G-money

In its effort to be more bike friendly, Boston has created a number of new bike paths on busy city roadways. You can't tell in the picture, but the space to the right of the bike path is all parking. The result is that the bike path is less than a foot from parked cars that typically line this street.

I nothink this is a potential disaster for bikers — the entire lane is squarely in the door zone of the parked cars! It is much safer for a biker to be in the lane, away from car doors, but now people will claim we should be in this dangerous bike path instead of taking the lane, which is a right guaranteed by state law.

Am I out of it, or is this a huge fail?

G-money

Not sure I posted the pic correctly, but here is a link to a site with pics of the new lane.

https://bostonbiker.org/2009/08/26/ne...-columbus-ave/

Speedo

I'm from out in the suburbs and usually take the T when I go into the big city. I've seen similar bike lanes in Cambridge. They look to me like doorings waiting to happen, but they seem to have a lot of people riding in them as opposed to riding out in the travel lane. Aside from your post, the responses in the link you posted were positive. It seems strange to me that people are happy about what looks like a dangerous situation. Maybe it's just so much better than it was before. I don't know what else to think.

Speedo

pacificaslim

You may be interested in San Francisco's study on "Sharrows". Rather than place the cyclist in the door zone, they actually increased both the distance the bikes rode from the parked cars, and also the distance the drivers gave the cyclists when passing them.

https://www.sfmta.com/cms/uploadedfil...ort-052404.pdf

Pscyclepath

Most designers have little idea about how on-street parking can affect bike lanes and the size of the "door zone" can vary widely, based on the width of the vehicle and the rider's courage/common sense with respect to how close he/she wants to shave that margin. Here are a few practical examples of where a safe riding position is when there are parked cars -- regardless of whether there is a bike lane striped there or not:

Door Zone Avoidance: (4-door car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TQ7aID1jHs

Avoiding the Door Zone (2-door car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YixMuZpm88

Even in communities which have far-to-the-right and mandatory bike lane rules, you're not required to put yourself into danger from this sort of stuff.

Ngchen

The bike lanes shown by the OP does seem to have the problem that bike lanes have when next to parallel parking in general, namely the door zone problem. Not sure myself what the optimal solution is, although I did calculate that having a total of 14 rather than 12 ft to fit the parking and bike lane (with a marked "no-go" zone for the bike) is one solution. Individual car parking spaces can be marked so that any poorly parked cars stand out, letting cyclists know of the added hazard.

Jim from Boston

Thanks for the link. I commute year round early in the morning from Kenmore Square to Norwood (the reverse commute) so I have plenty of traffic-free riding, and I don't need no stinking bike lanes. (parody quote).

My rule for avoiding doors is, like a gun, assume every car is loaded with a occupant ready to spring out from either side, even the right side when the car is stopped at a traffic light, and ride accordingly.

PluperfectArson

Many bike lanes seem to be near the door zone here in downtown Portland. It is not a huge deal, as long as you are aware of your surroundings. I have noticed some drivers even wait until I pass before they open their door, which is rather courteous.

Scan ahead, always be aware. You should make it out okay.

City designers should be more aware of these problems in the future, though.

pacificaslim

Another problem is that while pulling up to begin parallel parking, you have to creep through the bike lane and then stop and then back up...this gives plenty of time for a cyclist to come around the corner and ***** at you for being stopped in the bike lane. I got yelled at but responded with a quick, "just take the lane!". Cyclists and drivers both need to get over the idea that if there is a bike lane a bike can't stray from its lines.

duke_of_hazard

NOt just doorzones, but bike lanes suffer from three other major problems:

1) Right hooks at intersections
2) Debris accumulation from unswept road ( higher chance of flats )
3) Getting hit by drifting multi-tasking drive

Taking the lane and using your mirror solves all these problems.

PluperfectArson

4) Drains and other such items.

When I pull up at an intersection with a right-hand turn available, I pull far enough ahead to allow drivers to know I am there, in case they try to run me over. >:[

Digital_Cowboy

When approaching an intersection with a right turn lane and/or a left turn lane and one or more lanes for through traffic I find it safer to stay in the lane for through traffic. Unless of course I happen to be making either a left or right turn at the time then I will move into the appropriate lane.

PluperfectArson

Oh, I meant if I have to stop, and there happens to be no designated right turn lane.

Digital_Cowboy

Sorry, I thought when you said:

<quote>
When I pull up at an intersection with a right-hand turn available,
</quote>

That you meant that when you pulled up to a light at an intersection with a right hand turn lane.

unterhausen

just watch how far motorists move over next to parked cars. Around here, they go pretty wide around parked cars. Much further over than those bike lanes.

High Roller

Right you are. And bike lanes:

4) Position the cyclist where cross-traffic collisions are more likely, due to diminished sightlines and reduced cyclist conspicuity. Motorists don’t always look that far over to the side of the road.
5) Create an illusion of safety resulting in inattention blindness for both motorists and cyclists.
6) Encourage closer passes by overtaking motorists, a cruel irony since it is the unwarranted fear of overtaking collisions that has popularized these facilities.
7) Add costs to roadway construction and maintenance, money that would be better spent on education and enforcement for motorists and cyclists alike.
8) Reinforce motorists’ prejudices that cyclists do not belong on the road and provide vindication for the harassment of cyclists who are traveling on the roadway in a safe and lawful manner.
9) Help the motoring establishment keep cyclists out of the way, even if cyclists are made less safe in the process.
10) Earn federal highway transportations subsidies for states and local highway districts .

Ngchen

Well, right hooks can take place with or without a BL. But a well-designed BL would have the line dashed before intersections, reminding motorists to either (1) merge first before turning, or (2) check that the BL is clear before turning.

I agree with the debris accumulation issue, although IMHO the problem is often overblown.

As for getting hit by an inattentive multi-tasking driver, well, the risk is there for someone taking the lane too.

Ngchen

Are there actual, peer-reviewed studies that show an increase in cross-traffic collisions with a BL? Like everything bike oriented, it's actually notoriously hard to study because the BL tends to attract more (and less skilled) riders to the road. I seem to remember how some study showed a slight increase in relative safety with a BL; however, it may well be true that BL's actually do more for cars than bikes. Here's why.

If a bike is in the middle of a well-designed BL, and cars are passing, all the cars have to do is stay within the car lane, and there shouldn't be a problem. OTOH, if the BL weren't there, the cars may well have to slow down and work out a pass. Such would slow car traffic some.

When it comes to inattentive motorists, there is the counterargument that the existence of BLs would actually make them consider the existence of bikes anywhere. "Hey, what's that??"

I fully support educational efforts. IIRC at the end of quite a few BLs, there is a yellow or fluorescent green "Share the Road" sign (W11-1) which should get the point across. Let's face it. We'll never get the large volumes of cyclists that exist in places like Davis without building BLs on the major streets. It may not be right, but it's the truth.

duke_of_hazard

You are correct, but the odds are far less when taking the lane.

Ngchen

(With regard to getting hit by an inattentive driver)
How do you know that?

I-Like-To-Bike

Source for the "odds"? For lane taking risk or bike lane risk or "odds" for anything else of safety relevance? Or are you just chanting the Mantra of Conventional Wisdom?

duke_of_hazard

When I take the lane I am usually in the right tire patch, which puts many feet of space between me and the adjacent lane. Also most cars overtake me , few cars travel only in the passing lane. With my mirror I see this all unfold plenty in advance.

duke_of_hazard

There are few studies on this because there is not much precedent. 7000 miles of riding this way and I feel very safe. Riding in bike lanes I do not feel safe. I look at the other people on this forum who ride this way and I can tell they are smart and cautious people. I trust their opinions. If you dont trust mine , that is fine, makes no difference to me.

I-Like-To-Bike

Odds and risk levels are not determined by opinions.

A handful of cherry picked and/or biased anecdotes establishes the "odds", or the risk levels, eh?

It may be jes fine for y'all, but isn't worth spit for evaluating or managing cycling risk for individuals or populations of cyclists.

High Roller

My assertion is based on my own experience of transportation cycling in an urban environment for the last fifty years.

Right Cross Threats:
When I used to ride too close to the edge of the roadway, I experienced numerous close calls with motorists pulling out from driveways and side streets on the right. Changing my position farther to the left, well out of the bike lane if one is present, when approaching these potential conflicts has all but eliminated this threat, presumably because I am positioned where they are looking.

Left Hook Threats:
Moving farther into the lane, again well out of the bike lane, at intersections conveys a clearer message to oncoming left turners that I am going straight through the intersection, and fewer motorists attempt to turn in front of me.

What I've managed to learn, and how I've applied it to help me survive on the road all these years, carries a lot more weight with me than the statistically questionable results of some peer-reviewed study.