closetbiker

driving in a bike lane and driving across a bike lane are 2 different things, and those barriers do not prevent a driver from making a turn.

Besides, when does California law apply in British Columbia?

Helmet Head

Yes, and the law addresses both: "Whenever it is necessary for the driver of a motor vehicle to cross a bicycle lane that is adjacent to his lane of travel to make a turn, the driver shall drive the motor vehicle into the bicycle lane prior to making the turn"

In other words, if the turn you're going to make (say into a driveway) will require you to drive across an adjacent bike lane, then you have to drive into the bike lane prior to making the turn. In other words, it's not like crossing an adjacent sidewalk (to drive into a garage, say) at all.

Oregon law, by the way, is opposite. It requires motorists to treat bike lanes like sidewalks. They are never allowed to drive into them, and may only cross them (like you cross a sidewalk).

Never, of course. I was just pointing out that the type of barriers illustrated in the photos, if implemented in California, would make it impossible for drivers to make legal right turns that require crossing adjacent bike lanes.

closetbiker

What I get from your post is if these lanes were in California, the situation might be different when drivers are turning, based on a picture. Hmmmmm...

Those barriers do not prevent a driver from making a right turn, and do not require a driver to move into the bike lane to make the turn, even if they were in California.

is that the situation we're discussing here? I thought we were talking about drivers drivers swerving into the bike lane, or drivers driving along in the bike lane, not drivers making a turn at an intersection.

Do drivers do this by choice, or are they even aware that they shouldn't use the lane? Why is it I see drivers move out of their designated lane of travel on a regular basis? Are they that inattentive? I think they are. I know I can stay in my lane while I drive and so can David. Maybe drivers just are so inattentive the don't care if they drift. Maybe they are so adverse to slowing down in a turn, they can't control their vehicles.

horse&bikerider

ONly been riding bikes for 2 years which is nothing compared to many of you.

I have fallen hard for putting in 2-3 rides a week at small does of 10-20 as my business does not allow for much more currently.

Begrudgingly admit I was not also as aware as I should have been when I drove before I started biking such as right turns in parking lots and what not, I know wait for the bike riders having been in that situation more and in other situations as well.

HOWEVER and with a BIG car drivers are not the only ones driving or riding like morons. I have given up the loop in portola Valley not because of cars but because of really scary bike groups on the weekend who pretty much will attack cars by slapping when passing coming down hwy 84 and other places, run stop lights on Sandhill, Alpine roads not to mentioned HAVE NO CLUE what stopping at a stop sign means.

I stick to a loop in Santa Cruz which is a little less nuts but as a example today watched as three bikes blew through lights (now why should they not get $300 tickets?) I stopped clicked out and it is a pain but dying is not on my wish list. I am thoroughly sick of people tending to blame cars when I wish I had a video to show bike riders breaking laws and being inconsiderate also.

Helmet Head

My point is that California law requires motorists to drive in bike lanes as they approach a place where they are turning right, and the barriers pictured, which appear to have been erected at spots where drivers turn right, if erected in California, would prevent right turning motorists from entering the bike lane, which they are legally required to do.

Pictures 2 and 4 in post #38 show the barriers placed precisely to keep right turning motorists from entering the bike lane.

There are natural lines of travel on roads. Engineers try to paint stripes consistent with those natural lines. Each of us can probably identify a place where drivers regularly drive contrary to the placement of painted guidance on the roadway - those are all examples where the painted guidance is contrary to the natural lines of travel. We're just more sensitive to these situations when the painted guidance that is contrary to natural lines of travel happens to be a bike lane stripe.

Helmet Head

I think a much larger proportion of cyclists is disobeying the rules of the road much more often than are motorists.
Some people argue that motorists have a greater responsibility to follow the rules of the road because they have the greater potential to harm others. Maybe so, but that does not justify the blatant cyclist scofflaw behavior that you describe (and no, I'm not talking about an early red light violation by the tail end of a group, which is no more serious than an early red light violation by the tail end of a tractor trailer), and we all see all too often.

closetbiker

1) Glad I don't live in California...

2) and I'm glad they do...

3) There is plenty of width to stay inside the lane

bkaapcke

"Bicyclist" is the word they don't understand. bk

scarry

What can be done? Peak Oil will take care of car culture as the price of fuel rises out of reach of most motorists.

JusticeZero

Yes, and Oregon is rapidly becoming famous for stacking their dead cyclists up by the dozen because of that law.

DavidWhiting

Thanks for all the kind words! And thanks to those of you who checked out other stuff on my site. Let's hope discussions like these also raise non-cyclist awareness that there are real people behind the bright spandex! (I'll get back to you who have emailed me.)

merider1

Just jumping in to report that I had four automobiles turn left in front of me today on my 50 miler (I was in a bike lane on Riverside Drive in Sherman Oaks, CA). All four looked right at me as they were turning, didn't brake in the least, and then just turned their heads as they say me brake hard to avoid them. I'd like to say that I didn't scream out a few choice words, but I'd had it today. As it is, cars park in the bike lane so that you have to ride over the white line into traffic a bit, in case a car door is opened.

Sometimes, it boils my blood and other times it just depresses me - mostly, I try to avoid heavily trafficked roads. You just have to ride defensively and stay 100% alert.

Helmet Head

Four left crosses on one ride???!!! If I had four left crosses in less than two years I'd wonder what I was doing wrong.

Looking at you does not mean noticing you.
Looking at you does not mean noticing you.
Looking at you does not mean noticing you.

You need to be grabbing their attention, and you obviously are not.
Are you riding in the bike lane, near the curb, as you approach and enter the intersection, or are you further left towards the center of the road, about where a motorcyclist would be riding? The latter is what I do to almost eliminate (can't totally eliminate it - but 4 per ride is way, way more than you should be getting) left crosses (as well as right hooks and right crosses), and highly recommend.

StrangeWill

I've had people do it while I was in my car, and thats 2000lbs of steel and bright lights that is taking an entire bloody lane, it doesn't have to do with lane positioning or any other elitist bull****.

Script

Agree,agree,agree!

I may not always, but in principle we're on the same page. (In my opinion)

merider1

Um, dude...first off, you don't live where I do. I was IN THE BIKE LANE, not in the center of the road (did you read my post?) And NO, it had nothing to do with me not "grabbing" their attention. Unless, you're suggesting I ride with my breasts exposed.

StrangeWill

You don't get it, Helmut has this thing with "taking the lane", and that because you're not asserting your authori-tai by taking the lane; that it's your fault for them crossing in front of you like that.

Welcome to the bull**** that is A&S, enjoy your stay.

merider1

Well, Helmut doesn't live in the area I do. There is no way I would feel safe taking the lane on Riverside Drive by the Fashion Square Mall (it was bumper to bumper traffic and people's nerves clearly frayed). As for the four drivers who crossed in front of me, they did so, I believe, because they saw a break in traffic and figued they could beat a cyclist. They noticed me but didn't care.

As for A&S, I've heard of it's reputation. I'm still not dissuaded from visiting from time to time.

Bekologist

Don't listen to head.....

I've had motorists overloook me while riding squarely in the travel lane. any bicyclist that has ridden any amount of miles has experienced the same situation.... being overlooked REGARDLESS of road position.

ChipSeal

-Helmet Head post #45

Not to mention creating a physical hazard to the cyclist as well.

ChipSeal

Because motorists have a moral and legal duty to pass slower vehicles with due care and in a safe manner.

genec

And doesn't a cyclist have the same moral and legal obligations to pedestrians?

LittleBigMan

A bike lane is a bike-only lane. Motorists are not allowed there.

By the same token, cyclists must be allowed to use all traffic lanes even when alternatives are present, despite the restrictions placed on motorists to avoid bike lanes. It's a basic right that cyclists must not be denied.

Just like high-occupancy vehicles have exclusive rights to HOV lanes in Georgia, cyclists have exclusive rights to bike lanes, but should never be restricted to them.

dynodonn 

Yes they do, but a 125 to 200 lbs person on a 15 to 25 lbs bike hitting a ped generally doesn't carry any where near the physical consequences of a 125 to 200 lbs person in a 3000 to 5000 lbs vehicle hittiing a bicyclist at the same speed difference.

gpsblake

Good point. A driveway for example could create a problem... because the car would first have to stop to check bicycle traffic... then would have to stop to check motor traffic which would make the car block the bicycle lane. Especially if cars are parked the way they are in the photos supplied.