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Would you support a mandatory helmet law?

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Would you support a mandatory helmet law?

Old 02-03-09, 06:15 AM
  #126  
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Hmm, looks like I replied to a really old post. My sentiment remains the same, however.

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Old 02-03-09, 06:41 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
The idea that a helmet will save you when impacted by a few hundred thousand foot-pounds of force is perilously close to fantasy.
It's mostly the journey through the air we're worried about and the impact with the ground, possibly the hood of the car, considering very few vehicles have bumpers at head level.
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Old 02-03-09, 08:05 AM
  #128  
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The majority of head injuries in the USA are caused by car accidents. Until helmets are mandatory for automobile and truck drivers and passengers--i.e. helmets required by all road users/passengers--bike and motorcycle helmet laws have no merit. The argument for helmet laws based on societal cost is the lousiest argument to make for bike- or motorcycle-specific helmet laws, and any legislator bringing it up as an argument for helmet laws should lose their seat for being absolutely too stupid to legislate, or in the pocket of one special interest or another.
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Old 02-03-09, 11:42 AM
  #129  
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A PDF of the paper.

http://web.gsm.uci.edu/~kittc/Carpen...002%202007.pdf


Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
Just flipping around this morning and I found another one

http://ashe2008.abstractbook.org/presentations/642/

from the American Society of Health Economists:

Intended and Unintended Effects of Youth Bicycle Helmet Laws

Over the past 15 years, 21 states have adopted laws requiring youths under a certain age (generally 16) to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle. Previous evaluation research finds that these laws significantly reduced youth bicycling fatalities, and the prevailing view is that fatalities fell because helmet use increased. In this paper we confirm that helmet laws reduced fatalities, but we uncover robust evidence of an alternative and unintended mechanism: helmet laws significantly reduced youth bicycling. We find this result in standard two-way fixed effects models of self-reported cycling behaviors, as well as in augmented triple difference (DDD) models that explicitly account for cycling behaviors of youths just above the helmet law age threshold. The reduction in cycling also obtains using independent samples of parental reports of child bicycling behaviors. Our evidence on the effects of helmet laws on helmet use is mixed, though in all cases we find that previous approaches common in the public health literature dramatically overstate the true effects on helmet use. A full cost-benefit analysis of helmet laws should take into account the previously ignored reductions in youth cycling.

to the supporters who point to reductions of fatalities in areas that have instituted helmet laws, it would seem that if those laws reduced people who ride bikes, there are less bike riders to die and as I first stated as the experience in my province after it passed a MHL, ridership not only dropped as usage rates raised, but fatalities increased dramatically before leveling off to normal rates a couple of years on.
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Old 02-03-09, 02:33 PM
  #130  
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In my experience, those who wear helmets often seem to need them.
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Old 02-03-09, 03:38 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
In my experience, those who wear helmets often seem to need them.
That would be me. The bicycle helmet seems to be the perfect platform for my adjustable visor (commute to work is heading east and the commute home is heading west, so I either need a visor or would need to move to the other side of work); also perfect for a helmet mounted HID light and most of all, my helmet mounted mirror.

Oh yeah, in 27 years of commuting, the helmet ONCE saved me from a major headache when a motorist hit my rear wheel from the side and sent me to the ground hard and fast.
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Old 02-03-09, 06:51 PM
  #132  
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It's mostly the journey through the air we're worried about and the impact with the ground, possibly the hood of the car, considering very few vehicles have bumpers at head level.
That may be what you're worried about, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are, or should be. You should check out some pictures of cars that have struck cyclists. There will usually be an indentation in the windshield surrounded by a web of cracks. It speaks volumes, and anyone who's ever seen the results firsthand knows the bitter futility of depending upon a few ounces of Styrofoam in that scenario.
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Old 02-03-09, 06:54 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
I support mandatory helmet laws because of higher costs. Many folks who get hurt can't afford the medical bills so they get care at our local county hospital which drivers up the costs to those who do pay. County tax payers also chip in which raises my sales and property taxes.

When the motor cycle idiots (I've about 80,000 miles on m cycles) demonstrated and got the helmet law repealed, the death/injury rate from head injuries skyrocketed.

They often leave dependants as well which sometimes requires state aid with the loss of a wage earner.

Al
Ignoring the fact that your logic allows intrusion into any part of your personal life on the basis of cost -- "Yes officer, I am wearing a condom, no officer, that's not whole fat milk in my refrigerator" -- there doesn't seem to be any evidence that helmet laws result in reduced taxes or insurance rates. We get the occasional nebulous "Head injuries cost $____ per year while widespread helmet use reduces head injuries by _____ percent" business, but if any of that supposed savings is making it into the taxpayers pocket, we have yet to see proof of it.

Last edited by Six jours; 02-03-09 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 02-03-09, 06:58 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
Honestly, not everyone here knows the situation at hand regarding the close calls he got. Please be careful not to judge people. Advising someone to quit something they love is not very nice also. Give the guy a break, huh?
I know the guy falls off his bike a lot and thinks that's a good reason to force everyone else to wear a helmet. "I'm cold so everyone put on a sweater!".

Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
Calling someone careless or clueless is not really fair.
Forcing people to change their lives because some people are careless or clueless is even less fair.

Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
I'm pretty certain that almost all of us here on BF try to be careful.
New here, eh?
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Old 02-04-09, 12:17 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
That would be me. The bicycle helmet seems to be the perfect platform for my adjustable visor (commute to work is heading east and the commute home is heading west, so I either need a visor or would need to move to the other side of work); also perfect for a helmet mounted HID light and most of all, my helmet mounted mirror.

Oh yeah, in 27 years of commuting, the helmet ONCE saved me from a major headache when a motorist hit my rear wheel from the side and sent me to the ground hard and fast.
With all that weight on your head, I'm surprised you don't need a neck-brace. Oh geez, now I've done it: someone's gonna propose mandatory neck-braces now.

Of course, what I meant was that, often, those who wear helmets have a curious habit of falling off their bikes, not watching where they're going and running into things.
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Old 02-04-09, 12:22 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
Of course, what I meant was that, often, those who wear helmets have a curious habit of falling off their bikes, not watching where they're going and running into things.
Oh, come on! Now you're just taking silly in another direction.

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Old 02-04-09, 12:39 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
Oh, come on! Now you're just taking silly in another direction.

Speedo
but is it any sillier than mandating a device which is meant to protect children from minor injuries while falling from their bicycles for everybody who crashes with cars in traffic all the while claiming that because helmets prevent those minor injuries for children they will prevent the deaths to those who collide with cars?
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Old 02-04-09, 01:51 PM
  #138  
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If you throw in a good set of leathers,I'll consider it.Seems sort of silly to just protect my head.
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Old 02-04-09, 02:33 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
With all that weight on your head, I'm surprised you don't need a neck-brace. Oh geez, now I've done it: someone's gonna propose mandatory neck-braces now...
One or two pounds are not so bad. Especially since I have continued weight lifting starting in 1969 (when I began lifting for high school football). I can still do 10 reps of 200 pound neck lift on all four sides of the neck.

Most cyclist that ride in an aero position, have pretty strong neck muscles on the back of the neck.

But I suppose for those that need it, we could design a new helmet with a helium filled bladder for cushioning and making the helmet lighter than air.

Last edited by CB HI; 02-04-09 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 02-04-09, 08:01 PM
  #140  
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Did somebody say neck brace?

All the same arguments made for helmet use apply to cycling-specific neck braces. But they're not worn in the TdF, therefore not considered "cool", so any mention of them during a helmet debate is considered a silly distraction. Hmm...
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Old 02-04-09, 08:21 PM
  #141  
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This thread still blabbering on?

-Kurt
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Old 02-04-09, 09:21 PM
  #142  
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Yes, but it just hasn't been the same without your insights.
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Old 02-04-09, 11:55 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
This thread still blabbering on?

-Kurt
You do suppot mandatory blabbering, I presume.
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Old 02-05-09, 01:22 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
Yes, but it just hasn't been the same without your insights.
Insights? I've said something worth hearing? I better edit that post right now...


Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
You do suppot mandatory blabbering, I presume.
I certainly do. Blabber away.

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Old 02-05-09, 03:02 AM
  #145  
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Inside Edition just ran a piece on risky behavior, based on a consumer report. They repeated cycling with no helmet in 3 different parts of the segment. They even brought on a Consumer Report guy spouting the misleading helmet statistics.

The video showed a girl on a cruiser with a ball cap on and weaving all over the road, including into the oncoming lane.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...-taking-ov.htm

Last edited by CB HI; 02-05-09 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 02-05-09, 06:47 AM
  #146  
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Columbus just passed a mandatory helmet law for kids on bikes (and trikes and scooters and other toys). The main doctor sponsor of the ordinance spoke out in favor of it at council. He argued that head injuries from cycling were second only to head injuries from motor vehicle accidents as causes of death to kids. When I asked why council was only dealing with the second highest cause of injury instead of the first (and therefore why they weren't requiring helmets for kids in cars), I was told simply that they were focusing on bikes only. No reason.

I also pointed out that burglars and other criminals in Columbus would be happy for the diversion of police resources.

I think people should wear helmets (my helmet has saved me from pain, and that's a good enough reason to wear one), but I'm opposed to the law. It's just an excuse for cops to harass kids on bikes. The evidence doesn't support helmets for cyclists any more than it supports helmets for pedestrians, golfers, or passengers in cars.
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Old 02-05-09, 08:23 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
The video showed a girl on a cruiser with a ball cap on and weaving all over the road, including into the oncoming lane.
Typical. Ignore the obvious hazards, and nag about the popular ones.

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Old 02-05-09, 09:17 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Daily Commute View Post
Columbus just passed a mandatory helmet law for kids on bikes (and trikes and scooters and other toys). The main doctor sponsor of the ordinance spoke out in favor of it at council. He argued that head injuries from cycling were second only to head injuries from motor vehicle accidents as causes of death to kids...
Me thinks the good doctor is doing his best to be misleading in order to support his cause.

I'd like to ask the doctor just what was the extent of the typical head injury a child would see an attending physician for.

I'll bet they were superficial, and I'd further bet that the head injuries that resulted in death, were the results of collisions with motor vehicles, something bicycle helmets are not designed for.

Last edited by closetbiker; 02-05-09 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 02-05-09, 10:00 AM
  #149  
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Oh boy, here we go again!

I was a motorcyclist for 30 years, rode hundereds of thousands of miles and yes, I wore a helmet for all those years and miles. Still I have friends that rode the same years and miles and "never" wore a helmet, as we said: "Let Those Who RIDE, DECIDE", weither they want to wear a helmet. I really distain the "Nanny government" ideal that a "Mandantory Helmet Law" brings on. We are supposed to be a "freeer" society, but we want to constantly restric ourselves to be SAFE. Now that I've changed my 2-wheels for a bicycle I still wear a helmet, I can see the merits but it's "MY Choice" and that's the way it should stay, jmho.
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Old 02-05-09, 10:17 AM
  #150  
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Most people, like the doctor, discount the benefits to health from riding a bike.

The issue is bigger than accidents. The issue is health.

There's a chance someone can fall on stairs and hurt themselves, yet it's acknowledged that taking the stairs instead of an elevator is better for us in spite of that risk. Throw in the experience of areas that have instituted MHL's and you find that the evidence is that fewer people ride when a MHL is passed.

Health professionals are lowering the state of health when they endorse MHL's.

Last edited by closetbiker; 02-05-09 at 10:33 AM.
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