Cyclists: Vehicles or Accelerated Pedestrians?
04-13-09, 06:46 PM
#51
genec
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What I do want to imply is that Portland is doing something that the rest of the nation is not doing... and they are getting results from their actions. And making adjustments. Tuning the system. Even NYC has realized that adjustments have to be made, and an auto centric environment, in which cyclists "act like drivers" may not be the best answer.
04-13-09, 07:05 PM
#52
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
04-13-09, 08:58 PM
#53
it's easy if you let it.
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Somehow this seems to elude those that worship Forester.
Forester has never claimed to want to encourage people to bike. His claims and focus are geared toward those folks that love cycling for the sake of cycling. With that in mind, he does have some good ideas about how to use a bike in an auto centric environment. But he also praises the auto, and has exclaimed his love of the auto here on BF.
The reality is that our auto centric society has lead to an incredible change in the design of our cities; lead to the generally overweight American; and has fostered our heavy dependence on foreign oil. We simply need to find and encourage alternatives to the overpowered single passenger auto for some segments of our transit needs. Cycling for short distances offers the same passenger independence as the auto, without the long list of drawbacks that the auto brings. We need to encourage cycling in our cities. This latter area is where Forester and his ilk fall short.
Forester has never claimed to want to encourage people to bike. His claims and focus are geared toward those folks that love cycling for the sake of cycling. With that in mind, he does have some good ideas about how to use a bike in an auto centric environment. But he also praises the auto, and has exclaimed his love of the auto here on BF.
The reality is that our auto centric society has lead to an incredible change in the design of our cities; lead to the generally overweight American; and has fostered our heavy dependence on foreign oil. We simply need to find and encourage alternatives to the overpowered single passenger auto for some segments of our transit needs. Cycling for short distances offers the same passenger independence as the auto, without the long list of drawbacks that the auto brings. We need to encourage cycling in our cities. This latter area is where Forester and his ilk fall short.
04-13-09, 09:18 PM
#54
genec
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04-13-09, 10:29 PM
#55
Cycle Year Round
I rehash them over and over as long as there are new discussions and new readers. So basically you are saying that only the poor ride bikes? Funny, as Forester plainly discusses that professional folks tend to be the most prolific regular cyclists.
Are you saying that if you have a 3 million dollar condo downtown you are not likely to ride a bike?
Very odd that. I wonder who buys 7 thousand dollar bikes?
Are you saying that if you have a 3 million dollar condo downtown you are not likely to ride a bike?
Very odd that. I wonder who buys 7 thousand dollar bikes?
The triathlon guys that train and recreational ride, but do not commute (for the most part). Want to compare recreational and competition riders between Oahu, San Diego and Portland. Bet Oahu and San Diego easily beat Portland in that category.
Last edited by CB HI; 04-13-09 at 10:45 PM.
04-13-09, 10:32 PM
#56
Cycle Year Round
04-14-09, 06:03 AM
#57
genec
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Then take a look at what multiple areas (NOT just college towns) are doing to establish environments that are more conducive to people cycling for transportation.
04-14-09, 11:56 AM
#58
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Gene, how is it that you do not understand the word commute?
The triathlon guys that train and recreational ride, but do not commute (for the most part). Want to compare recreational and competition riders between Oahu, San Diego and Portland. Bet Oahu and San Diego easily beat Portland in that category.
The triathlon guys that train and recreational ride, but do not commute (for the most part). Want to compare recreational and competition riders between Oahu, San Diego and Portland. Bet Oahu and San Diego easily beat Portland in that category.
On top of all that, 600-700 people turned out for the De Ronde van Oeste Portland this year, probably one of the most grueling rides all year on the west coast.
https://bikeportland.org/2009/04/04/m...t-at-de-ronde/
https://bikeportland.org/2009/03/04/d...te-portlandia/
Last edited by randya; 04-14-09 at 01:17 PM.
04-14-09, 02:12 PM
#59
Cycle Year Round
I seriously doubt it. Portland's got a stellar velodrome, a very active cyclocross racing scene, weekly pelotons at the motorsports track during the season, a bunch of racing teams of all types and plenty of tri/roadie geeks to boot.
On top of all that, 600-700 people turned out for the De Ronde van Oeste Portland this year, probably one of the most grueling rides all year on the west coast.
https://bikeportland.org/2009/04/04/m...t-at-de-ronde/
https://bikeportland.org/2009/03/04/d...te-portlandia/
On top of all that, 600-700 people turned out for the De Ronde van Oeste Portland this year, probably one of the most grueling rides all year on the west coast.
https://bikeportland.org/2009/04/04/m...t-at-de-ronde/
https://bikeportland.org/2009/03/04/d...te-portlandia/
A reminder that Ironman Triathlons were invented in OAHU, Hawaii.
But even on a small island like Oahu, the Honolulu Century Ride draws 4,000 cyclist.
Not much cyclocross here, but Oahu's North Shore has hosted several of the Pro-Mountain Bike races.
Many racers and just recreational cyclist from Oahu travel over to Maui for both the road "Cycle To The Sun" race from Sea Level To The Summit of Maui's Haleakala Volcano: 36 miles, 10,000 Feet "Ride The Steepest Paved Road On Earth". The beneficiary of the 2009 Cycle To The Sun is the Lance Armstrong Foundation. https://cycletothesun.net/
And the off road mountain bike race on the other side of Haleakala.
Last edited by CB HI; 04-14-09 at 04:24 PM. Reason: correct mis-speak from Kona to OAHU
04-14-09, 03:03 PM
#60
genec
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Sounds like a fun ride.
A reminder that Ironman Triathlons were invented in Kona, Hawaii.
But even on a small island like Oahu, the Honolulu Century Ride draws 4,000 cyclist.
Not much cyclocross here, but Oahu's North Shore has hosted several of the Pro-Mountain Bike races.
Many racers and just recreational cyclist from Oahu travel over to Maui for both the road "Cycle To The Sun" race from Sea Level To The Summit of Maui's Haleakala Volcano: 36 miles, 10,000 Feet "Ride The Steepest Paved Road On Earth". The beneficiary of the 2009 Cycle To The Sun is the Lance Armstrong Foundation. https://cycletothesun.net/
And the off road mountain bike race on the other side of Haleakala.
A reminder that Ironman Triathlons were invented in Kona, Hawaii.
But even on a small island like Oahu, the Honolulu Century Ride draws 4,000 cyclist.
Not much cyclocross here, but Oahu's North Shore has hosted several of the Pro-Mountain Bike races.
Many racers and just recreational cyclist from Oahu travel over to Maui for both the road "Cycle To The Sun" race from Sea Level To The Summit of Maui's Haleakala Volcano: 36 miles, 10,000 Feet "Ride The Steepest Paved Road On Earth". The beneficiary of the 2009 Cycle To The Sun is the Lance Armstrong Foundation. https://cycletothesun.net/
And the off road mountain bike race on the other side of Haleakala.
and how many of the Iron man participants are from Kona? And of the Pro-Mountain tour, how many are just visiting the islands? And the Volcano ride, again how many folks are just visiting?
Hawaii is a great tourist location... been to several of the islands myself.
Regarding the Ironman... sounds as if the Navy had more to do with it than anything else. Not to mention San Diego.
On this occasion, U.S. Navy Commander John Collins pointed out that a recent article in Sports Illustrated magazine had declared that Eddy Merckx, the great Belgian cyclist, had the highest recorded "oxygen uptake" of any athlete ever measured, so perhaps cyclists were more fit than anyone. CDR Collins and his wife had taken part in the triathlons staged in 1974 and 1975 by the San Diego Track Club in and around Mission Bay, California, as well as the 1975 Optimist Sports Fiesta Triathlon in Coronado, California. A number of the other military athletes in attendance were also familiar with the San Diego races, so they understood the concept when CDR Collins suggested that the debate should be settled through a race combining the three existing long-distance competitions already on the island: the Waikiki Roughwater Swim (2.4 mi./3.86 km), the Around-Oahu Bike Race (115 mi./185.07 km; originally a two-day event) and the Honolulu Marathon (26.219 mi./42.195 km).
04-14-09, 03:52 PM
#61
Cycle Year Round
True Gene, most of the Pro-Mountain Racers may not be from Hawaii. But almost all of the people the sponsors want to reach, attending the event are. How many of the TDF Pro-Racers live in Paris, Gene? The majority are local Gene. Check out the race results of the top finishers before you open your mouth.
https://cycletothesun.net/results/results06.html
https://cycletothesun.net/results/agegroup06.html Lots of women from Hawaii too.
Gene, seems you missed posting the previous paragraph:
The idea for the original Ironman Triathlon arose during the awards ceremony for the 1977 Oahu Perimeter Relay (a running race for 5-person teams). Among the participants were numerous representatives of both the Mid-Pacific Road Runners and the Waikiki Swim Club, whose members had long been debating which athletes were more fit, runners or swimmers. Ironman Triathlon was the first major competition to extend the distance to an extreme endurance event. The first Ironman Triathlon was held on February 18, 1978 in Honolulu, Hawaii[1], repeated in 1979 and 1980.
04-14-09, 07:26 PM
#62
genec
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Oh yes, keep rolling your eyes Gene. As if every thing that happens in Hawaii just involves tourist, as if all of the cyclist in the Portland events are ALL from Portland. A very large number of the participants live both in Kona and also on the other islands. Go to Kona on any day (including any week day) and you will see several of them training on the roads north of Kona.
True Gene, most of the Pro-Mountain Racers may not be from Hawaii. But almost all of the people the sponsors want to reach, attending the event are.
How many of the TDF Pro-Racers live in Paris, Gene?
True Gene, most of the Pro-Mountain Racers may not be from Hawaii. But almost all of the people the sponsors want to reach, attending the event are.
How many of the TDF Pro-Racers live in Paris, Gene?
The majority are local Gene. Check out the race results of the top finishers before you open your mouth.
https://cycletothesun.net/results/results06.html
https://cycletothesun.net/results/agegroup06.html Lots of women from Hawaii too.
Maybe you should have tried getting out of the tourist traps for a day or two.
https://cycletothesun.net/results/results06.html
https://cycletothesun.net/results/agegroup06.html Lots of women from Hawaii too.
Maybe you should have tried getting out of the tourist traps for a day or two.
It is true the first three racers were on Oahu. It is not true that the Navy itself or San Diego played any part in the making of the first IRONMAN. What a leap for Gene to try and shoe horn San Diego into getting credit for putting together the ironman.
Gene, seems you missed posting the previous paragraph:
The idea for the original Ironman Triathlon arose during the awards ceremony for the 1977 Oahu Perimeter Relay (a running race for 5-person teams). Among the participants were numerous representatives of both the Mid-Pacific Road Runners and the Waikiki Swim Club, whose members had long been debating which athletes were more fit, runners or swimmers. Ironman Triathlon was the first major competition to extend the distance to an extreme endurance event. The first Ironman Triathlon was held on February 18, 1978 in Honolulu, Hawaii[1], repeated in 1979 and 1980.
Guess you just can't handle the truth.
Gosh with all those highly skilled cyclists on Hawaii, one would have to wonder why Oahu still only has a 2% modal share for TRANSPORTATION cyclists.
04-14-09, 08:52 PM
#63
totally louche
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why does Oahu have low rider share? A community without much bicycle friendly infrastructure, a lot of traffic congestion, and a minority of local, vocal obstructionists, ******ing infrastructure with their pipe dreams of a 4th grade cycling class for only some of the island locals.
a problem with portland's proposed Cycletracks is they aren't taking ENOUGH of the roadway away from cars to build them....
cyclists and motorists will always have intersection conflicts regardless of the intersection striping. well designed streetscapes can lessen these crossing conflicts. I've been riding a route in Seattle that went from a fourlane arterial to a two lane plus climbing bikelane with some high conflict intersections emphasized with green lane intersection treatments.
impressive.
more impressive still would be a bonifide commitment to moving bikes as transportation by turning over some serious street real estate into bonifide class 1 bikeway networks.
a problem with portland's proposed Cycletracks is they aren't taking ENOUGH of the roadway away from cars to build them....
cyclists and motorists will always have intersection conflicts regardless of the intersection striping. well designed streetscapes can lessen these crossing conflicts. I've been riding a route in Seattle that went from a fourlane arterial to a two lane plus climbing bikelane with some high conflict intersections emphasized with green lane intersection treatments.
impressive.
more impressive still would be a bonifide commitment to moving bikes as transportation by turning over some serious street real estate into bonifide class 1 bikeway networks.
Last edited by Bekologist; 04-15-09 at 08:47 AM.
04-15-09, 02:21 AM
#64
Cycle Year Round
04-15-09, 02:43 AM
#65
Cycle Year Round
04-15-09, 06:40 AM
#66
genec
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No. Honestly I think you do.
Well designed bicycle infrastructure encourages cycling much more than mere education alone.
BTW while you earlier eluded to the "bad" bike facilities of Portland... do you really believe that all of Portland's bike facilities are bad?
You have yet to answer that question. I really believe that IS the point!
Well designed bicycle infrastructure encourages cycling much more than mere education alone.
BTW while you earlier eluded to the "bad" bike facilities of Portland... do you really believe that all of Portland's bike facilities are bad?
You have yet to answer that question. I really believe that IS the point!
04-15-09, 06:40 AM
#67
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04-15-09, 09:54 PM
#68
Cycle Year Round
04-15-09, 10:00 PM
#69
Cycle Year Round
No. Honestly I think you do.
Well designed bicycle infrastructure encourages cycling much more than mere education alone.
BTW while you earlier eluded to the "bad" bike facilities of Portland... do you really believe that all of Portland's bike facilities are bad?
You have yet to answer that question. I really believe that IS the point!
Well designed bicycle infrastructure encourages cycling much more than mere education alone.
BTW while you earlier eluded to the "bad" bike facilities of Portland... do you really believe that all of Portland's bike facilities are bad?
You have yet to answer that question. I really believe that IS the point!
Deadly, mandatory use bike lanes and side paths/tracks, bike boxes are a total waste.
But we have been through that over and over and over again.
04-15-09, 10:25 PM
#70
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I've been trying to convince them to use sharrows instead of bike lanes for over ten years without success.
