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Dead Right

Old 03-02-09, 12:18 AM
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Dead Right

This guy is not dead, but he states if he is killed he will be dead right.

I must say I respect his convictions. At least this is one cyclist trying to do something about it. I disagree with what the motorists and some of the police say about him riding in the travel lane of traffic. At least he consulted a lawyer about the matter instead of confronting police and prosecutors directly.
Check out the video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJmxC...layer_embedded
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Old 03-02-09, 01:33 AM
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I love this guy !! I know a producer here for Fox 2 Detroit Iam going to send him this and let him know . He is a commuter and I know is working on some stuf now Thanks for posting this ! Iam sure from what we saw this guy got camera help from Fox .
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Old 03-02-09, 03:38 AM
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Excellent video.

I'm thinking of doing something similar but with a 3 foot, very thin, flexible rod that sticks out into traffic from the rear rack - the traffic (backward) facing side a mix of neutral colors, the camera facing side high visibility with heavy black lines at the 0, 1, 2 and 3 foot marks (3 feet starts at my elbow, not the bike).

Choosing an appropriate material for the rod is the challenge - it needs to yield without breaking into dangerous projectiles when hit by vehicles that might be doing over 55 mph, but it also needs to be rigid enough not to bend (too much) when riding.

Ideally I would also like something that determines the speed of the passing vehicle, even if it is just me shouting the speed for an audio record.

In Oregon we can use a citizen initiated “violation proceeding” leading to citation.
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Old 03-02-09, 04:12 AM
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Kudos to Mr. Frings.

The title of the story seems to overplay the danger involved, but sensationalism is to be expected from the mass media.

WI traffic law seems to be the same as FL in regards to cyclist's rights to the roadway as motorists, defining what constitutes the roadway and the 3' passing law.

I think he rides closer to the white line than I do. I like to be clearly to the right of the road edge if a BL or paved shoulder of sufficient width is present, or obviously to the left of the white line. To ride too far to the right in the lane invites close passing. Of course riding in a BL or on a paved shoulder invites closer and higher speed passing than does riding out in the lane, but there the cyclist is plainly not in the lane. I have found that the more room I keep on my right, the more I tend to be given on my left when being passed.

Riding further to the left would help mitigate, but not eliminate, some of the close passes he is experiencing.
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Old 03-02-09, 07:07 AM
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I believe Frings is a member of this forum under the username 'bikesafer'
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Old 03-02-09, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Square & Compas View Post
This guy is not dead, but he states if he is killed he will be dead right.

I must say I respect his convictions. At least this is one cyclist trying to do something about it. I disagree with what the motorists and some of the police say about him riding in the travel lane of traffic. At least he consulted a lawyer about the matter instead of confronting police and prosecutors directly.
Check out the video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJmxC...layer_embedded
Thanks for checking out the video, but as the cyclist in the story, I feel I have to correct you on something,

I never stated that if I am killed I will be dead right, the people who produced the story said that. I said I use the cameras so no matter what happens I will have proof that I was in the right.

Pipes,
I don't believe the producer or reporter got any "help from Fox" in doing this story, and I know I didn't get any help from anyone with my cameras. I've been riding with cameras for over a year now and I've been a professional photographer for more than 20 years. If I had any help from a major network I'm sure the video quality would have been better than it was. I can only afford the cheaper cameras not the HD lipstick cameras a network would have.

HoustonB,
I have tossed around that same idea but never figured out how to do it in a way that didn't put me at risk of either getting knocked off my bike each time the rod got hit or snapping back and hitting me. If you figure out how to make it work, let me and all of us know. I'd love to hear the response of the cop when I showed them the video with a yardstick smacking into the car as he went by.

Bikesafer
Jeff
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Old 03-02-09, 07:38 AM
  #7  
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The laws governing road cycling should be taught and tested in every driver's license course in the country. Education CAN solve some of this problem... too bad you just can't fix stupid and bigoted.
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Old 03-02-09, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bikesafer View Post
HoustonB,
I have tossed around that same idea but never figured out how to do it in a way that didn't put me at risk of either getting knocked off my bike each time the rod got hit or snapping back and hitting me. If you figure out how to make it work, let me and all of us know. I'd love to hear the response of the cop when I showed them the video with a yardstick smacking into the car as he went by.

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Jeff
Your efforts are noble and very much appreciated !
Thank you !

I was thinking of a short piece of PVC tubing hose clamped to the rack of
my folder that stuck out about 2.5 ft and when flexed forward by a passing
car,bigfoot truck etc, would hit the button to an AirZounds horn aimed outward
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Old 03-02-09, 07:54 AM
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On the plus side, this Fox report took the whole issue of "sharing the road" right out to the public. I firmly believe that the biggest issue is that the driving public does not understand the laws. I find it even more interesting that Law Enforcement also does not know the laws.
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Old 03-02-09, 08:23 AM
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Law enforcement often doesn't know laws. I've read state law over the phone and had an officer tell me I'm wrong. It's odd.

In the 1970s I rode with a folding traffic spacer. I think it worked. Never had it tapped. It was a 2 footer with a flag. Some kind of springy folding system and a fiberglass rod. Perhaps a bang stick with 12 g buck would work. Then the offending vehicle would be easy to spot.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:17 AM
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Definitely thought about doing this. If nothing else so my heirs can know I didn't swerve in front of the person that hit me.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:22 AM
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I need to stay away from these threads for my own mental health.
Every time I see this stuff I can only wonder, "How the F did it get
to this ?!?!?!"

When did it come to pass that cars have divine dominion over....everything ?!?!?
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Old 03-02-09, 10:42 AM
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Those of you contemplating doing this yourself, more power to you. But if you have some type of rod, tube or dowel type device stick out so many feet from your bike, with camera attached to it or not aren't you defeating the purpose? You want police and the media to see how close they get to you, not to some piece stick 2' out form your bike.

Not to mention when a vehicle does hit it, no matter how flexible it can still catch it and not deflect and either pull and drag you in a direction you don't want to go, increase your speed to something you don't want to travel at or push you down into the patf of another vehicle, whether oncoming or otherwise. Please be careful if you pursue something like this.
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Old 03-02-09, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bikesafer View Post
Thanks for checking out the video, but as the cyclist in the story, I feel I have to correct you on something,

I never stated that if I am killed I will be dead right, the people who produced the story said that. I said I use the cameras so no matter what happens I will have proof that I was in the right.

Pipes,
I don't believe the producer or reporter got any "help from Fox" in doing this story, and I know I didn't get any help from anyone with my cameras. I've been riding with cameras for over a year now and I've been a professional photographer for more than 20 years. If I had any help from a major network I'm sure the video quality would have been better than it was. I can only afford the cheaper cameras not the HD lipstick cameras a network would have.

HoustonB,
I have tossed around that same idea but never figured out how to do it in a way that didn't put me at risk of either getting knocked off my bike each time the rod got hit or snapping back and hitting me. If you figure out how to make it work, let me and all of us know. I'd love to hear the response of the cop when I showed them the video with a yardstick smacking into the car as he went by.

Bikesafer
Jeff

My Frings, You're right it did come from the media, sorry for the mis-quote. Where did they get that idea anyway? Did you actually say something like that to them, or allude to that is how you feel?

Just to let you know I found the video on the bikeiowa.com web site; http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/...sp?NewsID=3690

I put a post about it on my Advocacy and Safety blog;
http://bicycleadvocacyandsafety.blogspot.com/

When you consulted with the attorney who helped you find proof about cyclists rights to the roadways did you go back to the police dept. and the prosecutor who wrote you the letter to show they are incorrect? Or did the attorney you consulted with send them a letter? What was the outcome of that?

I have been thinking about contacting a local news station in my area to see about doing the same thing here. Only I don't have the small cameras. Maybe the news station does and they can outfit my bike with 3, one facing backward, one facing to the left and one facing forward.

n the current Legislative Session in Des Moines it is being determined whether or not a new bicycle bill of rights law will be passed. It has already passed the Senate and now the House version has yet to be debated. Part of it includes a 5', NOT 3' passing law, along with others.
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Old 03-02-09, 12:00 PM
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cameras are a powerful tool and they are only going to get better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQYhs...e=channel_page
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Old 03-02-09, 12:10 PM
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I'd like to see the legal opinion the city attorney wrote agreeing with the cop that said the cyclist has no right to be on the road. Anyone have a cite for it?
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Old 03-02-09, 12:26 PM
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None of those people would have passed me that closely because I would have been about 4 feet further to the left.
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Old 03-02-09, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
None of those people would have passed me that closely because I would have been about 4 feet further to the left.
Unless, of course, they pass you that closely, or even closer, as they go around you.
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Old 03-02-09, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
Unless, of course, they pass you that closely, or even closer, as they go around you.
Or passed him just as closely, or even closer on the right.
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Old 03-02-09, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
Unless, of course, they pass you that closely, or even closer, as they go around you.
I've never had that happen. Part of the problem in his video is a reluctance for the motorist to cross the dotted line. Once a motorist realizes that they are forced to cross the line they typically wait for a clearing and give a much wider distance.

Those lanes looked about 10 feet me. Its impossible for me to tell of course but anything less than 13-14 feet is to narrow to share with an auto. According to AASHTO is actually 14 but personally I've found 13 acceptable to me.
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Old 03-02-09, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
I've never had that happen. Part of the problem in his video is a reluctance for the motorist to cross the dotted line. Once a motorist realizes that they are forced to cross the line they typically wait for a clearing and give a much wider distance.

Those lanes looked about 10 feet me. Its impossible for me to tell of course but anything less than 13-14 feet is to narrow to share with an auto. According to AASHTO is actually 14 but personally I've found 13 acceptable to me.
Generally, you can't control a driver's behavior by your lane positioning. If a driver wants to give you room when the driver passes, the driver will give you room, no matter where you're positioned in the road. If a driver wants to f with you, the driver will f with you, no matter where you're positioned in the road.

If anything, the only difference that your lane positioning makes, in my experience, is that it infuriates some drivers enough to the point that they want to f with you when they pass.

Last edited by Blue Order; 03-02-09 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 03-02-09, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HoustonB View Post
I'm thinking of doing something similar but with a 3 foot, very thin, flexible rod that sticks out into traffic from the rear rack - the traffic (backward) facing side a mix of neutral colors, the camera facing side high visibility with heavy black lines at the 0, 1, 2 and 3 foot marks (3 feet starts at my elbow, not the bike).
Originally Posted by bikesafer View Post
HoustonB,
I have tossed around that same idea but never figured out how to do it in a way that didn't put me at risk of either getting knocked off my bike each time the rod got hit or snapping back and hitting me. If you figure out how to make it work, let me and all of us know. I'd love to hear the response of the cop when I showed them the video with a yardstick smacking into the car as he went by.
There's a device called a 'flash flag'
http://www.flashback.ca/bicycle.html
Dunno if they make them extend a full 3 feet, but ought to be safe enough since they're commercially manufactured.
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Old 03-02-09, 01:31 PM
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1. Thank you for doing this. These recordings will do more bicycle advocacy than our rants and cries... 2. Thanks for posting this. It's great and the word needs to be spread.

RIDE ON!
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Old 03-02-09, 01:35 PM
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Do what a guy I have seen does- he has some kind of broken aluminum girder sticking off the left side of his rear rack about a food and a half. It's decent sized and shiny, so very visible, and I bet nobody cuts too close out of fear of scratches.
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Old 03-02-09, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
Generally, you can't control a driver's behavior by your lane positioning. If a driver wants to give you room when the driver passes, the driver will give you room, no matter where you're positioned in the road. If a driver wants to f with you, the driver will f with you, no matter where you're positioned in the road.

If anything, the only difference that your lane positioning makes, in my experience, is that it infuriates some drivers enough to the point that they want to f with you when they pass.
I doubt you have much experience with proper lane positioning then.
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