers the plan, nothing requires you to use mass transit or pay to park. It's not anymore coercive than them offering a 401K plan. 401K isn't requiried by law and if one is offered you don't have to elect to put money in it. Do you believe everyone particpating in a tax differed savings plan is being strong armed by the Man?

Second, the idea that these kind of incentives are an example of some kind of coercive totalitarianism is it's own form of extreamism IMHO. People who think this is an example of the government "meddling" in your cycling are not paying attention to what's being presented. Stop Signs (aka specific behavior mandated by the government at an intersection) do more to control you than small incentives like this.
All my life I had thought that I wanted to live my life free to make my own decisions without someone elseís influence. But lately Iíve had a revelation thanks to all the interesting things Iíve read onlineÖ

You see good people, about myself Iíve discovered this new thing,
when I give up complete control Iím so happy I could sing.

Because Great Leaders itís so plain that anyone could see,
despite the fact weíve never met you know whatís best for me.

So Great Leaders I now have some things Iíd like to ask,
I sincerely hope that youíll have time for this little task.

Tell me first Great Leaders, when I must work should I go by car?
Big or small, fast or slow, or by bike if not too far?

And if I ride my motorcycle, a helmet should I wear?
What if I really donít like it cause it messes up my hair?

For those times that I feel Iíd like to smoke and to drink,
Please tell me Leaders about these things, what is it that you think?

About the herb, oh Great Leaders, some say itís not so bad.
If I could get your opinion Iíd be so very glad.

Now if I smoked I might get hungry so tell me what to eat.
Maybe some more fruits and veggies, maybe less red meat?

If Iím not home then would you mind if I did eat out,
Or would this turn me into an obese and lazy lout?

Oh Great Leaders please tell me if I should own a gun,
Or if someone might hurt me should I always turn and run?

I know that youíd protect me if I could make a call,
But if I could not get to a phone, how would you know at all?

And if I do reach out, how long till you get here?
Should I just huddle in a ball filled with morbid fear?

Do you suppose that I could maybe watch a little TV,
Or would more exercise be a much better thing for me?

Oh great leaders please tell me could I play a violent game,
Or would I then be compelled to **** and kill and maim?

About my kids, oh Great Leaders, how do they like to roam,
Please pass a curfew so we all know when they should be home.

For my retirement my Great Leaders should I save some more,
Or should I go blow my whole paycheck at the nearest store?

Do you suppose oh Great Leader that I could maybe gamble,
It seems ok to me but my money youíd surely better handle.

I must also ask if itís ok for men to be with men.
Or if my faith permits polygamy, oh Greats Leaders, what then?

You see Great Leaders there are so many thing that you must surely tell.
Your moral compass must guide our fine nation away from the depths of Hell.

So in you my Great Leaders I place the utmost faith,
I know that you will always keep me oh so nice and safe.

Because I know you will always do what is the best for me,
I love the law, I neednít know if my milkís hormone free.

https://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071113/milk_...ones.html?.v=2
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Old 12-30-07, 03:59 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by biknbrian View Post
...however the fuel storage issue needs to be resolved first.
+ 1000000000
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Old 01-09-08, 08:38 PM
  #46  
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With things such as critical mass trying to make an imprint on society as a whole, cycling in the future has an interesting future. Those of us who presently use this form of transportation, having expierienced the delightful wonder of combining exercise, travel and other benefits, need to guide others with encouragment so that our enviroment ,both communal and natural, can improve. If we look at presenting the bicycle as a viable choice in the area of human transport. We can see things impossible to think of today. Things such as universal healthcare may be possible without bankrupting us. Our energy bill could focus more on uses other than transportation.This bill is just a piece of that puzzle. We need to encourage our goverment to help. This bill while imperfect could help in that change. For those who are against this bill I have one request. If you don't like the idea of tax credits suggest a better idea to convince people addicted to gas out of their bucket seats and onto a bicycle seat!
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Old 01-10-08, 11:09 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by StrangeWill View Post
You mention taxes and nuclear power, guess where the science lover is going to go?

Not smart enough to guess, Will... I don't know what you mean by this, really. Pure science is pretty much supported by taxes... Nuclear power isn't really economical without bailouts for plant decomissioning, waste disposal and so on... not sure what you're getting at. Do you mean that scientists prefer nuclear power to being taxed? For my part, my ideal renewable sources of energy and taxation by a government that represents the interests of the people it serves.
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Old 12-25-08, 03:36 AM
  #48  
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20 buck tax credit

While I think its a move in the right direction, the 20 buck a month tax credit being given to the business instead of the empoyee kind of sucks! If you know the secret. You present it to your business and they will point to the local medical community(the countries major employer 20% of the workforce) and ask why they don't do it. What they don't tell you is they(hospitals etc) are not for profit so they can't take advantage of it. If they were serious about it they would have rebated bike related stuff,that would have encouraged bike ridership. This is one of those crazy we tried but no one took advantage speeches.
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Old 12-25-08, 08:50 PM
  #49  
JohnBrooking
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Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
It would be a tax break for your employer. In the class warfare language of the Democrat leaders, all employers are "rich".
Wouldn't this be simply another thing individuals itemize on their own returns? What does the employer have to do with it?
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Old 12-26-08, 07:44 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking View Post
Wouldn't this be simply another thing individuals itemize on their own returns? What does the employer have to do with it?
This thread is a year old, so I'm not sure how what was being debated in December of 2007 relates to what was passed this fall, and goes into effect next week. Anyway, what goes into effect next week is explained here. It seems like with the current bill an employer can offer a fringe benefit to employees who bike to work. I assume that the employer could then write that off.

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