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Vancouver WA Poised to Enact All-Ages Helmet Law

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Vancouver WA Poised to Enact All-Ages Helmet Law

Old 01-30-08, 01:40 PM
  #26  
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I posted a thread on Saskatoon's (the last city in Canada to) attempt to pass a mandatory helmet by-law last year

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...t=#post4172405

it includes newspaper reports and editorials as well as radio commentary.

In it I mention St. John's has the only city helmet by-law in the country, but there is also a single suburb of Montreal that has one too, so that makes, 2.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:18 PM
  #27  
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it may be a good strategy for lobbiests to avoid publicity when trying to get a law passed. It seems when people know that such a law is being considered, the proposal gets defeated
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Old 01-30-08, 02:38 PM
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...if you wish to comment on the pending adoption of a youth/ all ages helmet law in Vancouver (and soon to be Clark County) please send your email by next Monday (Feb 4, 2008) to:

CITY COUNCIL
Royce.pollard@ci.vancouver.wa.us (Mayor)
Pat.Jollota@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Jeanne.Harris@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Jeanne.Stewart@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Tim.Leavitt@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Larry.Smith@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Pat.Campbell@ci.vancouver.wa.us

CITY MANAGER
vancmo@ci.vancouver.wa.us

PRESS
letters@columbian.com
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Old 01-30-08, 11:58 PM
  #29  
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Every TV news story involving a cyclist fatality I've seen always seems to state if the victim was wearing a helmet or not, even if the cyclist was run completely over by a cement truck. Perhaps that subconciously reinforces right and wrong for the general public audience.
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Old 01-31-08, 12:36 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by gritface View Post
Every TV news story involving a cyclist fatality I've seen always seems to state if the victim was wearing a helmet or not, even if the cyclist was run completely over by a cement truck. Perhaps that subconciously reinforces right and wrong for the general public audience.
I think it goes like this:

Bicycle traffic makes motorist uncomfortable > bikes don't belong in the street > it's a dangerous activity > it must require a helmet > you're an idiot if you don't wear one > if you bite it while not wearing one you were asking for it.
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Old 01-31-08, 09:16 AM
  #31  
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and what people are often mistaken about is the helmets ability to protect a cyclist in a collision with a motor vehicle. I think people up here are starting to get that picture because of our high usage rate and the continuing deaths to cyclists who are now wearing helmets.

I don't think a government would want to legislate potential protection for every little bump and bruise but instead have a admirable intention of preventing deaths and that's where these laws fall short. The higher the rate of helmet use, the higher the rate of cyclists who die with helmets on, because it's not the lack of helmets that cause the deaths of cyclists, it's the mistakes that people make that lead to collisions between motor vehicles and cyclists that is the problem.

Helmet laws ignore the causes of cyclist deaths and only end up discouraging cyclists from riding making one of the causes of cyclist deaths (lack of cyclists on the road) worse.

*just a note. I checked my paper this morning and there was a story about a local person (from Whistler) on a cycle touring vacation in New Zealand (helmet law 90% compliance) and was killed while riding safely by being rear ended. Investigation is continuing* http://www.stuff.co.nz/4382502a11.html *

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Old 01-31-08, 10:15 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
I think it goes like this:

Bicycle traffic makes motorist uncomfortable > bikes don't belong in the street > it's a dangerous activity > it must require a helmet > you're an idiot if you don't wear one > if you bite it while not wearing one you were asking for it.
yep. pretty much.
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Old 02-04-08, 11:59 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by randya View Post
...if you wish to comment on the pending adoption of a youth/ all ages helmet law in Vancouver (and soon to be Clark County) please send your email by next Monday (Feb 4, 2008) to:

CITY COUNCIL
Royce.pollard@ci.vancouver.wa.us (Mayor)
Pat.Jollota@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Jeanne.Harris@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Jeanne.Stewart@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Tim.Leavitt@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Larry.Smith@ci.vancouver.wa.us
Pat.Campbell@ci.vancouver.wa.us

CITY MANAGER
vancmo@ci.vancouver.wa.us



PRESS
letters@columbian.com
I hope everyone wrote in. I didn't (I had a wedding this week-end and was very busy)
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Old 02-04-08, 02:33 PM
  #34  
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Yay for wasting time and money, there isn't a large enough medical demand for injuries to justify the cost to create and enforce this.
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Old 02-04-08, 03:08 PM
  #35  
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hmmm, for some reason I thought the whole state of WA already had a mandatory helmet law. Must just be King County.

Anyways, if King County is any indication, the law will be almost universally ignored, both by the cyclists and the cops who would ticket the cyclists. I see more cyclists NOT wearing helmets than those that do, and I've never once seen anyone get a ticket, or even any cops policing the areas heavily populated by cyclists.

And remember, whenever there's an accident with a cyclist, what's the first thing that's reported? "The cyclist was not wearing a helmet, or the cyclist's helmet was improperly buckled, etc. etc.". Obviously, according to the media, a helmet (when worn properly) has almost a magical ability to keep a cyclist out of harm's way. Any cyclist that does not wear a helmet deserves anything that might happen to them since they are obviously irresponsible and were probably annoying the driver that hit them anyways.
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Old 02-04-08, 04:10 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by randya View Post
wow, this is incredible, something most of us can agree on!

That video was a great watch, thanks. I can't believe all the bike club members who said that everyone of all ages should be made to wear one. I thought once they went up there they would oppose. I particularly like the part about the one dude saying that after 1000's of hours on his bike he finally had a crash, and if he didn't have that helmet on he would be an invalid or dead lol. How can he claim that? I know we all have crashed at one time or another and yet here we are. We didn't have helmets when I was growing up and no one would have worn the thing anyway if we did. I crashed my bike more times than I can ever remember doing crazy stuff when I was younger, yet still I live. How can this be? I surely should be dead or an invalid by now. Whether I wear a helmet or not is not important. What is important is that I should be able to chose.
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Old 02-09-08, 10:15 AM
  #37  
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The video was great to watch, but it was a little bit frustrating too. I wish I could have been there to give some input.

I don't have a problem if people see things in different ways, but the nature in which each made their case was horrible. All kinds of anecdotal and emotional stories, equating bicycle helmets to seat belts and that great part where the bike club member guy saying helmets wear out after 5 years. Even with lots of examples where helmet laws have been enacted, no one shows what the end results of those laws had been.

No one seems to understand that it's motor vehicles that end cyclists lives and that helmeted cyclists meet similar fates in those collisions. No one seems to get the context of brain injury and the scope of acquiring it through trauma or lack of exercise. No one seems to get that passing these laws usually only succeed in lowering the amount of cyclists and increasing the incidence of brain injury.

If council was serious about the protection of cyclists, they'd enforce traffic law and provide education to show those who don't understand the rules of the road and how to interact with road users to stay safe.
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Old 02-09-08, 11:28 AM
  #38  
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Ugh.

While I'm on the PRO CHOICE side of wearing a helmet, but enacting and enforcing a law for all ages (pointing at adults mainly) over what is already established is just overkill.


... unless this is directed at the people who ride a bicycle (note I refrain from calling them bicyclists) all over the street and have, many times, bags and bags of recycle cans on them ... not a helmet on them at all.

Hmmm, gives them an ability to be able to pull over people riding a bicycle - and no helmet.

Can't tell you how many bicycles I've ridden by that I KNOW that person could not have purchased - and unfortunately thru the many hands that bicycle passed down thru - it just looked beat, sigh. Sad too. I hate seeing a beat up bike. But now I think I'm getting a little away from the subject ...
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Old 02-09-08, 12:42 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Tude View Post
Ugh.
... unless this is directed at the people who ride a bicycle (note I refrain from calling them bicyclists) all over the street and have, many times, bags and bags of recycle cans on them ... not a helmet on them at all.

Hmmm, gives them an ability to be able to pull over people riding a bicycle - and no helmet.

Can't tell you how many bicycles I've ridden by that I KNOW that person could not have purchased - and unfortunately thru the many hands that bicycle passed down thru - it just looked beat, sigh. Sad too. I hate seeing a beat up bike. But now I think I'm getting a little away from the subject ...
No, you are right on topic.

Yeah, screw those losers, eh? Sic the hounds on 'em! Bet there are none of "those kind" in your "bicycling" club, or the Vancouver bicycling club, eh?
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Old 02-09-08, 12:53 PM
  #40  
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Sounds to me like like you guys up there in Vnacouver need to remove your government, by voting if possible, by force if needed.
Governments should fear the people's reprisal.
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Old 02-10-08, 01:11 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by iltb-2 View Post
No, you are right on topic.

Yeah, screw those losers, eh? Sic the hounds on 'em! Bet there are none of "those kind" in your "bicycling" club, or the Vancouver bicycling club, eh?
People recycling cans need to be pulled over by the police. Maybe we can even have the state exterminate them. It's just good, sound bicycling sense. After all they're not people, I mean bicyclists, are they?
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Old 02-10-08, 03:21 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
Sounds to me like like you guys up there in Vnacouver need to remove your government, by voting if possible, by force if needed.
Governments should fear the people's reprisal.
We'd love to, if anyone else wanted the job. Royce Pollard has run basically unopposed for a long time. He's an outspoken "advocate" of transit and cycling. He's also 86'd every light rail proposal to cross his path with ugly duckling options ("let's dig up the 80 year old streetcar tracks buried several feet below the surface of arterial roads and use them instead" was the latest), appointed three of the area's most vocal transit opponents to the local transit planning board, evicted our local transit system from all downtown properties (offices and the transit center), evicted the one Portland transit route that set foot in Vancouver, supported banning cyclists and pedestrians from certain surface roadways, on and on it goes.
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Old 02-10-08, 03:36 PM
  #43  
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not to mention support for the proposed new multibillion dollar I-5 Bridge, you know, the one without adequate provisions for transit, bicyclists and peds.

everyone commuting from Vancouver into Portland should be required to leave their car at the border, the worst drivers in Portland all have Washington plates on their vehicles.
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Old 02-10-08, 04:17 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by KnhoJ View Post
We'd love to, if anyone else wanted the job. Royce Pollard has run basically unopposed for a long time. He's an outspoken "advocate" of transit and cycling. He's also 86'd every light rail proposal to cross his path with ugly duckling options ("let's dig up the 80 year old streetcar tracks buried several feet below the surface of arterial roads and use them instead" was the latest), appointed three of the area's most vocal transit opponents to the local transit planning board, evicted our local transit system from all downtown properties (offices and the transit center), evicted the one Portland transit route that set foot in Vancouver, supported banning cyclists and pedestrians from certain surface roadways, on and on it goes.
Then you know what must be done. You should run for office.
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Old 02-10-08, 04:23 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by iltb-2 View Post
No, you are right on topic.

Yeah, screw those losers, eh? Sic the hounds on 'em!
For a guy who's not remotely familiar with Vancouver (not BC), Washington (not DC) you've absolutely nailed the situation! Really, hit us square on the head.

The Esther Short Neighborhood Association has been a key supporter of this legislation, following their recent victory in efforts to assist the Mayor in evicting our local transit provider from transit-owned downtown properties. They literally threw a party when this went through, and really did publish statements referring to "those people", being "unsightly", "lowering property values", "loitering" while they waited for a bus, and how awesome it is now that "those people" are gone, thanks to their efforts! A "major victory". Read it for yourself. Much of their planning and process is publicly documented.

They've also been griping in neighborhood meetings about "those people" riding bicycles around; they must be drunks who can't afford a car and will probably steal stuff or at least lower property values by being visible, thereby stealing this property value by proxy. They really, really talk and think this way, and are committed to act in ways they think will result in the eradication of unsightly people from public sight within their neighborhood. And they really do believe that the "homeless, drunk bicycle people" never wear helmets and will receive the blunt end of the law until they go away now that this has passed.

Originally Posted by iltb-2 View Post
Bet there are none of "those kind" in your "bicycling" club, or the Vancouver bicycling club, eh?
Absolutely right once again. I assume you've seen the club's website? They have a reputation as a group consisting partly of hammerheads, and partly of guys who can afford to try to buy performance they can't be bothered to exercise for. There are a few normal people in there, and it might have been nice if they had been given the opportunity to offer input about their sponsorship of this legislation. Unfortunately, the disposition of the members isn't consequential. If you go look through the club's website, you'll find that this sponsorship by the group was offered without consulting the group.
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Old 02-10-08, 04:34 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
Then you know what must be done. You should run for office.
I'm not even close to being qualified for that job! But I don't think it would be tough, even the rednecks don't like him after he spent millions "revitalizing" downtown. It's a beautiful place, but nobody wants to invest in destinations there. People do go there for the farmers market, and there's a movie theater as well. The only other major attractions are the 15 or 20 bars, pubs, and lounges, several pawn shops, the jail, the courthouse, the railyard, and a gorgeous park where the people who use these facilities can spend the night.
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Old 02-10-08, 04:50 PM
  #47  
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At least they've figured out how to recycle yoghurt and margarine tubs.



http://www.cityofvancouver.us/upload...etterJan08.pdf
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Old 02-10-08, 04:52 PM
  #48  
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does anyone know if the ordinance regarding helmet use has actually been voted on yet?
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Old 02-10-08, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KnhoJ View Post
For a guy who's not remotely familiar with Vancouver (not BC), Washington (not DC) you've absolutely nailed the situation! Really, hit us square on the head.
I may not know Vancouver, WA but I am familiar with the obvious class biases of some of the gentry that "gentrifies" a neighborhood; and the elitism and class snobbishness of many bicycling club members may be a stereotype, but this thread among others demonstrates that it is not an urban legend.
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Old 02-11-08, 02:20 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by KnhoJ View Post
We'd love to, if anyone else wanted the job. Royce Pollard has run basically unopposed for a long time. He's an outspoken "advocate" of transit and cycling. He's also 86'd every light rail proposal to cross his path with ugly duckling options ("let's dig up the 80 year old streetcar tracks buried several feet below the surface of arterial roads and use them instead" was the latest), appointed three of the area's most vocal transit opponents to the local transit planning board, evicted our local transit system from all downtown properties (offices and the transit center), evicted the one Portland transit route that set foot in Vancouver, supported banning cyclists and pedestrians from certain surface roadways, on and on it goes.
All of that is par for the course for American municipal politics. What's really shameful and odorous here is the 'club cyclists'' throwing their weight behind this anti-bicycling measure, just like the Cascade Cycling Club did for the King County MHL. If I were a member of either of those clubs I would send a short but colorfully worded cancellation notice.

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