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Imagining a city without cars

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Imagining a city without cars

Old 04-06-09, 10:35 PM
  #76  
genec
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Originally Posted by randya View Post
So what does a safe segregated facility for bikes look like? I refer you to the proposed City of Portland cycle tracks, which I do not believe to be a safe design, for the reasons discussed in that thread.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=524247
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=526213
Just like a freeway for cars... only with lower speeds and narrower. Oulu Finland has such facilities all over, and they are wonderful.

San Diego has one short stretch of such a place.

Such facilities are not hard to imagine, and really in the US, freeway designers have plenty of experience designing segregated facilities that are quite successful in being segregated facilities. This sort of thing should be no shock to anyone... except those that don't believe in such well designed facilities.

Here is a short movie showing such a bikeway in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgUkNxUE0wc

But again, such bikeways don't have to go everywhere. We just need to stop treating roadways as the exclusive domain of automobiles. Shared roadways need to be built and maintained at a human scale. Consider what Hans Monderman has done to shared space and again you have both an answer and an example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

It simply comes down to NOT making every space the exclusive domain of the automobile... it really is that simple.
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Old 04-06-09, 11:53 PM
  #77  
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the bottom line in Portland is that separated bikeways work best along the rivers and other natural features, where there are few if any intersections, rails to trails has also been moderately successful, but I don't think separated sidepaths in closely gridded inner city neighborhoods make any sense at all, there are just too many intersections to deal with, and the streets are already relatively safe for cyclists. California has newer more auto oriented suburban development in a lot of places, and different topography, so paying attention to local conditions during the design phase is critical, but even though you can't just pick something up from Holland and plop it down out of context in the middle of the typical US city, it doesn't mean you can't make other beneficial design and infrastructure changes.
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Old 04-07-09, 01:04 AM
  #78  
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I already commented on the proposed cycletrack on the Portland Park Blocks, which will destroy a perfectly good low-traffic cycling street. However, Portland also have a number of MUPs, which have proven useful, and a number of trails are slated to be significantly extended. They have their limitations, as they can fill up with dog-walkers and roller-bladers in the desireable areas and transients and thugs in the not-so-desireable areas. During commute hours though, they seem to work really well. Perhaps they could widen them and segregate them for pedestrians and cyclists. (Hmmm, I'm not sure which lane the skateboarders and roller-bladers would use....)

I'm not in favor of installing cycletracks along low-speed 25 mph streets or even three-lane 30 mph streets (which are okay with or without standard bike lanes, IMO). I don't believe that they would work along our least bikeable streets -- namely 45-55 mph arterial roads -- as such streets are full of parking lot entrances that open cyclists up to multiple hooks per block. Amsterdam is architecturally different -- most of their cycletracks don't run along streets full of strip malls. In the U.S., I guess I would favor them as trails that run through open/green areas and don't necessarily follow the paths of any given street. Think Sunriver, Oregon; Davis, California or Oulu, Finland.

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Old 04-07-09, 06:27 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Metzinger View Post
Obviously one needn't be anti-car to be pro bike.
I would much rather imagine a city without idiots than a city without cars ( not directed at the quote or quoted).

Cars are inanimate objects. Except for their pollution generating capability and natural resource gobbling capacity ... I have no objections to cars.

What I do hate is when the blame is placed on cars for what the stupid idiot driver does. Why not blame the evil idiot drivers (which all drivers of cars are not)?

I don't waste time imagining carless anythings. I prefer to imagine a city without idiots.

Now that would be a nice place to ride a bicycle.
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Old 04-07-09, 06:42 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by tippy View Post
I don't waste time imagining carless anythings. I prefer to imagine a city without idiots.
That, unfortunately, will be an unrealized dream for us all.

Originally Posted by chriswnw View Post
... arterial roads...
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Old 04-07-09, 06:49 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by tippy View Post
I would much rather imagine a city without idiots than a city without cars ( not directed at the quote or quoted).
Plenty of idiot cyclists about. Like the one I saw last night riding without lights the wrong way on a one way street. Fortunately, there was little traffic.
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Old 04-07-09, 09:05 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by tippy View Post
I would much rather imagine a city without idiots than a city without cars
Now you're getting all John Lennon on us
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Old 04-07-09, 03:53 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by chriswnw View Post
Now you're getting all John Lennon on us
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
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Old 04-07-09, 03:56 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
Plenty of idiot cyclists about.
Not in my idiotless city.
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Old 04-08-09, 06:27 AM
  #85  
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I say dream big. Dream carless and you might get a trippling or more of $ spent on bike-related improvements and a 30% reduction in cars. Dream bikelanes and funding will stay the same.
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