Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Cyclist buzzed by snowplow PICTURES

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Cyclist buzzed by snowplow PICTURES

Old 02-14-08, 04:16 PM
  #101  
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,551
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1242 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by climbhoser View Post
For your stupidity an apology is insufficient. I need to see you getting your ass kicked. Only then will justice have been done.
Between Chipcom and climbhoser: I am pretty sure I know who would be getting the ass kicking!
CB HI is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 04:32 PM
  #102  
ccd rider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post

Whether or not he was going somewhere important or not is irrelevant. Snowplows have been running pretty much constantly here for the last two weeks. The biggest problem they have is parked cars.
I would be interested to see how many here have ever driven a big truck and plow? If you have, you would know that parked cars are a nuisance, but they are certainly not the biggest problem. A parked car is a static object. Once you resign yourself to their position on the roads/parking lots they are only a logistical issue.....ie from the standpoint of keeping the proper lateral distance and determining how the snow is rolling off the plow blade (so as not to leave a big ridge of snow next to them). True, you do have to watch for the renegade door opening.....or the suddenly appearing person (who was until that time stealthily undetected behind the vehicles). But that's precisely the point. Those are both dynamic issues. Movement is the scary stuff. You have to find that balance between keeping enough momentum to keep the snow moving (esp. when deeper snow exists) and being able to take evasive action (or at least attempt to do so) if necessary.

Not saying this particular scenario is in that category. If a plow driver has enough time to maneuver, then they must avoid whatever is on the road regardless of the legalities.....proving a point by (right or wrong in this case) coming that close is inexcusable. I have plowed snow for years and I have been frustrated beyond belief by the lack of courtesy (or just the plain ignorance of the dangers involved) of people you run across. But you have to turn the other cheek. You have an unbelievably powerful and potentially lethal weapon at your disposal......you can't use it like one just because you think you're in the right.

Just wanted to chime in based on my experiences from both sides. There are good plow drivers and bad ones.....the good ones understand they aren't going to have an ideal situation with which to plow, and accept responsibility for safety. And because of that I can vouch for the fact it is exhausting work. You have to be on extreme alert at all times, and it is mentally fatiguing.....particularly when the snow is relentless. I'm always amazed by the reaction of so many that plowing snow is some kind of glamorous and easy job. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've done some very labor intensive things in my position (groundskeeper on a college campus) and most times I would rather shovel snow than plow incessantly.

The other thing to consider is the likelihood the plow driver you engage (via bike, car, on foot, etc.) has been working long hours and waking up at all hours as well. Often times there are not sufficient budgets for relief by others (or if you are esp. good at it). Cut them some slack when you can.....most will do the same for you. Indignation may not bring you what you were hoping.
ccd rider is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 04:42 PM
  #103  
ghettocruiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't disagree with your experience, my reference to parked cars was based on what snow removal crews have been commenting on through the media here. Frequently.

Generally plows here have to operate in stop-and go traffic. A lot of the fleet here are actually road graders, perhaps for that inertia-killing reason.

I've never had any issues with any plow operators here, I should add, heck, they go out of there way to accommodate a lot of bad drivers and other road users.

Now those guys with the pick-up truck plows, on the other hand... well, they are a different story.

Last edited by ghettocruiser; 02-14-08 at 04:50 PM.
ghettocruiser is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 05:02 PM
  #104  
climbhoser
Senior Member
 
climbhoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: SS Surly Crosscheck; '91 Cannondale 3.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Between Chipcom and climbhoser: I am pretty sure I know who would be getting the ass kicking!

Do tell your convictions.

I'm no raging terrorist on my way to track down some random buffoon on the 'net just because he's missing a chromosome.

Besides, I never said I wanted to do the ass kicking (though I'd probably enjoy it and have no trouble with it) just that I need to see it done to feel as though his dues have been paid. I haven't a lick of tolerance for the inbred dickwads of this country like chipcom.
climbhoser is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 07:02 PM
  #105  
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dude. Calm down.
Chip is a cool guy.
Not to mention an ex marine and ex sheriff if memory serves me correctly.

You seem like a decent bloke but this is getting silly.
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 08:09 PM
  #106  
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,365

Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nice guys, meet em everywhere!
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 09:26 PM
  #107  
riddei
Needing more power Scotty
 
riddei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern New England (USA)
Posts: 588

Bikes: 2006 Trek T-80 (commuter) 1982 Bianchi SS (classic 12 speed)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey I made an Avatar

I think the reason this thread has gotten so much attention, and the cross-post in the ice biking sub forum has essentially gotten none, is the fact that the people here tend to bike with a purpose (if you will).

I for one am happy that it will be fairly nice tomorrow and I will be back on my bike for my commute! A lot of my colleagues have been without electricity for 48 hours with the ice after the snow. I'd take 3' of snow over a 1/4 inch of ice.

Either way, it takes common sense to know when to back off or not.
riddei is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 09:34 PM
  #108  
climbhoser
Senior Member
 
climbhoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: SS Surly Crosscheck; '91 Cannondale 3.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DataJunkie View Post
Dude. Calm down.
Chip is a cool guy.
Not to mention an ex marine and ex sheriff if memory serves me correctly.

You seem like a decent bloke but this is getting silly.
Ex-marine vs. All American wrestler...it'd be an interesting match up

I'm sure he has some hand to hand skills, and I have no doubt lots of discipline and American pride. I used to fight for a job is all...like I said, it'd be an interesting match up.

He's still a dumbass.
climbhoser is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 09:45 PM
  #109  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,720

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This would NEVER have happened if Mr Plow was on duty.
znomit is offline  
Old 02-14-08, 09:47 PM
  #110  
rukawa
Member
 
rukawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was walking down the street on a Saturday morning after a night of snow.. just to enjoy myself. Suddenly I heard someone honking from the distance. I turned to look and thought the truck was honking at some car. When I turned for the second time I realized it was a plow truck going full speed at me burying everything on the sidewalk behind me.

I quickly ran into a vacant parking lot 20 meters away for cover. He swooshed right past, the wave of snow could've easily buried me right on the sidewalk. Even at 20 meters away snow stilll splashed the hoses of my pants. I guess I could've taken the honking as 'please get out of the way..' since he doesn't have megaphones on his truck.
rukawa is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 09:45 AM
  #111  
newbojeff
Commuter First
 
newbojeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow...just wow. Plenty of bad behavior to go around here.

Bit of an aside, but it makes me think of what I've taught our kids. When it snows, my kids (and I) love playing outside, in front of our house, and in the street. Our street is a "U" off of another street so we get very little through traffic. Even given that, I've trained them to keep an ear and an eye out. If they see or hear a car, somebody yells "Car!" and we move out of the street. I have also taught them that snowplows are especially dangerous. If we even HEAR a snowplow in our neighborhood -- and for those of you in warmer climes, they make a ton of noise -- my kids know to just get out of the street. If the snowplows are out, visibility is bad, road conditions are bad, the driver is likely to be tired, and he has a job to do -- getting our street and all the others cleared of snow.

I have a mirror. If I see a snowplow working in my mirror, I am making sure there is plenty of room or I getting out of the street.

I try to cycle safe, smart, seriously, and courteously. I absolutely insist on my right to the road, but I find I get a lot more satisfaction out of cycling and probably have a more positive impact on automobile drivers when I interact with them in a friendly, constructive, productive way.
newbojeff is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 11:05 AM
  #112  
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,365

Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by climbhoser View Post
Ex-marine vs. All American wrestler...it'd be an interesting match up

I'm sure he has some hand to hand skills, and I have no doubt lots of discipline and American pride. I used to fight for a job is all...like I said, it'd be an interesting match up.

He's still a dumbass.
More like 48 year old combat veteran and ex-Olympic wrestler vs a wannabe, poor mannered big mouth kid. Not much of interest there. Who's your coach, kid, maybe I know him and I'm sure he'd be proud of your behavior in here.

Now go pick on some girls and leave the actual discussion to the adults.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 11:30 AM
  #113  
climbhoser
Senior Member
 
climbhoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: SS Surly Crosscheck; '91 Cannondale 3.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
48, eh? Sound like an old fart. Brittle and sour, easy to hurt.

Coaches WERE Chuck Kearny and Rick Stewart. Look 'em up.

Last edited by climbhoser; 02-15-08 at 11:37 AM.
climbhoser is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 12:06 PM
  #114  
lil brown bat
Senior Member
 
lil brown bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston (sort of)
Posts: 3,878

Bikes: 1 road, 1 Urban Assault Vehicle

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
Good questions. My thoughts on the matter and what problem that I am trying to address is I hear of too many cases that the drivers POV can be paraphrased "Since the cyclists is not supposed to be in the road it is ok for me to run them off the road."
And that's a totally legit subject for discussion, even (maybe especially) on the commuting forum, where we're using the road to perform an inarguably necessary function (getting to work). I'm not sure, though, that a discussion of this situation is really helped by the automatic, knee-jerk expression of the "other side" of the more generalized issue. Saying that cyclists (and motorists, and pedestrians) need to give way to other vehicles in certain situations doesn't call into question a cyclist's right to use the road; therefore, it's a strawman argument that detracts from a discussion of what is reasonable and prudent behavior for a cyclist in this situation. That's all.

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
I totally agree that the cyclists behavior is not what I would do or encourage others to do but the snow plow drivers behavior is just as bad if not worse.
I don't think that point is all that relevant, for two reasons:
  1. Children use the "Yeah, but HE..." "argument" to try to get over with Mom for their bad behavior. Adults recognize that I don't get a pass on my bad because of your bad, unless I can argue that your bad causes my bad. If my bad is merely in response to your bad, I need to grow up.
  2. We're not snowplow drivers. We're the ones on the bikes. We have 100% control over our own behavior, rather less so over the behavior of others. If what you want is to ride safely, the answer isn't always to fly into battle to try and get someone else to be a better person -- sometimes it starts with modifying your own behavior, within reason.

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
For argument sake lets say the cyclist is a total jerk and since he is a jerk people should be free to physically assault and harass him as he is only getting what he deserves for being a jerk.
You are the only person who's saying that. Please stop projecting that view onto others.

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
Having been in some negotiations with the local bus service I can say the same attitude that has been expressed here that common sense should dictate that the cyclist get out of the way is also expressed by a lot of bus drivers and their management and that attitude is really hard to fight and win.
But what would a "win" look like? A statement of, "Oh, you're right, it's perfectly okay for cyclists to go wherever they want, at whatever speed they want, and not move over even if they're going slower than a bus with 60 people on board and they have plenty of room to do so"?

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
I'll agree that this case is not a good case to gain sympathy for cyclists rights but I would not be so quick to put all the fault the cyclists and just leave it at that.
No one "put all the fault the cyclists". That's a strawman.
lil brown bat is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 12:49 PM
  #115  
climbhoser
Senior Member
 
climbhoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: SS Surly Crosscheck; '91 Cannondale 3.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
More like 48 year old combat veteran and ex-Olympic wrestler vs a wannabe, poor mannered big mouth kid. Not much of interest there. Who's your coach, kid, maybe I know him and I'm sure he'd be proud of your behavior in here.

Now go pick on some girls and leave the actual discussion to the adults.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._United_States

No "Ciammaichella."

FYI, I wasn't bluffin' ya. Good to know you've got a poker face, old man.
climbhoser is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 12:58 PM
  #116  
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,601

Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by climbhoser View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._United_States

No "Ciammaichella."

FYI, I wasn't bluffin' ya. Good to know you've got a poker face, old man.
Can you guys go discuss who is more manly outside of the thread? (Sorry chipcom, it's not necessarily you but your counterpart is annoying and this keeps getting further from the topic).
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 01:35 PM
  #117  
The Human Car
-=Barry=-
 
The Human Car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lil brown bat View Post
Originally Posted by The Human Car
I totally agree that the cyclists behavior is not what I would do or encourage others to do but the snow plow drivers behavior is just as bad if not worse.
I don't think that point is all that relevant, for two reasons:

1. Children use the "Yeah, but HE..." "argument" to try to get over with Mom for their bad behavior. Adults recognize that I don't get a pass on my bad because of your bad, unless I can argue that your bad causes my bad. If my bad is merely in response to your bad, I need to grow up.
I'm not following the first point, cyclist bad for riding in road causes snow plow drivers bad = snow plow driver needs to grow up.

Originally Posted by lil brown bat View Post
You are the only person who's saying that. Please stop projecting that view onto others.
Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge View Post
For God's sake, there's a difference between *having* a right, and exercising it to the point of stupidity. If you're riding in the snow and you notice a plow coming behind you, just work with the guy to negotiate a safe pass. The poor guy has a job to do and you have no desire to get the ugly side of a snowplow.

Let him around and enjoy the lovely, freshly plowed road. And hell, draft off him. You got yourself a free tow truck.

Oh, and as the story says, the guy rides with two cameras running constantly because he's done this act before. Methinks somebody's got some issues.
As one example here, though on investigation I think I am reacting more to comments on the blog.

Originally Posted by lil brown bat View Post
But what would a "win" look like? A statement of, "Oh, you're right, it's perfectly okay for cyclists to go wherever they want, at whatever speed they want, and not move over even if they're going slower than a bus with 60 people on board and they have plenty of room to do so"?
Man for somebody who is down on strawman arguments that's a whooper. The law specifies that cyclists stay right and faster MotorVs pass safely/far on the left. A win reinforces the motorVs responsibilities, it does not negate the cyclists responsibilities.

I will also note that the MAJOR problem with buses is with cyclists that are already traveling too far right. If we could physically and legally ride over parked cars to accommodate buses I am sure we would but if we are already as far over as we can be buses should not be harassing us.

On the cyclists side I will note that that there are many situations with buses where moving to the LEFT is the more appropriate option.

Originally Posted by lil brown bat View Post
No one "put all the fault the cyclists". That's a strawman.
I give you that my paraphrasing of that position is not the best.
__________________
Cycling Advocate
http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
. . . o
. . /L
=()>()
The Human Car is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 01:36 PM
  #118  
The Human Car
-=Barry=-
 
The Human Car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul L. View Post
Can you guys go discuss who is more manly outside of the thread? (Sorry chipcom, it's not necessarily you but your counterpart is annoying and this keeps getting further from the topic).
I'll second this.
__________________
Cycling Advocate
http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
. . . o
. . /L
=()>()
The Human Car is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 02:01 PM
  #119  
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,365

Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by climbhoser View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._United_States

No "Ciammaichella."

FYI, I wasn't bluffin' ya. Good to know you've got a poker face, old man.
Ahh, college education but didn't learn history. To put an end to your little pecker-size contest...you should be able to find my contact info pretty easily, since you found my name...so if you feel froggy, come on out and jump. In the meantime, your silliness and rudeness is bothering folks, so if you got something to say on topic, other than vagasil cracks, we're holding our breaths in anticipation of your incisive insight.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 02:13 PM
  #120  
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
I'll second this.
Third.

Doesn't this site have mods?
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 03:20 PM
  #121  
DynamicD74
Senior Member
 
DynamicD74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 'Burbs
Posts: 387

Bikes: ' 96 Trek 830 Mountain Track,'74 Schwinn Suburban, '74-ish Fuji Dynamic 10, '73 Schwinn Varsity,'73 Schwinn Breeze, '94 Schwinn Sidewinder. First Schwinn was a '74 Schwinn 24 inch Varsity in Lime Green, and previously owned a '74 Schwinn Breeze

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by riddei View Post
Raleigh [NC] average annual snowfall is 2.4 inches per year.
Raleigh [NC] average temperature is 59.8 degrees F.
The average low temperature is 47 degrees F.
The average high temperature is 70 degrees F.


Source: http://www.usacitiesonline.com/nccou...gh.htm#climate
Speaking as someone who lives in the Raleigh, NC area, I'm not sure I get your point. Keep in mind that a large number of us are not natives of the area, and in fact, many of us are from NY state, New England and the midwestern US, where we have frequently seen and have had to navigate large amts. of snow and sometimes, blizzards, before relocating to Raleigh. I think I remember JeffS asking about LBS in Raleigh when he first relocated here. So, he's not a native of Raleigh either. And, as you stated in a subsequent post, this is the commuting forum, not the weather channel or the travel channel. However, having said all that, you should consider visiting Raleigh during one of your predicted snowstorms. I think you would appreciate our mid-60's temperatures we have today, with our bright sunshine i.e. fabulous bicycling weather!

Last edited by DynamicD74; 02-15-08 at 03:53 PM.
DynamicD74 is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 04:30 PM
  #122  
lil brown bat
Senior Member
 
lil brown bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston (sort of)
Posts: 3,878

Bikes: 1 road, 1 Urban Assault Vehicle

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
I'm not following the first point, cyclist bad for riding in road causes snow plow drivers bad = snow plow driver needs to grow up.
That's not what I said or implied. The point is that the "Yeah, but HE did so and so!" "argument" is used by whiny children to try and divert attention to someone else's transgression (which in no way caused or, in this case, even contributed to the whiner's own transgression). The plow driver's bad behavior did not cause or contribute to the cyclist's bad behavior.

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
As one example here, though on investigation I think I am reacting more to comments on the blog.
I think you are. The example you cited was:

For God's sake, there's a difference between *having* a right, and exercising it to the point of stupidity. If you're riding in the snow and you notice a plow coming behind you, just work with the guy to negotiate a safe pass. The poor guy has a job to do and you have no desire to get the ugly side of a snowplow.

Let him around and enjoy the lovely, freshly plowed road. And hell, draft off him. You got yourself a free tow truck.

Oh, and as the story says, the guy rides with two cameras running constantly because he's done this act before. Methinks somebody's got some issues.
Now, I'm sure you don't really mean to claim that this is an example of someone saying, "For argument sake lets say the cyclist is a total jerk and since he is a jerk people should be free to physically assault and harass him as he is only getting what he deserves for being a jerk."?

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
Man for somebody who is down on strawman arguments that's a whooper. The law specifies that cyclists stay right and faster MotorVs pass safely/far on the left. A win reinforces the motorVs responsibilities, it does not negate the cyclists responsibilities.
That works in the general case. It doesn't work in this case. Where's the "win" here? What would that look like?

Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
I will also note that the MAJOR problem with buses is with cyclists that are already traveling too far right. If we could physically and legally ride over parked cars to accommodate buses I am sure we would but if we are already as far over as we can be buses should not be harassing us.

On the cyclists side I will note that that there are many situations with buses where moving to the LEFT is the more appropriate option.
I was just gonna say, I've found that you often get better coexistence with buses by getting left, at least in city traffic with relatively low speeds and frequent stops. They are, after all, frequently trying to get right.
lil brown bat is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 05:13 PM
  #123  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
IMO this thread got so long and off topic with bashing that it feels like it should belong in A&S.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 06:15 PM
  #124  
riddei
Needing more power Scotty
 
riddei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern New England (USA)
Posts: 588

Bikes: 2006 Trek T-80 (commuter) 1982 Bianchi SS (classic 12 speed)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DynamicD74 View Post
Speaking as someone who lives in the Raleigh, NC area, I'm not sure I get your point. ... ...However, having said all that, you should consider visiting Raleigh during one of your predicted snowstorms. I think you would appreciate our mid-60's temperatures we have today, with our bright sunshine i.e. fabulous bicycling weather!
I've been to Raleigh, it is one of the few places in the south I would consider moving! However it's too far from the ocean for me.

Having said that, early in this thread I thought it ironic that the OP was from Vegas, and people from the south were chiming in. It just kinda struck a chord that someone said we must have such an inferiority complex that we couldn't leave the driveway. My five layers of synthetic clothing in sub zero *F commuting arse took offence. That and I'm jealous of your climate .
riddei is offline  
Old 02-15-08, 06:46 PM
  #125  
sfcrossrider
Senior Member
 
sfcrossrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,760

Bikes: Steelman eurocross, Surly CrossCheck, IRO Rob Roy...

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Did someone say rice cakes?!?!?!?!
sfcrossrider is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.