Markok765

Also, the video was very informative! I am gonna try riding on the left tomorrow, and may try some red light things!

JoeyBike

You are obviously a confident, experienced cyclist. No doubt you can't easily be bullied on the road and know when to hog a whole lane and when to give an inch to a motorist. So whatever rules of the road you choose to obey, you will be fine out there. I doubt that you traverse every intersection legally and happily, but maybe you do. You already knew everything I mentioned here if you biked at all in NYC. I applaud the fact that you can happily conform to the rules as they exist.

I find that the less skilled the cyclist, the more likely they are to be killed in the right hand gutter. I hope that some newbie or wannabe commuters see my vids and get the whole story and take it or leave it. Simply obeying written laws does not make a person safe in traffic. People are generally smart and will pick out the useful parts of my style and avoid what freaks them out.

What do you think would happen to a newbie riding a bike down Broadway (Manhattan Island) at rush hour in the right hand lane obeying all traffic laws? Would that be pleasurable or fun? Safe? But what if it were legal to split lanes and treat stop lights as yield signs? I bet it would be scary but safer. And there are already cities and towns all over the world who agree with me and have implemented more of a common sense approach to lawmaking for bike travel.

crhilton

I have a little concern you're going to turn into a statistic. And I don't think this method of riding scales, and since I want to see cycling increase by an order of magnitude I'm concerned about scalability. I bet more motorists see you then you realize, especially when you filter and then run a red light. And that's when it'll offend them most.

Peds jay walking do so at their own risk, I'm thinking of those crossing in a crosswalk with the walk sign.

JoeyBike

1. When the light turns green, you better be a strong sprinter. Being "in the way" of traffic at a green light (sometimes BEFORE the light turns green) will get horns blowing and bumpers dangerously close to your rear wheel, if not squeezing you into the curb or throwing something at you.

2. We have a crime problem here. Stopping a bike at a light is just what every crack-head is waiting for. I don't need a cracked skull or a stolen bike.

3. If you are not passing on the right, you must be passing on the left? That puts you in the center lane at least does it not? That is one of my biggest points here - staying clear of that right lane in certain situations, especially newbies. Far right for cyclists capable of holding the speed limit is just silly. And that puts me waiting for red lights in the center or left lane. Motorists would not have a clue how to handle that here.

4. We do not have turning lanes here for the most part. You stop your bike in the right lane at a red and every car behind you wanting to turn right on red will be really pissed and maybe assault you.

5. If you (a cyclist) are stopped at a red in New Orleans, and a garbage truck runs over you with both wheels, then backs up and does it again, they won't even get a ticket.

I could go on and on, but I am tired.

Latah,

-Joey

JoeyBike

You know how badly I could get hurt hitting a ped a 20+ mph? Not only do I not want to hurt someone doing nothing wrong, self preservation keeps me vigilant to peds. I will admit to one close call with a law abiding ped in the past few years. I did not like that feeling at all.

EatMyA**

ouch! zeytoun 1. socalboomer 0

WARNING: zeytoun; further use of logic on an internet discussion will result in an infraction

Bacciagalupe

FYI, I wasn't a particularly skilled cyclist when I was in New Orleans; at that time I was merely an average bike commuter. I've done a lot more long distance riding - and gotten more consciously careful - in recent years.

If you're going to make claims about locations and causes of crashes and fatalities, I'd prefer to see some statistics. Here's the New York City one. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from it.


I wasn't a "strong sprinter," and rarely had / have cars honking at me or riding up on my wheel.

And if they honk, so what? They aren't going to run you over. Or you move enough to let them turn.


I lived in the 9th Ward, back in the days when priests got killed during muggings and corrupt cops whacked people who were going to testify against them. Not quite as bad as it is now, but not as far off as you might think -- #1 in murders in the US, hundreds of murders in one set of projects alone, people routinely talking about inviting the National Guard to step in, pretty much everyone I knew had gotten mugged, neighbors refused to walk around the 9th Ward at night, etc.

I only had one event that I would even remotely consider a mugging attempt while on my bike. Guess what it was? Some kid tried to grab at my bike, at the railroad tracks on the border of the Marigny and the Bywater. While I was riding right past him. In broad daylight.

On a side note, even after that little incident I felt about 1,000 times in the Bywater at night when I was on my bike than when I was a pedestrian.

I know things are tough down in New Orleans these days, but I find it hard to believe there are crackheads waiting to jump you at every single stop light and corner -- or that they wouldn't go after pedestrians and/or steal parked bikes instead.

And while jumping lights is a somewhat trivial offense, I really don't see how more anarchy and lawlessness is what New Orleans needs these days.


Generally speaking, "passing on the right" is unexpected, and therefore presents a slightly elevated risk. Obviously that's negligible if the cars are stopped, but worth noting if the cars are in motion and you don't want to get nailed by a right hook.

Otherwise, I'm with you on this one; there are times when you have to take the lane, or go to the left to make a left turn. Which, as far as I can tell, are within the confines of the laws:

"Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as near to the right-hand side of the roadway as practicable, exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction." (emphasis added)

This does not mean "stay in the right lane at all times or else." I.e. you can take the lane if it's not safe to ride in the gutter. Perhaps the law could be a little more explicit, but that seems more like a tweak than a wholesale rewrite.


So a sharp guy like you can't figure out how to stop at a light, and give a car room to turn?

And if it's so hard, then why are so many people able to do it without jumping every single light and stop sign?

I'm not going to paint out New Orleans to be a cyclists' paradise, even though it is rather flat. But for whatever reason(s), my bike commuting experiences were nowhere near as antagonistic as yours. I never feared intentional assault by a driver -- and I still don't.


Ahh, New Orleans. I remember how at the end of Mardi Gras, a sanitation worker asked a cop in an unmarked police car to move his vehicle so they could clean up; apparently the cops beat the snot out of the guy. I don't recall reading anything about any disciplinary actions, either. Maybe the sanitation & police departments aren't as chummy as you think?

It may be possible that if someone hits you while you're at a light and it's totally their fault, it won't be well enforced and they'll get a slap on the wrist. However, the entire criminal justice system down there seems pretty screwed, so somehow I doubt that even if your perception is correct, this is the only form of injustice in NO.

More importantly though, I'd want a factual basis for any such claim, rather than a general impression based on anecdotes or suppositions.

socalboomer

so you don't have the information you implied you had in your previous post:

You said same risks per mile - closely related to incidents per 1000 rider hours (or per rider/hour - same difference). Even incidents per 1000 riders. I'd be happy with any actual data that you may have.

regarding the first link - I can't find the actual study. However, no data means that there is no corroboration possible. Also - they come to conclusions on data that they admit is insufficient. Bad practice. I can't tell if they corrected for traffic speed, location and type of the incident (was it in an intersection, was it side contact, frontal contact (contra-traffic), door opening, etc.) - nothing.

regarding the second - it was only about bicycle messengers, which we can assume would be more skilled and experienced urban cyclists. 47 injuries resulting in days away from work per 100 couriers. . . compared to the national average of THREE and the highest rate (obviously other than the couriers) being FIFTEEN in the meet packing industry. The majority of incidents being collisions (and collision avoidance) - 66%. Hmmm. . . it's not looking good for this type of rider.

so, according to your analysis, nearly half of the couriers having a work stopping work-related injury PER YEAR shouldn't be considered really all that high. . . when it's more than three times higher than the next highest. Hmm.


Honestly, you gave me a report that I would happily use AGAINST you, and another that I would laugh you off the floor with if you tried to actually use it.

Blue Order

I laugh.

aMull

Nice videos, i regularly run lights and have done so for years. No way am i waiting like a ****** for an empty street.

JoeyBike

I'll make that Reason #6 for not stopping! Thanks

Hey, do you know Traffic Jammer up there in Toronto?

stevo9er

Apart from Dobber's comment I can't believe how civil the thread has been. I can understand Joey's wanting to be safe, I just worry that it might provoke some redneck to later buzz some other more tame cyclist later on; not to say that Joey would be responsible for that though.

Great video, did you get inspiration to cycle like that from other cyclists, videos on the internet, or just from your experiences in cycling?

socalboomer

so, Zey, lets do some comparative data, shall we?

According to the CPSC study done in 1991 (huge, massive study) - link is https://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/344.pdf) the overall percentage of injured riders in the age group 25-44 (which I think would be at least comparable to our scofflaw messengers, right? Comparison would be worse for you at 15-24. . .) is 13.4% - meaning that 13.4% of riders are injured in any single year.

However, your data indicates that 45% of your messengers are injured in any given year, serious enough injuries to create a loss of work. The incidental injuries could easily be higher - making that 13.4% (which includes all injuries, btw) look strangely low compared to our expert, experienced messengers.

so, there must be some reason why those messengers would have such a high percentage?

here's a couple of innocent ones - they ride in a crowded, urban environment; they put in far more hours/miles of riding

however, there are far more possible sinister ones - they run red lights, they ride on sidewalks, they ride in contra-traffic fashion, they ride in ways that are counter to the rest of traffic.

For some of these, we have no data (unless you have some - I'm still looking).

However, the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System study (included) showed that there was no significant correlation between relative risks of injury (bicycle) between those living/riding in suburbs and those living/riding in urban areas. Hmmm - seeming to indicate that riding in a crowded urban environ does not necessarily mean more dangerous, in itself.

Hmmm - going to keep reading - it's long.

stevo9er

It probably has to do with more cyclists in the 25-44 age group in general. How old are most of the commuters you see? Outside of major cities you don't see very many messengers anyways, I am guessing it is a very small group of riders overall.

JoeyBike

I figured out about 80 percent of it myself. "Common sense" told me at 15 yrs old that it was silly to wait around for a red light with a clear street while cycling. I hate losing momentum much less stopping. Over the years I refined and learned. Friends would fill me in on certain intersection tricks too.

The other 20 percent improvement in my technique (things I would have NEVER thought of myself) came from the Internet and helmet cam alleycat races. I would see someone make a slick move and connect that move with a similar intersection or situation that I encounter.

I love Lucas Brunell's stuff. https://www.digave.com/videos
Especially Drag Race NYC, Monster Track V, and London Calling. I refined lots of moves from viewing those vids too along with dozens of other vids on the web. But I was pretty good before the web vids. Lucas definitely inspired my helmet cam addiction.

JoeyBike

Hey now! I prefer the term "Freedom Fighter"

genec

Good luck making it to 30.

JoeyBike

I made 50 in April smarty.

J A Holman

So ideally a predictable, well known system with alert, responsive actors is what is had, or wanted.

And your answer is to trash both, for all road users?

You are incorrect. Given the number of road users in the US what prevents accidents is the system by which you are all required to operate your vehicles. What causes accidents is when someone fails to observe those rules in conjunction with failing to observe their surroundings.

50 years old and a pretend bike messenger in New Orleans? Wow.

I feel for you buddy.

Why not organize a CM? One idiot zipping through lights is no kind of a statement, a crowd is a much squeakier wheel.

Let me guess, you're too cool to hang with the likes of people who would do a CM, whether courteous or critical?

Thought so.

Or you don't have the stones to organize ..anything? But you're devoted to your cause of changing the law.



Joey's law - The most likely change of the law that could arise from Joey's chosen methods.

A driver upon striking a bicyclist in an intersection of a roadway shall be held immune from prosecution or civil action and reimbursed any damage to the vehicle by the family or the estate of the cyclist.

---That---- is the sort of response your behaviour will warrant from your government made up of your peers.

If you haven't figured out the system in 50 years, take a clue, read a history book, something.

J A Holman

Zeytoun given that bike messengers do a great deal of their cycling in heavy traffic areas, are not able to conform to specified routes as they must go where they are dispatched when they are dispatched, it is clear that they face a number of risks more often than the average cyclist or even the not so average.

Most cyclists avoid the areas they are required to operate in, if it is at all possible. The traffic they brave would be a serious implement to cycling everywhere if that were the traffic to be had everywhere.

Regarding "solo" accidents, many of these will still be the result of the reaction of the cyclist to other road users i.e. a cyclist scofflaw or not that crashes to avoid a vehicle in any manner and successfully has just been in a solo accident.

Among the messengers we have here the scofflaws are few at least. Maybe in America or New Orleans where they have fewer messengers they feel a greater need to try and be cool by riding inefficiently.

JoeyBike

Where did that come from? I don't recall mentioning bike messengers. From what I have seen in bike messenger documentaries, half of them are losers that can't do anything else (except maybe suicide) and the other half are just trying to make a buck so they can finish school of do something other than be a messenger. I respect their abilities but do not hope to be one or pretend to be one. Plus I cant stand to wear a messenger bag!

Critical Mass, in my opinion, only serves to make motorists hate the cycling community. Blocking traffic is EXACTLY the opposite of my goal. I want motorists and video watchers to see just how effective a bicycle in skilled hands can be in congested traffic area and how stupid motorists look sitting at the same red light through three or four cycles with tanks full of (nearly) $5/gallon fuel.

CM definitely ain't my thing. And it's not the answer to endearing motorists to the cycling community - but the opposite.

thebarerider

I have no problem with your riding style. It's fun to watch and you've obviously been doing it safely for many years.

My question to you is, if you were in a different environment, how would you ride? I would have no reason to ride like you in my area because traffic flows smoothly and is much lighter. The only backup occurs on the main road at rush hours and when a train comes through town. I stop at lights and signs and generally act as a car, but I think if I lived in an urban environment I would ride more like you do in congested areas.

genec

Great, and you've been riding like this the whole time? OK so you had lots of luck on your side. I stopped riding anything like this 21 years ago when my son was born, and even then it was nowhere near what you chose to do.

But the bottom line is that with your 35 years experience, indeed you might be good at this, but that is hardly any reason to expect inexperienced cyclist to look at your videos and be as successful as you.

You are promoting an accident waiting to happen... if not for you, for someone that just doesn't do it as well as you.

PLyTheMan

Thanks for the video, Joey! You did a really great job of explaining why it's better to keep in the middle of the road and split lanes as opposed to riding on the right and reasoning behind running reds; although I wouldn't advise people to run them while there's still traffic running through the intersection, to each his own.

More-so I'm impressed with your general attitude and creed, you seem to be a smart guy that has his beliefs all in line without contradictions. Best of luck to you and stay safe! (and keep the vids coming)

hnsq

Joey, you might be safe doing this, but you DO cut off other cars, and you DO make it more dangerous for others on the road. Like them or not, laws give some sort of uniformity to a system. I read your entire blog, and you have absolutely no respect for anyone else. It seems what you are lacking is common human decency. Even if a cager is treating us like crap, that is absolutely no reason to break laws. Even if the laws don't make sense, that isn't a reason to break them. Every time you ride, you are pissing people off, and that is absolutely not the right way to promote change. Many times when I get to a 4 way stop sign, I stop and let a cager who got there after me go first. Yes, I lose momentum, but that driver realizes that not all bikers are disrespectful as*holes. The problems you address are serious problems for us, but there are much better methods of addressing them.

It just really bothers me how little respect you seem to have for people not like yourself.