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Mom & two sons hit in Hawaii

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Mom & two sons hit in Hawaii

Old 03-01-09, 02:27 AM
  #1  
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Mom & two sons hit in Hawaii

https://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/14535/40/

"Woman In Critical Condition; North Shore Accident
A woman is fighting for her life and her two children also hospitalized after being hit by a car on the North Shore.

It happened on Kamehameha highway near Ke Waena beach just after 8 o'clock this morning. Police say the woman was on a bicycle pulling her two young sons in a carriage when a car veered off the road and hit them head on. Police say speed, alcohol, and drugs do not appear to be factors in the crash."

Few details, but it does appear the Mom was riding the wrong direction, but was still well off the roadway.

It will be interesting if it turns out the motorist was texting on a cell phone, as the mayor just vetoed a bill outlawing texting and driving.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:35 AM
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I do not care enough to follow this story but I bet that the comment section of the newspaper will be FULL of people criticizing her for transporting her kids outside of a car. Most people are too stupid to know that auto crashes are the #1 cause of death in children over the age of 3.

There is a real good chance that this was dog the bounty hunter who hit this family. He has already killed one little girl while driving, his own, and might be after some more.
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Old 03-01-09, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
Most people are too stupid to know that auto crashes are the #1 cause of death in children over the age of 3.
So, suppose they're not `too stupid' to know this. What should they do with this knowledge?

Stay home?
Walk everywhere?
Take the kids in a trailer on their bike?

I imagine that your answer is #2 or #3, but I'm not aware of any study that suggests that by doing so the number of deaths would decrease. Ultimately, kids over 3 don't usually die of diseases -- they die from accidents, and transportation accidents are the most common kind of fatal accident. (Note that kids who have drivers licenses (presumably 16-18 or so) are the worst drivers of all. Though I don't know if they'd be better cyclists than drivers ...)

But wow, looking at the article ... her bike was messed up! Looks like the driver missed the trailer, however -- good thing too.
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Old 03-01-09, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
It will be interesting if it turns out the motorist was texting on a cell phone, as the mayor just vetoed a bill outlawing texting and driving.
Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
I do not care enough to follow this story but I bet that the comment section of the newspaper will be FULL of people criticizing her for transporting her kids outside of a car. Most people are too stupid to know that auto crashes are the #1 cause of death in children over the age of 3.

There is a real good chance that this was dog the bounty hunter who hit this family. He has already killed one little girl while driving, his own, and might be after some more.
Can either of you two clairvoyants check your crystal balls and predict tomorrow's winning lottery number? It would be more productive than your ghoulish speculations.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:12 PM
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^^
My statement made no prediction of cause and as such did not require any such clairvoyants. Nowadays, texting is one of the probable causes for someone just driving off the road for no apparent reason. Honolulu just went through getting a bill passed to ban texting while driving with a 7 to 1 vote by the city council. The mayor vetoed the bill, on the claim that it is too hard to enforce (angered many who want to stop this extremely unsafe practice). With the original 7-1 vote, the council could override the veto, but 2 councilman are hoping for political gain by riding the mayor's coat tails and flipped their vote. Thus the veto override failed solely for selfish individual political reasons. The veto story made ALL the news cast and papers. So yes, it will be very interesting to watch the fallout if the driver was texting, but not so if the driver was merely eating a Big Mac.

Not surprising ILTB fails to see the point in his rush to hammer an injured cyclist report.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
^^
My statement made no prediction of cause and as such did not require any such clairvoyants. Nowadays, texting is one of the probable causes for someone just driving off the road for no apparent reason. Honolulu just went through getting a bill passed to ban texting while driving with a 7 to 1 vote by the city council. The mayor vetoed the bill, on the claim that it is too hard to enforce (angered many who want to stop this extremely unsafe practice). With the original 7-1 vote, the council could override the veto, but 2 councilman are hoping for political gain by riding the mayor's coat tails and flipped their vote. Thus the veto override failed solely for selfish individual political reasons. The veto story made ALL the news cast and papers. So yes, it will be very interesting to watch the fallout if the driver was texting, but not so if the driver was merely eating a Big Mac.

Not surprising ILTB fails to see the point in his rush to hammer an injured cyclist report.
Do the laws/ordinances in Honolulu passed by the council and mayor cover the North Shore? Does it extend that far to the other side of the island? I am not trying to be sarcastic or pick a fight or argument over this but you did say the incident occured on the North Shore. Honolulu is on the south end of the lsland. What powers do the mayor/council and laws/ordinances have so far away from Honolulu? I had thought that the North Shore would have it's own laws and ordinances dictated by it's council and mayor.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
So, suppose they're not `too stupid' to know this. What should they do with this knowledge?

Stay home?
Walk everywhere?
Take the kids in a trailer on their bike?

I imagine that your answer is #2 or #3, but I'm not aware of any study that suggests that by doing so the number of deaths would decrease. Ultimately, kids over 3 don't usually die of diseases -- they die from accidents, and transportation accidents are the most common kind of fatal accident. (Note that kids who have drivers licenses (presumably 16-18 or so) are the worst drivers of all. Though I don't know if they'd be better cyclists than drivers ...)

But wow, looking at the article ... her bike was messed up! Looks like the driver missed the trailer, however -- good thing too.
Not "transportation accidents" Automobile accidents.

If the roles were reversed and 99% of trips made within cities were done so by bike/ped's and 1% by cars the roads would be very safe indeed. 42,000 americans would not die per year in auto crashes.....300,000 since 9-11-01

You know, that day when 1/100th that many people died and we fought two wars over it?
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Old 03-01-09, 02:52 PM
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Here are the newspaper articles.

https://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...D=200990228040

https://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...=2009903010352

https://www.starbulletin.com/news/breaking/40488313.html

The last article seems to have gotten the cyclist direction of travel wrong.

sorry if the links were not working earlier

Last edited by CB HI; 03-01-09 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Square & Compas View Post
Do the laws/ordinances in Honolulu passed by the council and mayor cover the North Shore? Does it extend that far to the other side of the island? I am not trying to be sarcastic or pick a fight or argument over this but you did say the incident occured on the North Shore. Honolulu is on the south end of the lsland. What powers do the mayor/council and laws/ordinances have so far away from Honolulu? I had thought that the North Shore would have it's own laws and ordinances dictated by it's council and mayor.
Good question. The Local government is actually the "City and County of Honolulu". It does cover both the city and the entire island of Oahu. There have been some attempts in the past to change the name to the "County of Oahu", but all were dropped due to the cost of changing all the signs, etc.
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Old 03-01-09, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Good question. The Local government is actually the "City and County of Honolulu". It does cover both the city and the entire island of Oahu. There have been some attempts in the past to change the name to the "County of Oahu", but all were dropped due to the cost of changing all the signs, etc.
So since the the laws and ordinances that apply in Honolulu apply all across the island they also apply in Pearl City? Are there representatives from the other areas of the island on the council? Like the North Shore, Pearl City, etc.? This kind of sounds like one mayor/council is both the city council for Honolulu and a Board of Supervisors for the rest of the island. Is this a good assesment of how the government is set up?
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Old 03-01-09, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Good question. The Local government is actually the "City and County of Honolulu". It does cover both the city and the entire island of Oahu. There have been some attempts in the past to change the name to the "County of Oahu", but all were dropped due to the cost of changing all the signs, etc.
It would appear by the following document that Honolulu ordinances encompass the North Shore.

https://www.honolulu.gov/refs/roh/nshore/24ns_ch4.htm

If the reports can be believed, the cyclist was riding against traffic on a cycle track that had just merged onto the road as a bike lane; "They also said the woman was hit when she was on the small portion of bike path that was really on the highway."

The newspaper story indicates that this is where it happened.

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...01548&t=h&z=19

If so, it was not near any intersections for that side of the road.
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Old 03-01-09, 04:03 PM
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Representatives are from various parts of the island and the whole island is sort of treated like one city. Sort of like a large city, say Chicago, that has several districts within the city.
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Old 03-01-09, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
If the reports can be believed, the cyclist was riding against traffic on a cycle track that had just merged onto the road as a bike lane; "They also said the woman was hit when she was on the small portion of bike path that was really on the highway."

The newspaper story indicates that this is where it happened.

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...01548&t=h&z=19

If so, it was not near any intersections for that side of the road.
The reports did a poor job of describing the area. The bike path is between Ke Waena Rd and Kamehameha Hwy. The bike path is narrow, curves a great deal and is physically separated from both the road and highway (as in recreational and not transportational path)the bike path ends withKe Waena Rd. Google maps also draws Ke Nui Rd too far to the southwest; the road actually ends where the Kamehameha Hwy label is (as can be seen in the aerial photo). From what I understand the cyclist was on the north side of the Kamehameha Hwy, northest of Ke Waena Rd and the cyclist was riding towards the northeast. There are no "bike lanes" in this area. The shoulder (which some here like to wrongly call bike lanes) varies from 1' to 5' wide. In the area of the collision, the shoulder is 4' - 5' wide.

Last edited by CB HI; 03-02-09 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 03-01-09, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Not surprising ILTB fails to see the point in his rush to hammer an injured cyclist report.
What is not surprising is one of the the usual suspects posting a news snippet about an injured cyclist, without making any point or purpose at all! Except to point fingers at straw men villians and speculate (without a shred of evidence) that the cause might have been a favorite hobbyhorse (evil cell phones wielded by evil motorists).
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Old 03-01-09, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
Not "transportation accidents" Automobile accidents.
Automobiles are used for transportation. (And other things, granted, but mostly we think of them as a transportation device.) Automobile accidents are a subset of transportation accidents.
If the roles were reversed and 99% of trips made within cities were done so by bike/ped's and 1% by cars the roads would be very safe indeed. 42,000 americans would not die per year in auto crashes.....
Yes, I guess if there's no autos, nobody will die in auto crashes. Instead, they'll die in bus, bike, trolley, whatever crashes. Would it be less than 42,000/year? Perhaps, perhaps not -- depends on the specifics.
You know, that day when 1/100th that many people died and we fought two wars over it?
You know, that day started out with a transportation-related accident that turned out to not be accident ...

In any event, I've got a trailer and have pulled my kids in it. Assuming that my risk of an accident on my bike (but without the trailer) is the same as my risk of an accident in a car, then my risk of an accident with the trailer seems significantly higher. I'm significantly slower and less agile, and the trailer is significantly wider than the bike. I can't really ride on a sidewalk even when I think I should, because things like fire hydrants make the sidewalk unpassable (but they don't stop the bike by itself.) The risk of a mechanical problem goes way up as well. To compensate for all these (perceived?) dangers, I absolutely avoid the heavy traffic areas, where I'd be willing to ride them myself. Ultimately, there's a significant number of trips that are perfectly practical by myself that I will not make with the kids in the trailer. Without a car, I might be tempted/forced to make these dangerous trips with the kids in the trailer, and we could end up in the news like this poor woman ...

(Not that I know that the place where the accident happened is such a high risk area, of course.)

(Of course, there's a few things that might make the trailer trips safer. Cars are more likely to give me a lot of room, and my idea of what is an acceptable risk becomes much smaller. But overall, I feel it's significantly more dangerous.)

Still, you haven't answered my question. Knowing that transportation accidents are the #1 killer of children over three, how do you suggest that an appropriately enlightened (i.e. not stupid) parent with children use this information? The obvious answers would be to 1) stay home, or 2) bike or walk instead of drive -- like this woman did. (Of course, to be fair, neither she nor her children have died (yet?), so they're not part of that 42,000/year statistic.)
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Old 03-01-09, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What is not surprising is one of the the usual suspects posting a news snippet about an injured cyclist, without making any point or purpose at all! Except to point fingers at straw men villians and speculate (without a shred of evidence) that the cause might have been a favorite hobbyhorse (evil cell phones wielded by evil motorists).
Also not surprising, when ILTB's first attack fails logic; he simply cuts and paste another attack from his long list.
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Old 03-01-09, 09:01 PM
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Regarding riding the wrong direction:

Does the sidepath merge onto the road there, to become a two-way bicycle lane or shoulder?
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Old 03-01-09, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bsut View Post
Regarding riding the wrong direction:

Does the sidepath merge onto the road there, to become a two-way bicycle lane or shoulder?
There is no side path on that road. Bad reporting by the media. She was riding on a 4 to 5' wide shoulder.
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Old 03-01-09, 09:47 PM
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A horrific accident, lets hope the woman recovers, the police investigate with an unbiased eye, the prosecutors not act as judges declining to file charges, and the driver faces the appropriate negligent driving or 'reckless' charges. 8 AM, eh?

bad reporting by the OP too! 'far off the roadway'= riding on the 4-5 foot shoulder.

Also - and correct me if I'm wrong, CBHI, but aren't bicyclists in Hawaii legally allowed to ride contraflow on the shoulders?

I'm pretty sure she was operating according to the rules of the road and what not.....
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Old 03-01-09, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Few details, but it does appear the Mom was riding the wrong direction, but was still well off the roadway.
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
bad reporting by the OP too! 'far off the roadway'= riding on the 4-5 foot shoulder.
If you are going to quote me, at least do so accurately. Compared to the 2 - 3' wide bike lanes Honolulu has downtown, riding on a 4 - 5' shoulder, IS well off the roadway.

Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
Also - and correct me if I'm wrong, CBHI, but aren't bicyclists in Hawaii legally allowed to ride contraflow on the shoulders?
OK, I will. Wrong way cycling is against the law here on the road, in a bike lane and on a shoulder. In fact, until a few years ago, it was even technically illegal to even ride on a shoulder.

But again, her direction of travel appears to have no bearing on this collision occurring. Riding the wrong way, in this case, may have saved the lives of her children in the trailer, as her bicycle likely buffered the impact to them.

Edit: I double checked for a requirement for riding a bicycle, when on a sidewalk, in the same direction of traffic on that side of the road. I could not find a law under state or city code, maybe it could be in some case law but I doubt it. Or something put in one of the cycling state/city handouts as made up law.

Double Edit: I remember now where the "ride same way on a sidewalk as traffic" came from. A newspaper lady wrote an article titled something like "Bikers, help us not hit you" back in about 1996. It was a BS piece in which the writer blamed cyclist for every near collision she had with a cyclist. In the piece, she quoted the City Ped and Bicycle Coordinator as saying it 'was illegal for bicycles to ride the wrong direction on a sidewalk'. The article also misstated or flat out had several other traffic laws wrong.

Last edited by CB HI; 03-02-09 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:30 AM
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I was there shortly after the accident, The driver swerved onto the bike path that runs alongside Kam Hwy. She was distracted because she was "putting on makeup" as she was driving to work. She sat in shock in her car for a good hour after she hit them.
03/01/2009 1:02:32 p.m.
There you go. She was putting on makeup.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
I do not care enough to follow this story but I bet that the comment section of the newspaper will be FULL of people criticizing her for transporting her kids outside of a car....
Nope. Check them for yourself.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JinbaIttai View Post
There you go. She was putting on makeup.
can you provide a source for this quote?
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Old 03-02-09, 10:24 AM
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Any word on the mother and her children?
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Old 03-02-09, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JinbaIttai View Post
There you go. She was putting on makeup.
Vanity can be deadly
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