JackTheLadd

Apparently they are ticketed people coming onto a flat spot just after a hill.

It doesn't sound like they're using much discretion, just racking up the revenue for the city.

I was out for a ride this morning, and took a few pics of the Calgary trails I'm riding. The lack of other trail users is not a lucky break, they are empty most of the time. Of course there are places where slower speeds are required, just in case, but in general a 20kmph limit is crazy.

EthanYQX

I'm not sure I'd stop for a "bylaw officer", on foot or on a bike, assuming I could get off the MUP quickly. It would of course be stupid to run on the path.

EDIT: Requiring reflectors is stupid. I defenitely would try and avoid stopping for that.

dobber

Wow



I've been riding the Barge Canal trail here in the Rochester area. When you combine the weekend roadies, the tris in training, the faux messengers, Huffy Herds along with roller bladers, walkers and everyone else, you can clearly see the need for some type of control.

Speed limits need to be set for the lowest common denominator, in this case, walkers.

Wanna go fast, go ride on the road where you belong.

rajman

Nice pics. I routinely go faster than 20 km/h on stretches like those. (Is that on Nose Creek?)

Any chance they could have bike cops doing the ticketing? I've seen them talking to people on the recreational trails in Toronto - it seems that bike cops would be in a position to know what's safe or not better than officers who sit in a cruiser all day long.

JackTheLadd

LOL, nice graphic.

Absolutely, if there is heavy usage of a trail system then it needs greater control, but what if it's effectively empty most of the time?

Why be forced to ride on the road, with mental drivers and car fumes, when you have the option to ride in clean air, and safety?

Buglady

PARTS of the trail system are empty, or at least have a lower user density, but there are sections of the trails that are extremely busy almost all the time. (Along the river anywhere between Crowchild and Prince's Island, basically). Making different rules for different pathways can come after they get some basic rules and enforcement in place for the highest need areas - i.e., that really crowded section.

I've had way too many close calls with speeding cyclists - both on foot and on my own bike - to have any sympathy. I like to go fast as much as the next rider, but I don't demand to be allowed to do it whenever and wherever I want. I got run OFF the pathway in Parkdale by a guy who decided to fly past a rollerblader but didn't check the oncoming lane for traffic (me). I'm just glad it was in a grassy section and not the part where the riverbank drops off six inches from the edge of the pathway.

As for ticketing other pathway users - like it or not, there are laws governing bicycle use, but no comparable laws governing pedestrians etcetera. You can't give a person a ticket for being an idiot and walking slowly (dearly though I wish this were the case), and if their dog is on a leash that is all the law requires - if the leash goes across the pathway, it's too bad.

JackTheLadd

Actually that's not quite true, for example there is a bylaw (never enforced) that state pedestrians MUST walk to the right, even on footpaths. I'm sure a search of the other bylaws would reveal other bylaws related to canine (and other) control.

A problem with bylaws is that city governments feel compelled to create so many of them, and then they get to pick and choose which ones to enforce. Many bylaws were created after specific situations occurred, and should probably never have been considered for general use across an entire population.

idontgetit

I was stopped for speeding on the Calgary MUP on Thursday (33 km in a 20 zone). I was issued a warning. I've been watching a Calgary forum discussion about this, and so far no one has mentioned actually getting a ticket.

I was riding on a stretch of path with good sight lines and no other users just before the afternoon rush. This stretch of path is one of the main bike commuter routes out of the downtown core. I was not endangering anyone.

I doubt they will issue tickets to everyone going over 20 km. I wouldn't mind seeing dangerous users ticketed. I'm just hoping they use some discretion.

dobber

Can I use the same logic in an automobile?

Dchiefransom

Enforcing a law by ticketing people that break it is harassment?

idontgetit

Sure. Depending on the mood of the judge, you may even save some points on your license.

genec

Yeah it's called the Basic Speed Law. But you should probably be good at debate if you really want to win.

robin.claire

I don't know the path system too well, and usually just ride with traffic, so this doesn't affect me too much. My dad did get a warning recently for coasting through a stop sign, though, so I don't know if they're just focusing on paths or cracking down on everything.

wils0nic

just a question...but how would the police react if you didn't stop? it's not like in a car when you have a license or anything...i suppose you could just out run the police there.

FurnaceFace

A friend sent this link so I thought I'd join up and add to the fun.


My current route for the past 20 months is through residential areas which for the most part are a pleasure to ride through as there is light traffic however before that I was on the pathways. The pathway system for a large stretches of it is not very wide. I think you could perhaps get 4 people across it shoulder to shoulder. I know frequently I've come across two people walking or running together and they take up the whole lane. As a result it's pretty tough to go over 20 in a large section of the path during peak times.

I'm supportive of The City in having what I've found to be an annual crack down on the people who are trying to channel Lance Armstrong. I really don't mind you whipping past me when it's not busy or on the stretch or path like Jack posted, that seems fairly reasonable to me. You do make for an extremely tense ride though at 4:30/5pm on a weekday when I have to try and dodge the walkers, runners, and worst of all bladers and be on the look out for you coming up my butt.

The City has done a pathway survey for years now and I've always filled one out and strongly advocated for dedicated bike lanes. I have noticed these in European towns/cities and think they would help a ton in preventing injury/accidents and allow for those riding in "the tour" to pass easier.

I would also like to see The City crack down on inappropriate use by those on their feet. My worst experience was a group of Running Room joggers who were a good 20 strong and took up 70% of the entire path. When I rang my bell a couple of times and then commented they made a good wall, all I got were insults. I wish they would get warnings for things like that.

Cheers.

rajman

Perhaps I misspoke - I mean really silly, but since there are potential financial consequences for those riding in that area - it's at least annoying. Note that there are two paths - one for cyclists and rollerbladers, and one for peds/dogwalkers/etc in the part that I mentioned.

The point I'm trying to make (as has been made in other threads) is that a fixed limit, with little regard for road conditions and sightlines is silly.

The same path has a part that is constrained by a chain link fence on one side, a dropoff to a riverbank on the other with a merge from two paths (each about 3-4 ft wide) to one (same width) with a big tree right at the Y intersection is also 20 km/h. I always slow down for that intersection on the path (slower than 20 km/h) because of how tricky it is [I'm talking about the jog more or less in front of the CBC building if you know the pathway]. IMHO anyone trying to slalom around the tree at 40 km/h when there are others in the pathway should be given a citation.

If you were going to enforce a 20 km/h limit, put your enforcement where speeding is most likely to end in tears, rather than a relatively empty location with good sightlines, straight paths, and grass to both sides.

If it's okay to slalom the tree at 20km/h - then it's got to be okay to go faster when you can see well, don't have to manouver around any hazards and there are no cliffs or walls on the sides of the trail.

coldfeet

There are sections of Calgary's pathway that are in need of a speed limit, in places, it deserves the 10 kph limit that they have there. 20 kph is a good guideline for other sections. There are numerous stretches, a large chunk of my commute for instance, that 20 kph is ridiculous, it's not even dawdling, you have try to keep it under. (riding the brakes on the slight downhills for example.) There is a good catch all rule for pathway users, basically, any speed they consider unsafe is a no-no. Most of this periodic "enforcement blitz" is because of a small percentage of riders who ride stupid and arrogant through the downtown on a weekend or afternoon/evening. The problem with the blitz, is the same as all of these, they pick places where they know they will get lots of tickets, flat, wide, downhill spots.

To those who say "use the roads" On my commute, the quickest alternative route is Deerfoot, "No Cycling!" The alternative through downtown takes about 20-25% longer than the pathway, unless of course, I ignore stop signs, traffic lights, one way streets, little things like that.

Apparently they are also giving tickets for not using a bell when passing, ( not just not having a bell ) Despite the online version of the rules saying voice is enough. "On your left!"

I average 18 kph for my commute, there are places where I brake firmly to get well below 20 kph, because to ride round those corners at 20 is stupid and arrogant. But, it's hard to enforce any traffic law in a reasonable way, takes too much time and effort in court, much simpler and more profitable to enforce abitary limits.

Edit: I also have a problem with a speed limit when it is Not a requirement to have Speedometer!

genec

You know that really is an issue...

I wonder if there is anyway to use that to get the ticket dismissed.

rajman

+1000 on all your comments!

LOL - I have a speedo, but most people don't - how are they justified in giving out tickets to people who are unable to tell if they are breaking the law. Motorists can at least guage other motorists, but the speed at which people ride varies much more than car speeds on most roads.

Another thing - why is is considered 'polite' in calgary to constantly scream 'on your left' or ding your bell every single time you pass someone?

On busier sections you could be passing pedestrians every 5-10 seconds, causing hoarseness or bell fatigue, and even on the quieter parts, I just slow down and ding when it seems someone is totally out to lunch. I never count on anyone hearing my bell anyways - between I-pod drones, dogs and young children, you don't really know what anyone will do until they do it. It would make a lot more sense for the city to make people put a baseball card in the spokes so that bikes are less silent.

FWIW I only appreciate a warning if someone is passing way too fast, or I'm blocking the way (carrying my hockey equipment, for example), or my hair is on fire - otherwise just let me enjoy the river.

EDIT - in Toronto I rarely see people use bells unless the path is blocked, and I hear 'on your left' maybe once a month. Ditto for riding on city streets.

For that matter, is one required to ding every time you pass a pedestrian, car or dog, when you are riding on city streets in calgary, or is this rule only on the path??

coldfeet

It's part of the pathway bylaw.

Allister

Oh Noes! Bell fatigue!

rajman

I want to get a feeling from the BF it is a reasonable part of the bylaw: does it serve a useful purpose and does it accomplish that purpose?

I find that particular bylaw to be annoying and would prefer if everyone ignored it, unless it happens to be specifically useful to call out to someone when passing on a particular occasion.

As an example, when driving it is not felt to be useful to honk your horn when passing cars in general. Given that motor vehicle drivers are less dextrous than pedestrians and often unaware of their environment would it be useful to honk at them?