Cycling on a 4-lane divided highway?
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My question to the masses is this..... Why would anyone choose to ride on a high speed highway in this manner when a nicely paved, wide, uncrowded bike path exists next to the road? While I understand the rights of cyclists, as a motorist familiar with this section of road I do not appreciate the reason for riding in the road. I feel it is not only dangerous to the biker, but puts motorists at danger as well.
There's one busy intersection in town (6 lanes crossing 5 lanes) and I regularly have to go through on a left turn. I merge through traffic to take the left with the car traffic every time. It's safe, its within my rights, and it saves me waiting through a light change taking the crosswalks.
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Is it possible the highway rider needed to go somewhere where the path does not? Perhaps there was a left turn ahead or a store etc that just is not accessible from the path.
Is this a possibility?
Is this a possibility?
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Had to run out again (this time motoring), so I took a snapshot of the area in question. The bike path is also in the picture.
I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.
I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.
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Fred "The Real Fred"
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I am not sure I mentioned the law. Regardless, if I misjudged and misreported his speed so be it. To me, for where he was and the conditions around him, going slower would only make it more of a safety issue since he was in the lane. I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him. If traffic were lighter than it was at that time, I'd probably not think much of it. But, with a line of cars high tailing it down the highway with a trunk full of groceries trying to get home, then that's my concern. I know when I'm driving my car behind a big SUV it blocks quite a bit of the sight line. If I were to change lanes at the wrong time, without knowing/seeing a biker was going slow in a highway lane, I'd have to spend a lot of money in therapy. I'd rather not do that.
I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.
I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.
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I suppose it could be. I didn't follow him or talk with him. I do know there is an intersection further up the road that is very difficult to navigate on a bike but by the time I got there he was gone. There's loads of shopping there, but the path also goes to a crosswalk crossing a busier road but with slower traffic. Maybe he just wanted to not have to deal with the crosswalk but it was still a few miles away. It is a tough intersection because cars making a right turn just don't stop or look at the path crossing. They are only worried about other cars. Imagine that!
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I have seen people doing things on bicycles that I wouldn't do. On the other hand, I have been wrong about that in the past. For example, near me there are two parallel roads that are 1/2 mile apart. One has nice shoulders and a 55mph speed limit and is a Pennsylvania designated bike route. The other is a road with a 35mph speed limit and no shoulder. Now I realize that it's safer to ride on the road with the higher speed limit. I also used to think that riding on an interstate was forbidden until I moved to Utah and found out that there really was no other way to get some places by bike. One of my favorite rides out there was on an interstate.
Our main drag in town has a "bike lane" next to it. It takes 20 minutes to negotiate a stretch of that road on the bike lane, and about 5 minutes on the road. The bike lane also puts you in a very bad position at every driveway and intersection. There are even stop signs at private driveways.
Our main drag in town has a "bike lane" next to it. It takes 20 minutes to negotiate a stretch of that road on the bike lane, and about 5 minutes on the road. The bike lane also puts you in a very bad position at every driveway and intersection. There are even stop signs at private driveways.
#33
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Amen, brother.
-Kurt
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With the sign there warning of a stop light I'd probably be in the road too... especially if I was going at any kind of speed.
Bike paths lose whatever speed and convenience factor they may have as soon as they have to cross a street at grade level... it's not safe to cross without stopping and making sure you're not about to get flattened, even if the cyclist has the right of way.
That said... if the cyclist was going anywhere even close to the speed you said then it's probably best for everyone that he IS on the street... do you really want a cyclist blowing past you at 30mph+ on a path??? It's not only scary, but it's against the law. (Speed limit on shared pathways in the state of Colorado is 15 mph)
Bike paths lose whatever speed and convenience factor they may have as soon as they have to cross a street at grade level... it's not safe to cross without stopping and making sure you're not about to get flattened, even if the cyclist has the right of way.
That said... if the cyclist was going anywhere even close to the speed you said then it's probably best for everyone that he IS on the street... do you really want a cyclist blowing past you at 30mph+ on a path??? It's not only scary, but it's against the law. (Speed limit on shared pathways in the state of Colorado is 15 mph)
#35
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I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.
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I am not sure I mentioned the law. Regardless, if I misjudged and misreported his speed so be it. To me, for where he was and the conditions around him, going slower would only make it more of a safety issue since he was in the lane. I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him. If traffic were lighter than it was at that time, I'd probably not think much of it. But, with a line of cars high tailing it down the highway with a trunk full of groceries trying to get home, then that's my concern. I know when I'm driving my car behind a big SUV it blocks quite a bit of the sight line. If I were to change lanes at the wrong time, without knowing/seeing a biker was going slow in a highway lane, I'd have to spend a lot of money in therapy. I'd rather not do that.
I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.
I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.
Learn how to drive. EVERYONE, including many cyclists have this notion that if they drive the speed limit that if they kill someone its really the bicyclists, childs etc fault.
I talk to people everyday who say, "I wish they did not ride in the road...if I hit one I would have to live with that the rest of my life when they were the ones who chose to bicycle there!"
urgh
Slow Down
That car in front of you....you should be 4 seconds behind it. Yes, you will look weird and some people will honk but its the safest way to operate that lethal weapon your sitting in.
#38
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I *hate* that attitude. Ever heard of the 4 second rule? If a cat was sitting in the lane I would not hit it let alone a cyclist.
Learn how to drive. EVERYONE, including many cyclists have this notion that if they drive the speed limit that if they kill someone its really the bicyclists, childs etc fault.
I talk to people everyday who say, "I wish they did not ride in the road...if I hit one I would have to live with that the rest of my life when they were the ones who chose to bicycle there!"
urgh
Slow Down
That car in front of you....you should be 4 seconds behind it. Yes, you will look weird and some people will honk but its the safest way to operate that lethal weapon your sitting in.
Learn how to drive. EVERYONE, including many cyclists have this notion that if they drive the speed limit that if they kill someone its really the bicyclists, childs etc fault.
I talk to people everyday who say, "I wish they did not ride in the road...if I hit one I would have to live with that the rest of my life when they were the ones who chose to bicycle there!"
urgh
Slow Down
That car in front of you....you should be 4 seconds behind it. Yes, you will look weird and some people will honk but its the safest way to operate that lethal weapon your sitting in.
Being seen is key. Surely everyone knows that or there wouldn't be such a market for lights, vests, etc. Time is key when you are not seen. The greater the speed differential the less time.
For the record, I don't try to hit bikes with my car and I ALWAYS give a biker plenty of room. Ugh!!!
#39
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Folks on BF, and A&S in particular really need to lighten up and get a sense of humor.
BTW, I'm probably fatter than you (curse these winter bike layoffs) and I do wear cycling shorts. Can't get myself to put on a silly looking jersey though. I'll stick with a normal colored one with my reflective vest.
Guess I'd rather look like a fred than racer boy!
#40
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If you drive within the speed limit and keep a large buffer zone in front, it is virtually impossible to hit anything, cyclists included. The problem is too many drivers overspeed and tailgate. I believe this does cause safety issues for cyclists, and is why many avoid certain roads and situations.
#41
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If you drive within the speed limit and keep a large buffer zone in front, it is virtually impossible to hit anything, cyclists included. The problem is too many drivers overspeed and tailgate. I believe this does cause safety issues for cyclists, and is why many avoid certain roads and situations.
That said, here's a reason why even ideal traffic conditions can still mean you might not be seen. I know drivers are often to blame for the way they drive, but forward blind spots exist in all automobiles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_visibility
#42
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I think that tailgating is an issue. Speeding, not so much, unless it is extremely excessive.
I think both of these pale in comparison to the real culprit......people driving with their heads up their arses.
PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!
I would like to say I am never guilty of DWHUMA, but, I am. And I believe most everyone here is at times. This is why I get annoyed by the take the lane zealots who say screw those cages.
I'd rather assume that cage pilots are going to do dumb things and do what I can to avoid becoming their victims.
It is a two sided problem. We need to be more aware while driving our 3000 lb battering rams and we need to do what we can as cyclists to avoid them when practicable.
We do have to share the road. And riding with the attitude of screw'em, I'm a vehicle too, isn't going to help when you are under their wheels.
Ride safe and assume that every cage you see is piloted by a moron, because a fair number are. If this means taking a longer route or one of those sissy MUPs on occasion, so be it.
I think both of these pale in comparison to the real culprit......people driving with their heads up their arses.
PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!
I would like to say I am never guilty of DWHUMA, but, I am. And I believe most everyone here is at times. This is why I get annoyed by the take the lane zealots who say screw those cages.
I'd rather assume that cage pilots are going to do dumb things and do what I can to avoid becoming their victims.
It is a two sided problem. We need to be more aware while driving our 3000 lb battering rams and we need to do what we can as cyclists to avoid them when practicable.
We do have to share the road. And riding with the attitude of screw'em, I'm a vehicle too, isn't going to help when you are under their wheels.
Ride safe and assume that every cage you see is piloted by a moron, because a fair number are. If this means taking a longer route or one of those sissy MUPs on occasion, so be it.
#43
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I'm guessing that was his concern too. You see, if he was going 45mph, that would be going 10mph less than those on the road, and about 35 to 45 mph faster than those on the MUP. (It's a multi use path, it was not marked as a bike lane.) As the slowest thing on the road people coming upon him will tend to see him and move around him if he is acting in a reliable manner. I assume he wasn't veering left and right, and was holding his lane. Now MUPs are a great place to find things moving in the least reliable manner possible, at much slower speeds than you can imagine, and sometimes stopped entirely. That is what he was afraid of hitting. If you are really moving on a bike, a child with training wheels in front of you is much more scary than a truck behind you. And, from your description, he was really moving.
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I'm guessing that was his concern too. You see, if he was going 45mph, that would be going 10mph less than those on the road, and about 35 to 45 mph faster than those on the MUP. (It's a multi use path, it was not marked as a bike lane.) As the slowest thing on the road people coming upon him will tend to see him and move around him if he is acting in a reliable manner. I assume he wasn't veering left and right, and was holding his lane. Now MUPs are a great place to find things moving in the least reliable manner possible, at much slower speeds than you can imagine, and sometimes stopped entirely. That is what he was afraid of hitting. If you are really moving on a bike, a child with training wheels in front of you is much more scary than a truck behind you. And, from your description, he was really moving.
#45
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I'm guessing that was his concern too. You see, if he was going 45mph, that would be going 10mph less than those on the road, and about 35 to 45 mph faster than those on the MUP. (It's a multi use path, it was not marked as a bike lane.) As the slowest thing on the road people coming upon him will tend to see him and move around him if he is acting in a reliable manner. I assume he wasn't veering left and right, and was holding his lane. Now MUPs are a great place to find things moving in the least reliable manner possible, at much slower speeds than you can imagine, and sometimes stopped entirely. That is what he was afraid of hitting. If you are really moving on a bike, a child with training wheels in front of you is much more scary than a truck behind you. And, from your description, he was really moving.
#46
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(snip) To me, for where he was and the conditions around him, going slower would only make it more of a safety issue since he was in the lane. I guess my concern isn't his speed as much as it is the speed differential between him and what is coming upon him. If traffic were lighter than it was at that time, I'd probably not think much of it. But, with a line of cars high tailing it down the highway with a trunk full of groceries trying to get home, then that's my concern.
In tens of thousands of encounters with motorists on high-speed multi-lane roads like the one you took a picture of, this situation that you fear has never happened to me. My experiences have convinced my that the likely-hood of such an event to be vanishingly small. I am probably in greater peril of injury in my shower than while taking the lane.
I'd not ride in the road where I describe. Then again, I'm a recreational biker and sometimes commuter. I stick to roads I feel safe on and paths. I tend to go out of my way to ride a safer route if at all possible. But, that's just me. You can call it an experience issue if it applies. I'd rather just say it is comfort.
#47
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The behavior of motorists on such highways can be observed here: https://www.cyclistview.com/overtaking/index.htm
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I think that tailgating is an issue. Speeding, not so much, unless it is extremely excessive.
I think both of these pale in comparison to the real culprit......people driving with their heads up their arses.
PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!
I would like to say I am never guilty of DWHUMA, but, I am. And I believe most everyone here is at times. This is why I get annoyed by the take the lane zealots who say screw those cages.
I'd rather assume that cage pilots are going to do dumb things and do what I can to avoid becoming their victims.
It is a two sided problem. We need to be more aware while driving our 3000 lb battering rams and we need to do what we can as cyclists to avoid them when practicable.
We do have to share the road. And riding with the attitude of screw'em, I'm a vehicle too, isn't going to help when you are under their wheels.
Ride safe and assume that every cage you see is piloted by a moron, because a fair number are. If this means taking a longer route or one of those sissy MUPs on occasion, so be it.
I think both of these pale in comparison to the real culprit......people driving with their heads up their arses.
PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!
I would like to say I am never guilty of DWHUMA, but, I am. And I believe most everyone here is at times. This is why I get annoyed by the take the lane zealots who say screw those cages.
I'd rather assume that cage pilots are going to do dumb things and do what I can to avoid becoming their victims.
It is a two sided problem. We need to be more aware while driving our 3000 lb battering rams and we need to do what we can as cyclists to avoid them when practicable.
We do have to share the road. And riding with the attitude of screw'em, I'm a vehicle too, isn't going to help when you are under their wheels.
Ride safe and assume that every cage you see is piloted by a moron, because a fair number are. If this means taking a longer route or one of those sissy MUPs on occasion, so be it.
When I take the lane "screw them" is really the last thing I'm thinking. I'm thinking that *I know* that the lane is too narrow to share but a motorist might not and try to squeeze past. When taking the lane I make it more obvious. If anything it leads to far less conflicts than more conflicts.
The last 5 bicyclists injured in my city were.........
-Drunk guy riding at night without lights who turned in front of a car
-sidewalk rider hit in crosswalk
-sidewalk rider hit in crosswalk
-sidewalk rider hit in crosswalk
-guy cowering to the far right in an 11 foot lane, was hit by a mirror, knocked from his bicycle and landed in the ditch.
Its the same thing all over the United States. To each his own but the law allows bicyclists to take the lane FOR A REASON. It was not pushed and passed by the "screw cagers" movement of 1957.
Trying to "stay out of the way" like sidewalk riders or the guys who fear taking an assertive position is the real danger.
#49
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Had to run out again (this time motoring), so I took a snapshot of the area in question. The bike path is also in the picture.
I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.
I thank everyone for their input to this discussion. Yes, even those who are a bit snitty! I can be that way myself. In the end, discussion is all in good fun, right? Anyway, given the view of the road and path feel free to contribute or change your mind. It should be noted, traffic was heavier this afternoon than this evening when the picture was taken.
IMO, in that pic, it's only mildly moronic to ride on that highway... on the shoulder. It's absolutely stupid to take a lane on that road.
But, hey, it's probably some jackhole who's going to claim that "it's my right to take the lane", and will expect that it will magically save them when some driver sneezes while texting at 70 mph and blasts them into the grass.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather simply come home safely than force my family to deal with my bloodied remains while making attempts to prosecute the driver in court.
#50
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^^^ Your assumption of what will happen to a cyclist who rides these types of roads doesn't seem to match the experiences of those who actually do.