Remember this Incident? NYPD Sued for $1.5 Million
10-14-09, 05:16 PM
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10-15-09, 09:36 AM
#27
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Expounded on the topic, you say. Here's your exposé:
Then again, that's not how the real world works, is it? The city will settle out of court to avoid going to trial to defend a case that seemingly cannot be won, and to avoid the possibility of a jury awarding even more than the 1.5 million asked. Ultimately, Long will receive a larger settlement because it's a slam dunk case involving liability on NYC. I don't think that, in and of itself, justifies greater compensation.
I believe the settlement will be tax free too.
I believe the settlement will be tax free too.
You are forgetting the part about being wrongfully arrested and charged on various accounts, including assault of a police officer. THAT is the damage, the thing that really hurts and calls for retribution! Sorry for the bold, just wanted to point out the main part.
10-15-09, 07:09 PM
#28
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You are forgetting the part about being wrongfully arrested and charged on various accounts, including assault of a police officer. THAT is the damage, the thing that really hurts and calls for retribution! Sorry for the bold, just wanted to point out the main part.
I don't know the specifics myself, so I'm willing to go no further than to speculate and offer opinion. Sounds like you've already passed judgment.
It's getting colder here in Chicago, but at least I have my cynicism to keep me warm.
10-15-09, 07:43 PM
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Fortunately, you're in Finland and therefore ineligible for jury selection should this suit go to trial. You won't have the opportunity to act on your preconceived notions of the totality of case before knowing the specifics which may or may not justify a 1.5 million dollar payday.
I don't know the specifics myself, so I'm willing to go no further than to speculate and offer opinion. Sounds like you've already passed judgment.
It's getting colder here in Chicago, but at least I have my cynicism to keep me warm.
I don't know the specifics myself, so I'm willing to go no further than to speculate and offer opinion. Sounds like you've already passed judgment.
It's getting colder here in Chicago, but at least I have my cynicism to keep me warm.
Now put yourself into Mr. Long's shoes. That is what Mr. Long has to deal with now concerning cops. How is he suppose to trust cops after not only being assaulted by one, but having had several false charges filed against him to justify said assault.
10-15-09, 08:17 PM
#30
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Fortunately, you're in Finland and therefore ineligible for jury selection should this suit go to trial. You won't have the opportunity to act on your preconceived notions of the totality of case before knowing the specifics which may or may not justify a 1.5 million dollar payday.
I don't know the specifics myself, so I'm willing to go no further than to speculate and offer opinion. Sounds like you've already passed judgment.
It's getting colder here in Chicago, but at least I have my cynicism to keep me warm.
I don't know the specifics myself, so I'm willing to go no further than to speculate and offer opinion. Sounds like you've already passed judgment.
It's getting colder here in Chicago, but at least I have my cynicism to keep me warm.
What is MUCH, MUCH worse, however, is that the cop then used his position of trust and respect to falsify police reports, conspire with his fellow officers (you think they weren't in on it?), perjure himself, and slander a citizen. He'd have gotten away with it, too, if someone hadn't happened to be filming it with a video camera.
That should scare the crap out of you, it does me.
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"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
10-16-09, 07:40 AM
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While I am usuall very supportive of the police, this is totally unacceptical. However 1.5 million is kind of stupid. Excessively high payouts hurt everone.
10-16-09, 07:47 AM
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Speaking of which, when will charges be filed against the ex-officer?
10-16-09, 07:55 AM
#33
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Everyone, everyone everyone other than the victim is insured specifically for this reason. The Police Assoc., his union, and the City....For a rookie to behave in such a manner says bad training, terrible supervision, and a myriad of other negative things in one of the world's most famous police forces. Sue for all the money in the state then settle for an obscene amount, the cops actions after the fact trying to cover it make the suit a slam dunk.
10-16-09, 03:16 PM
#34
Senior Member
Given the mental and emotional trauma the rider suffered I'm not sure that $1.5 million really is enough. I mean he's been so traumatized by the event that he no longer lives in NYC. Those are the scars that will last a lot longer and run a lot deeper then any physical injury that he received from being body slammed to the ground by the cop.
10-18-09, 02:04 PM
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I'm glad to see the cop was summarily dismissed for his behavior, but I have no doubt that he would still be on the job today were it not for the video. I see no reason why a person's testimony should be considered more credible than the average person just because they wear a badge, but such is the case in this society. As more videos like these emerge, it's becoming plainly obvious what a fallacy that is.
I suspect that the lovely city of NY will offer a settlement out of court.
Thanks for the update Randya. I had not heard / seen this.
10-18-09, 03:28 PM
#36
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You are correct. Wonder if this will put a crimp on that favorite line of cops; "It'll be my word against yours". Sorry officer, but the lens doesn't lie.
I suspect that the lovely city of NY will offer a settlement out of court.
Thanks for the update Randya. I had not heard / seen this.
I suspect that the lovely city of NY will offer a settlement out of court.
Thanks for the update Randya. I had not heard / seen this.
- Can the cop(s) in the patrol car choose when to turn on/off the dash cam?
- Do the cop(s) in the patrol car have access to the tape/DVD?
- How many cops "forget" that the dash cam is rolling?
- What happens if/when the dash cam doesn't support the cops story?
You're probably right in that in order to avoid the risk of a "black eye" over the incident or to run the risk of having a larger settlement directed at them. That they'll settle out of court for a sum equal to or slightly less then the 1.5 million being sought.
Hopefully, the other cops who participated in Pogan's cover-up were punished. Hopefully via a suspension without pay.
10-19-09, 11:26 AM
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Expounded on the topic, you say. Here's your exposé:
I'm sorry to tell you, but you're missing the point by a lightyear. You make a cynical statement, still maintaining that 1.5 million$ is too much for being pushed to the ground.
You are forgetting the part about being wrongfully arrested and charged on various accounts, including assault of a police officer. THAT is the damage, the thing that really hurts and calls for retribution! Sorry for the bold, just wanted to point out the main part.
I'm sorry to tell you, but you're missing the point by a lightyear. You make a cynical statement, still maintaining that 1.5 million$ is too much for being pushed to the ground.
You are forgetting the part about being wrongfully arrested and charged on various accounts, including assault of a police officer. THAT is the damage, the thing that really hurts and calls for retribution! Sorry for the bold, just wanted to point out the main part.
Im not sure what the cyclist was going to be charge with, but I would assume reisting arrest and assaulting a police officer. Guess what, if I get convicted of that, I LOSE my professional license. No more physical therapist. That means 100k in tuition down the tube, no job, and now I have to find something new to do.
All because a crooked cop is lying. $1.5 mil seems reasonble.
10-19-09, 01:21 PM
#38
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There's another side that has to be considered: How large do you have to make the penalty to deter repeat actions by the offending party?
THAT'S where $1.5M comes in - it's recompense for damages and monetary compensation to the cyclist for going through the events in the first place, but it's also a punishment to the city. Is it too much *FOR THE CYCLIST*? Absolutely. But to an extent, the cyclist isn't the point. The city is.
Look at it another way, though... let's say it was scaled more appropriately. $10,000, let's say. (Don't argue about the size, that's not the point. The point is the change in scale.)
This goes to court... cyclist wins. NYPD owes... oh... $10,000. They kind of look at each other and then shrug their shoulders and say "welp, gotta pay it" and pay $10K. This doesn't even dent the city's budget. This in no way sends any response to them at all. If you were arrested for drunk driving and the officer made you hold out your hand while he slapped your wrist, would you call that an effective deterrent? How about if your favorite restaurant served rat meat as a substitute in their beef stew and was given a $25 fine and a stern lecture?
That's where magnitude of claim has to come in - it's an attempt at punishing a large entity that otherwise can shrug off any reasonably-sized fine that is thrown at it. The message is "keep your damned officers under control, or you're going to lose millions of dollars".
THAT'S where $1.5M comes in - it's recompense for damages and monetary compensation to the cyclist for going through the events in the first place, but it's also a punishment to the city. Is it too much *FOR THE CYCLIST*? Absolutely. But to an extent, the cyclist isn't the point. The city is.
Look at it another way, though... let's say it was scaled more appropriately. $10,000, let's say. (Don't argue about the size, that's not the point. The point is the change in scale.)
This goes to court... cyclist wins. NYPD owes... oh... $10,000. They kind of look at each other and then shrug their shoulders and say "welp, gotta pay it" and pay $10K. This doesn't even dent the city's budget. This in no way sends any response to them at all. If you were arrested for drunk driving and the officer made you hold out your hand while he slapped your wrist, would you call that an effective deterrent? How about if your favorite restaurant served rat meat as a substitute in their beef stew and was given a $25 fine and a stern lecture?
That's where magnitude of claim has to come in - it's an attempt at punishing a large entity that otherwise can shrug off any reasonably-sized fine that is thrown at it. The message is "keep your damned officers under control, or you're going to lose millions of dollars".
Last edited by Sundae; 10-19-09 at 01:26 PM.
10-19-09, 02:27 PM
#39
Senior Member
There's no disagreement that it's not a frivolous lawsuit, but no, I don't think 1.5 million is reasonable compensation for a body check onto the sidewalk. If you or I had done that and were sued for "pain and suffering" the amount sought would likely be far less, perhaps in the $20,000 range, maybe even less. I disagree with seeking the relatively astronomical figure of 1.5 million based on the fact that New York City has deeper pockets to tap into. Compensation should be based on the damage done, not the assets of the person or entity liable.
Then again, that's not how the real world works, is it? The city will settle out of court to avoid going to trial to defend a case that seemingly cannot be won, and to avoid the possibility of a jury awarding even more than the 1.5 million asked. Ultimately, Long will receive a larger settlement because it's a slam dunk case involving liability on NYC. I don't think that, in and of itself, justifies greater compensation.
I believe the settlement will be tax free too.
Then again, that's not how the real world works, is it? The city will settle out of court to avoid going to trial to defend a case that seemingly cannot be won, and to avoid the possibility of a jury awarding even more than the 1.5 million asked. Ultimately, Long will receive a larger settlement because it's a slam dunk case involving liability on NYC. I don't think that, in and of itself, justifies greater compensation.
I believe the settlement will be tax free too.
10-19-09, 05:25 PM
#40
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Hey, I'd be happy to earn 1.5 million for getting pushed over.
Some people have all the luck.
Some people have all the luck.
10-19-09, 06:22 PM
#42
Cycle Year Round
Anybody even bother to figure out how much the cyclist will end up with even if the verdict is for 1.5 million.
Other than the very small amount of his medical expenses and bicycle damage, the rest of the judgement is likely taxable. So about 50% of the 1.5 mil goes to the various governments. That is $750,000 gone.
About 33% of the 1.5 million will go to the lawyers. So another $500,000 is gone.
That leaves $250,000 for the cyclist.
Is that really too much money for someone who was facing possible jail time and a permenant felony record?
Other than the very small amount of his medical expenses and bicycle damage, the rest of the judgement is likely taxable. So about 50% of the 1.5 mil goes to the various governments. That is $750,000 gone.
About 33% of the 1.5 million will go to the lawyers. So another $500,000 is gone.
That leaves $250,000 for the cyclist.
Is that really too much money for someone who was facing possible jail time and a permenant felony record?
10-19-09, 06:42 PM
#43
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CB HI, has the right idea. There are two types of awards: compensatory and punitive. Compensatory damage awards just return the plaintiff to the state he was in prior to the incident, and so you do not pay taxes on this. Mental pain and suffering and psychological damage and all that falls under the compensatory damages.
Sometimes juries award more to punish the defendant and hopefully deter people from doing it again: the plantiff should be taxed on such punitive damage awards he receives, but sometimes even that falls through the cracks.
Sometimes juries award more to punish the defendant and hopefully deter people from doing it again: the plantiff should be taxed on such punitive damage awards he receives, but sometimes even that falls through the cracks.
10-20-09, 07:27 PM
#44
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Anybody even bother to figure out how much the cyclist will end up with even if the verdict is for 1.5 million.
Other than the very small amount of his medical expenses and bicycle damage, the rest of the judgement is likely taxable. So about 50% of the 1.5 mil goes to the various governments. That is $750,000 gone.
About 33% of the 1.5 million will go to the lawyers. So another $500,000 is gone.
That leaves $250,000 for the cyclist.
Is that really too much money for someone who was facing possible jail time and a permenant felony record?
Other than the very small amount of his medical expenses and bicycle damage, the rest of the judgement is likely taxable. So about 50% of the 1.5 mil goes to the various governments. That is $750,000 gone.
About 33% of the 1.5 million will go to the lawyers. So another $500,000 is gone.
That leaves $250,000 for the cyclist.
Is that really too much money for someone who was facing possible jail time and a permenant felony record?
__________________
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
10-20-09, 07:37 PM
#45
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It is customary to follow proclamations that someone is wrong with a statement of why/how and an explanation of what the speaker feels is actually correct. Care to oblige us?
10-20-09, 07:53 PM
#46
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They don't tax income you don't make. Tax will come AFTER the lawyers get their cut.
Say the lawyers get 1/3rd: $500,000
Leaves $1,000,000 dollars. 50% tax leaves $500,000
What I'm reading online right now says personal injury awards (compensatory AND punitive) are non-taxable... So $1,000,000... then again, this other article says it IS taxable. Better take out a chunk for the accountant!
__________________
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
Last edited by bmclaughlin807; 10-20-09 at 08:01 PM.
10-20-09, 08:15 PM
#47
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That wasn't so hard now, was it? (FYI, we aren't really talking about a personal injury case here: this is more a civil rights case).
10-21-09, 02:05 AM
#48
Cycle Year Round
*sigh*
They don't tax income you don't make. Tax will come AFTER the lawyers get their cut.
Say the lawyers get 1/3rd: $500,000
Leaves $1,000,000 dollars. 50% tax leaves $500,000
What I'm reading online right now says personal injury awards (compensatory AND punitive) are non-taxable... So $1,000,000... then again, this other article says it IS taxable. Better take out a chunk for the accountant!
They don't tax income you don't make. Tax will come AFTER the lawyers get their cut.
Say the lawyers get 1/3rd: $500,000
Leaves $1,000,000 dollars. 50% tax leaves $500,000
What I'm reading online right now says personal injury awards (compensatory AND punitive) are non-taxable... So $1,000,000... then again, this other article says it IS taxable. Better take out a chunk for the accountant!
Any accountants want to run the actual numbers for NYC.
Last edited by CB HI; 10-21-09 at 02:08 AM.
10-21-09, 02:28 AM
#49
Cycle Year Round
Here are the 2008 IRS instructions (1040 instructions page A-10) for figuring out how much of the lawyers fees you can deduct:
Itemized Deductions Worksheet—Line 29 Keep for Your Records
1. Enter the total of the amounts from Schedule A, lines 4, 9, 15, 19, 20, 27, and 28 . . . 1.
2. Enter the total of the amounts from Schedule A, lines 4, 14, and 20, plus any gambling and casualty
or theft losses included on line 28. Also include in the total any amount included on Schedule A,
line 16, that you elected to treat as qualified contributions for relief efforts in a Midwestern disaster
area . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.
Be sure your total gambling and casualty or theft losses are clearly identified on the
dotted lines next to line 28.
3. Is the amount on line 2 less than the amount on line 1?
No. STOP Your deduction is not limited. Enter the amount from line 1 above on Schedule A,
line 29.
Yes. Subtract line 2 from line 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.
4. Multiply line 3 by 80% (.80) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.
5. Enter the amount from Form 1040, line 38 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.
6. Enter $159,950 ($79,975) if married filing separately) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.
7. Is the amount on line 6 less than the amount on line 5?
No. STOP Your deduction is not limited. Enter the amount from line 1
above on Schedule A, line 29.
Yes. Subtract line 6 from line 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.
8. Multiply line 7 by 3% (.03) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.
9. Enter the smaller of line 4 or line 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.
10. Divide line 9 by 1.5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10.
11. Subtract line 10 from line 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.
12. Total itemized deductions. Subtract line 11 from line 1. Enter the result here and on Schedule A,
line 29 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.
page A-10
1. Enter the total of the amounts from Schedule A, lines 4, 9, 15, 19, 20, 27, and 28 . . . 1.
2. Enter the total of the amounts from Schedule A, lines 4, 14, and 20, plus any gambling and casualty
or theft losses included on line 28. Also include in the total any amount included on Schedule A,
line 16, that you elected to treat as qualified contributions for relief efforts in a Midwestern disaster
area . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.
Be sure your total gambling and casualty or theft losses are clearly identified on the
dotted lines next to line 28.
3. Is the amount on line 2 less than the amount on line 1?
No. STOP Your deduction is not limited. Enter the amount from line 1 above on Schedule A,
line 29.
Yes. Subtract line 2 from line 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.
4. Multiply line 3 by 80% (.80) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.
5. Enter the amount from Form 1040, line 38 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.
6. Enter $159,950 ($79,975) if married filing separately) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.
7. Is the amount on line 6 less than the amount on line 5?
No. STOP Your deduction is not limited. Enter the amount from line 1
above on Schedule A, line 29.
Yes. Subtract line 6 from line 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.
8. Multiply line 7 by 3% (.03) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.
9. Enter the smaller of line 4 or line 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.
10. Divide line 9 by 1.5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10.
11. Subtract line 10 from line 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.
12. Total itemized deductions. Subtract line 11 from line 1. Enter the result here and on Schedule A,
line 29 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.
page A-10
10-21-09, 07:45 PM
#50
Senior Member
*sigh*
They don't tax income you don't make. Tax will come AFTER the lawyers get their cut.
Say the lawyers get 1/3rd: $500,000
Leaves $1,000,000 dollars. 50% tax leaves $500,000
What I'm reading online right now says personal injury awards (compensatory AND punitive) are non-taxable... So $1,000,000... then again, this other article says it IS taxable. Better take out a chunk for the accountant!
They don't tax income you don't make. Tax will come AFTER the lawyers get their cut.
Say the lawyers get 1/3rd: $500,000
Leaves $1,000,000 dollars. 50% tax leaves $500,000
What I'm reading online right now says personal injury awards (compensatory AND punitive) are non-taxable... So $1,000,000... then again, this other article says it IS taxable. Better take out a chunk for the accountant!
The IRS could take the position that you got the entire award, THEN had to pay the lawyers out of that.
Give government time, and we will be paying taxes on "potential" income that we could possibly make, but never do. It's been proposed before, but didn't get fully written up.