travis200

I would be in posistion 6 as well.

Michel Gagnon

The "X" is generally the best, whereas position "5" would be better if one lane is for "straight ahead and left turn" and you are not sure that the car ahead is indeed turning left..

I see a few limiting factors that might change my mind:

- traffic too dense or visibility too bad to move left safely, in which case I would do a 2-step left turn;
- riding with new cyclists (my 8 year old, for instance), who still lack some skills.

Oxymoron

If the car behind might go straight I would tend to stay in the lane to block them. But, in general I would stay to the right of the lane slightly behind the car - position 6. Ever since I was in my car and got rear-ended while stopped at a light I have been skeptical about putting myself between the car in front of me and the one coming from behind who wants to crush me. A minor impact would throw you pretty hard into the car in front of you. It would be like that car I saw that got rear-ended by a semi and pushed into the semi in front of them at 50 mph. They had to strain him out of his car, which at that point was about two feet long. Not me, I want to be thrown clear.

And I figure the odds are you eventually will be rear-ended.

noisebeam

Position 6 is what I take - generally the position where you are directly behind the exhaust pipe of the car in front of you, yuck.

If I go to the right of the car in the lane (not taking it) - it seems always that the next car behind will come up on my directl left. This bugs me as I do not like performing a turn with cars on my left also turning (or not) On the green light if I let car get ahead, then the car beind them gets on my left. So I always partially take the lane (pos. 6) and hope I don't (and don't think about) getting rear ended.

Al

khuon

I guess maybe I'm generally faster through the intersection than most? Or maybe it's because the traffic sees me and thus stays behind until we're through the intersection? I rarely get passed in the middle of the turn and when it does happen, there's plenty of space as I've usually taken a wider arc while most drivers tend to "cut the turn" more. I'm usually in position #4 but slightly ahead. This gives me visibility of all the traffic at the head of the intersection as well as allows oncoming and cross-traffic to see me too. The car in the diagram usually spots me as I'm ahead of them and they're generally watching for cross-traffic even in a protected-turn environment.

madpogue 

The thing about position X is that you're behind the car's right side. Not all cars have a right-side door mirror. And if their inside rear view is blocked by cargo, they won't see you. I find I'm most likely to make thru-the-mirror eye contact with drivers in front of me via their driver's side door mirror (i.e. from position 5). It's also the only mirror all motor vehicles must have. For example, if you're behind a truck or bus without an inside rear-view mirror, you're more likely to be seen in the driver's left-hand mirror than in the right-hand mirror.

In either case, I would not be so far left or right as to imply that another vehicle could pull up next to me. I'd be close enough to center to prevent this, but also be seen in at least one of the mirrors of the vehicle in front. This may mean having to be a ways behind the vehicle ahead, but of course, this would apply even if you were pulling up behind it in another motor vehicle.

Same thing would apply to the 1-2 case. That is, if you're going to go "faster than traffic" (actually, faster than other traffic), then you should be somewhere between 1 and 2, so nobody will pull up next to you.

"Behind the exhaust pipe" is kinda meaningless, as it can be on either the right or left side of any given car.

noisebeam

I did not mean behind the exhaust pipe as a position. I indicated that I mostly take postion 6, which tends to be behind the exhaust pipe - yes some cars have the exhaust on the left, but my experience is that most cars around here have it on the right.

Al

Oxymoron

Because it's always best to build cars so the exhaust pipe is nearest all cyclists, pedestrians, sidewalk cafes and front porches! Would hate to place it near the center of the road where the drivers must breathe it first. I mean they have their health to think about...

khuon

Porsche Boxter, Mini Coopers, Corvettes and Ferarris among other cars have center mounted exhaust pipes. The problem with routing the exhaust pipes to the center in most car designs is that you generally have to contend with the fuel tank. There are of course ways around this as evidenced by the aforementioned cars but it's still a design consideration that need not be dealt with if you can route to one side or another. Would you rather everyone drive a Hummer where the exhaust exits the hood?

noisebeam

Speaking of exhaust - one of my bigger annoyances is being passed or behind a vehicle that is buring oil and spewing thick & stinky exhaust. The worst is that it often lingers by the side of the road and after that car passes I need to ride thru it.

Al

s2sxiii

No doubt the dumbest question ever. Only with the advocacy and safety folks, i suppose, can this question go on for two pages.......

personally, i approach the car on the left, look at the driver, get directly in front of him, track stand until the light changes, then move to the right as i take off faster than him. This assumes there is traffic in the left lane, otherwise i'd just ride down the middle of that, then wait and move right once the car passed. but then again, i'm a "BAD cyclist"

Oxymoron

Actually now that I think about it I would do it "Mentos" style: Bunny hop over the back of the car and ride up over the top, down the windshield, hop off the hood and blow the light while looking back, popping a Mentos in my mouth and smirking like a European. Or would the Mentos guy ride through one open door of the car and out the other?

Allister

I'd rather it exits inside the vehicle. Let 'em suck up their own spew. I mean, it must be harmless stuff, otherwise they'd never allow it into the atmosphere.

But seriously, there must be a better way of dealing with this stuff than simply dumping it out in public. At the very least there should be some sort of cylonic filtration to remove the heavier particles for later, more appropriate disposal.

khuon

To be fair, lots of things emit toxic fumes. Hell, us cyclists as humans emit toxic fumes such as carbon dioxide. And I know I emit other toxic fumes depending on what I eat. But I agree with you, engine emissions can be cleaned up. I think Honda proved that to an extent. And eliminating the reciprocating ICE as we know it today should really be the end-goal. I more than once heard it said that were engineers faced with the same technological requirements today given a clean slate and asked to design a powerplant of some sort, the reciprocating engine would not come to be. But now how about we move this discussion to another thread since I think we're grossly off-topic?

LittleBigMan

I don't claim to be right, and I like Smaug's answer of picking the rightmost turn lane behind the car, but I think I'd carve out a new position, also behind the car, but on it's right rear wheel.

A lot depends on where you want to be after turning. I might take the inside turn lane if I wanted to be in that lane after making the turn. But that's a different thing.

Smaug

Yeah... you go ahead and do this... I'll be seeing you in my ER when you get nailed by a car someday. Maybe if you ask politely, all of us safety and advocacy geeks will sign your casts.

You may think I posted the "dumbest question ever" but seeing as there has been a nice healty discussion about it, and this IS an Advocacy and SAFETY forum your opinion seems to be in the minority... Also seeing as we have gotten a variety of answers, the solution isn't quite as obvious to some of us degenerate morons who aren't blessed with your stunning wisdom and cycling prowess. Well gosh golly, maybe we can just all post another "why-should-I-wear-a-helmet" thread, or the ever popular "some-dude-in-an-SUV-almost-ran-me-over-today". Didn't your mother ever teach you that good to follow rule in life, "If you don't have anything nice to say... shut the f@ck up!"?

have a nice day!

/rant. man, it's been a long day and I'm a little testy right now. growl.

s2sxiii

Oh would you? sign my cast i mean!! and you can draw a cool dragon with a missing scale on his chest, and maybe a little hobbit burglar'ing his treasures...

I'd be testy too if i had to ask where to put my bike at every red light. My comments were directed at the general (ludicriousness? lucridity? ahh ridiculousness), in my mind, of trying to break down what should be an enjoyable, organic experience of constant one-ness with the traffic, flowing with it and adappting to changes, into a science of "if car A is in lane 1, and car B is in lane 2 3m behind, and i want to go left and into the right lane, where should i be..." If you're looking for the safest place to be on your bike it's "NOT IN TRAFFIC" (note the emphasis). Just ride where you're comfortable. I'm amazed people could talk about it for this long.

operator

Troll alert.

LittleBigMan

I can do that.

LittleBigMan

I suppose you also maintain a 45 mph cruising speed as traffic flows neatly behind you.

Ryan

What do you have to pass a test on the internet, to get certified?

Da Tinker

No, he went through a LCI seminar, and proved, by both exam and practical demonstration, that he is worthy of certification by the League of American Bicyclists.
As did I.

https://www.bikeleague.org/educenter/education.htm