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City Forbids Winter Cycling

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City Forbids Winter Cycling

Old 01-20-09, 07:18 AM
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City Forbids Winter Cycling

From the Montreal Gazette

"City officials in La Tuque will be urging police to enforce a little-known municipal bylaw that forbids cycling on icy or snowy streets after a cyclist was run over by a truck and killed there on Tuesday evening last week."

Amazing
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Old 01-20-09, 07:55 AM
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Shouldn't they forbid truck driving... seems to me they got it all wrong.
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Old 01-20-09, 08:09 AM
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While they're at it they should ban fishing too. Never know when someone will fall through the ice.
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Old 01-20-09, 08:35 AM
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Looks like the standard truck driver doesn't take into account the bicycle is moving and cuts back into the lane too early. Sounds like manslaughter to me.

" ..... anything not good for you is bad, hence illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat....."

From the all-too prophetic movie, "Demolition Man."
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Old 01-20-09, 08:55 AM
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As I said in a related thread: banning the victim is like suspending all the kids at school and keeping the bully.
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Old 01-20-09, 09:36 AM
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The Quebecois can be a little bit strange when it comes to writing legislation, so this isn't totally surprising...
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Old 01-20-09, 09:57 AM
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Preaching to the choir here, I know, but what did winter have to do with any of this?
"Rivard said ice or snow did not seem to have played a role in the incident."

"Bicycles are not well-adapted to winter conditions."
What? Clearly he's never ridden in winter conditions. I'm a lot safer on my bike with studded tires than in a car, or walking, especially if ice is involved.
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Old 01-20-09, 10:04 AM
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From http://www.montreal.com/tourism/general.html

If you're comfortable on a bicycle it would be interesting to see Montreal en vélo. Bicycling magazine named Montreal the top bicycling city for 1999. However, keep in mind that motorists tend to be aggressive and you have to ride circumspectly. Helmets are not mandatory, but bicycles should be well equipped with reflectors if you will be riding after dark, and you should have a good lock: bicycle theft is endemic. The Maison des Cyclistes, 1251 Rachel East, 514-521-8356, rents bikes and sells maps of bike paths in and around the city. There is also bicycle rental in the Old Port (514-847-0666). You can bring a bicycle into the metro, but you must follow the rules.
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Old 01-20-09, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by vtjim View Post
Clearly he's never ridden in winter conditions. I'm a lot safer on my bike with studded tires than in a car, or walking, especially if ice is involved.
I have never ridden in snow or on ice... what I don't understand is how two wheels and balance can be "better" than four wheels. Of course I understand the issues of moving mass on an unpredictable surface, and how that can render a motor vehicle into an uncontrolled "missile;" what I don't understand is riding a bike on such a surface. I have ridden on slick moss and other slippery surfaces such as wet steel plates and frankly it was a touchy situation.

Just wondering.
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Old 01-20-09, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I have never ridden in snow or on ice... what I don't understand is how two wheels and balance can be "better" than four wheels. Of course I understand the issues of moving mass on an unpredictable surface, and how that can render a motor vehicle into an uncontrolled "missile;" what I don't understand is riding a bike on such a surface. I have ridden on slick moss and other slippery surfaces such as wet steel plates and frankly it was a touchy situation.

Just wondering.
Tire choice.

In fresh snow, thin tires (23) cut down to the road and ride as though no snow is present. A car with it's wider tires will compact the snow and create a slippery surface underneath it. On fresh snow, I can outride pretty much any car, 4 wheel drive or otherwise. Incidentally, this is why rally cars in snowy conditions use thinner tires than normal to take advantage of the "snow cutting" effect.

As to ice, unless the car is running studded tires as well, a bike with studded tires will outhandle any car.

So depending on tire choice and conditions, a bike can in fact be far superior
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Old 01-20-09, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
Tire choice.

In fresh snow, thin tires (23) cut down to the road and ride as though no snow is present. A car with it's wider tires will compact the snow and create a slippery surface underneath it. On fresh snow, I can outride pretty much any car, 4 wheel drive or otherwise. Incidentally, this is why rally cars in snowy conditions use thinner tires than normal to take advantage of the "snow cutting" effect.

As to ice, unless the car is running studded tires as well, a bike with studded tires will outhandle any car.

So depending on tire choice and conditions, a bike can in fact be far superior
cool thanks... so MTB tires might not be the best choice, eh?
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Old 01-20-09, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
cool thanks... so MTB tires might not be the best choice, eh?
My all around choice for winter weather riding is the narrowest, highest stud count, aggressive tire I can fit on the bike. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all tire for winter riding. When in Ohio I have to deal with clean pavement, deep (4"+) fresh snow, compacted frozen snow, ice patches, etc. Each condition can be better handled with a different type of tire. So you make the best choice you can for your conditions. In deep powder a narrow tire will perform better than a wider tire, on hard pack just the opposite. Glare ice tire width doesn't really matter...

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Old 01-20-09, 10:50 AM
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I see a lot of yack, yack, yack; and not enough do, do, do.

I'll wager that not one of you has sent a letter of complaint/protest to the city.

-Kurt
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Old 01-20-09, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I see a lot of yack, yack, yack; and not enough do, do, do.

I'll wager that not one of you has sent a letter of complaint/protest to the city.

-Kurt
Better make sure you write it in French.

Note that La Tuque is a city with a population of about 11 000, and it's about 150 miles northeast of Montreal. I'm guessing that public transit isn't exactly an option on days when bikes are banned, either.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
My all around choice for winter weather riding is the narrowest, highest stud count, aggressive tire I can fit on the bike. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all tire for winter riding. When in Ohio I have to deal with clean pavement, deep (4"+) fresh snow, compacted frozen snow, ice patches, etc. Each condition can be better handled with a different type of tire. So you make the best choice you can for your conditions. In deep powder a narrow tire will perform better than a wider tire, on hard pack just the opposite. Glare ice tire width doesn't really matter...

Aaron

Thanks... I had absolutely no idea.
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Old 01-20-09, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jefferee View Post
Better make sure you write it in French.
www.freetranslation.com

If nothing else, you'll befuddle them.

-Kurt
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Old 01-20-09, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
As I said in a related thread: banning the victim is like suspending all the kids at school and keeping the bully.
If the vast majority of students in a school were bullies, perhaps they would "suspend" (i.e. relocate to a different school) the good kids.

He said certain weather conditions, such as freezing rain, can make winter cycling dangerous, and cyclists should use their judgment about when it's safe to ride.
That should be the one and only cycling "restriction" in place based on weather conditions. After all, the article stated directly that:

ice or snow did not seem to have played a role in the incident.
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Old 01-20-09, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bikesafer View Post
From the Montreal Gazette

"City officials in La Tuque will be urging police to enforce a little-known municipal bylaw that forbids cycling on icy or snowy streets after a cyclist was run over by a truck and killed there on Tuesday evening last week."

Amazing
They sure have that backwards.
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Old 01-20-09, 07:49 PM
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masse critique, anyone?
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Old 01-20-09, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Thanks... I had absolutely no idea.
Being in San Diego...

BTW one of our favorite places to visit. Ever been to the Whaley house in Old Town? Relatives of mine

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Old 01-20-09, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
www.freetranslation.com

If nothing else, you'll befuddle them.

-Kurt
Dear men who are both important and good at hearing,

Happy, happy we will all be for sitting on a bicycle. All the weather is best for this; and but each of you does not look at this. I, and not you, am struggled to speak that perpetrating an emergency is a very nice person of fornication that also enjoys taking a drive in a car. And, I do not commence to announce that the people of the truck should have never been considered by mothers. And no fathers either. Upwardly procreating is not for you or your beloved families.

You own me,

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Old 01-20-09, 08:48 PM
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Original:
Ban winter cycling because of an accident? You ---- heads! The problem lies with the usage of large, uncontrollable automobiles on the icy, winter roads, not bicycles. Any episode of Storm Stories will damn well prove that point, ---- heads!

Translation to French:
L'interdiction hiver allant à vélo à cause d'un accident ? Vous chiez des têtes ! Le problème ment avec l'usage de d'auto grandes et incontrôlables sur les glacées, de routes d'hiver, pas les vélos. N'importe quel épisode d'Histoires d'Orage condamnera bien prouvera ce point, baiser des têtes !

Translation of French translation back to English:

Does the ban winter go to bicycle because of an accident? You drop heads! The problem lies with the usage of big car and uncontrollable ones on the ices, of roads of winter, not the bicycles. Any episode of Histories of Storm will condemn will well prove this point, kiss heads!

-Kurt
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Old 01-20-09, 08:56 PM
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Next step, banning walking after a pedestrian is struck by a trucker. WE WILL HAVE NO WALKING!
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Old 01-20-09, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
masse critique, anyone?
Oui oui monsieur!
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Old 01-20-09, 09:16 PM
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While skinny tires are good on snow that can be dug through to pavement, I suggest that wider, knobbier tires work really well on snowy/icy dirt paths and trails, or city streets that have at least 1-3 inches of compacted snow and ice.

These conditions are similar to riding on wet packed dirt, where, in my experience, narrow tires do not perform well.
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