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Rolling drivers at intersections & driveways - what are they thinking?

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Rolling drivers at intersections & driveways - what are they thinking?

Old 10-16-09, 04:45 PM
  #51  
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If they're in a car, I would be tempted to bunny hop over/onto the hood with a mountain bike. If they're in a truck, I'll just go around.
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Old 10-16-09, 04:51 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So basically one for every intersection. Again I ask how are emergency vehicles suppose to get into the neighborhood?



Looks like a nice piece of artwork, but I can see what you are saying.



Sadly, it seems like most people in general also don't understand how to operate on the road around cyclists.
Actually, there is one street coming in from the south on the top end of the area, one street in the middle and one street at the end. The two roundabouts in the middle are for business driveways.

The art work is very nice. A wonderful sculpture...if the damned thing were in a park where people could look at it, appreciate it and admire the sculptors work. But the stupid damned thing is in the middle of a street that basically is the only street into the east side of Golden. Pedestrians can't get to the middle of the circle to admire it because they'd have to cross 2 lanes of the traffic circle and then they'd be so close that they couldn't see anything because this is a huge art piece. The best place to view it is about 1/2 way across the first lane of the circle
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Old 10-16-09, 05:19 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So basically one for every intersection. Again I ask how are emergency vehicles suppose to get into the neighborhood?
Ummm... there is a bus route through there. One that regularly has the double-length buses. Emergency vehicles have no issues with them.
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Old 10-16-09, 05:33 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Actually, there is one street coming in from the south on the top end of the area, one street in the middle and one street at the end. The two roundabouts in the middle are for business driveways.

The art work is very nice. A wonderful sculpture...if the damned thing were in a park where people could look at it, appreciate it and admire the sculptors work. But the stupid damned thing is in the middle of a street that basically is the only street into the east side of Golden. Pedestrians can't get to the middle of the circle to admire it because they'd have to cross 2 lanes of the traffic circle and then they'd be so close that they couldn't see anything because this is a huge art piece. The best place to view it is about 1/2 way across the first lane of the circle
Yep, I can see where that statue would be better in a park, or even a museum. But not in the middle of the street.
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Old 10-17-09, 09:07 AM
  #55  
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Rolling. Terribly annoying. Bicycles get stuck to the right and become even more invisible.

I am training the local folks using my motorbike. I got a headlight that will burn paint at 10 ft. Someone rolls, I lean on my pathetic horn (next upgrade - air horn) and flip on the high beam, which I can see illuminating the inside of the car in daylight.

Really funny to use a motorcycle to educate my neighbors so I can bicycle safely. I think it's starting to work. Everybody knows I'm armed and dangerous, so I never get any flak over it. They don't pull out in front of my truck, either. I obviously need a new one and am looking for an idiot's insurance to pay for it!
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Old 10-17-09, 11:25 AM
  #56  
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This is interesting as I lived in Golden for about four years, and lived in Lakewood right off of 20th Ave for about a year, so I know exactly what you're talking about. I've never had any trouble navigating these on my bicycle.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Roundabouts in the US tend to be of the 'let's put something nice in the middle of it' variety. Golden Colorado has a huge monstrosity in the middle of the lowest one of 5 they have installed in a 5 block section of Golden Road. Yes, 5. And there isn't really that much traffic that is trying to get onto Golden Road

The sculpture that they have plunked down in the middle of the traffic circle completely blocks the view of on-coming traffic and serves as a major distraction for the drivers in the circle. Tourists are gawking at the damned artwork and not watching where they are driving.
These roundabouts are actually not that bad. Very easy to navigate with great signage. The "sculptures" blocking the path don't pose much of a problem as you can see far enough to your left to see large enough gaps in traffic to know its safe to pull out. Never had a problem either via bicycle or car. Hell, the 16L sure does a decent job navigating these.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The other true road narrowing measures are even worse for us cyclists. Lakewood, CO did a chicane "calming" at the bottom of 20th Avenue. From the east, there is about a 200 foot drop in about half a mile which means that on a bike you can easily hit 40 mph. At the calming area, they intend for bikes to go off the road and onto a 8 ft. wide path on the side. At 40 mph, an 8 ft. path looks like a razor blade. I stay on the road because I can take the corners they put in at a much higher rate of speed than the cars but the car folks don't understand this and will try to accelerate to squeeze past me. Needless to say it takes nerves of steel to get through this mess. I usually avoid it unless I feeling particularly death defying.
These chicanes were easiest if you ride in the center of the lane. I generally avoided this particular section of road, but never had problems with people trying to squeeze past me. I think the key was I didn't make it look like there was any room to pass me.

When I lived off of W 20th Ave and Robb St, I found it easier to just take Simms St north over W 26th Ave and take that over to Youngfield instead of through those silly chicanes.
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Old 10-17-09, 11:29 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So basically one for every intersection. Again I ask how are emergency vehicles suppose to get into the neighborhood?
It doesn't seem to be a problem. There's a bus line that is almost always double length that navigates these just fine. I've watched ambulances drive through them as well, and it doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

For a better idea about the roundabouts, here's a google maps link to the area in question:
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...21136&t=h&z=16

Note how the roads intersecting are more then just business driveways. Also, the fifth roundabout isn't in that picture as it was just built recently. Its a bit north west up where Ford St and Jackson St merge into S Golden Road.

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Old 10-17-09, 11:52 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The best place to view it is about 1/2 way across the first lane of the circle
So the best place to view, be it from design or accidentally, is from the comfort of.....your car. After awhile it gets to be kinda funny. Driving around and around the roundabout looking out the side window at the wonderful art.
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Old 10-17-09, 12:31 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by mikeshoup View Post
It doesn't seem to be a problem. There's a bus line that is almost always double length that navigates these just fine. I've watched ambulances drive through them as well, and it doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

For a better idea about the roundabouts, here's a google maps link to the area in question:
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...21136&t=h&z=16

Note how the roads intersecting are more then just business driveways. Also, the fifth roundabout isn't in that picture as it was just built recently. Its a bit north west up where Ford St and Jackson St merge into S Golden Road.
Doesn't that require the ambulances and other emergency vehicles to slow down? And couldn't that slowing down cost someone waiting for said emergency vehicles their life?
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Old 10-17-09, 12:57 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by lineinthewater View Post
What is the deal with drivers who keep on rolling after coming to a "stop" at traffic lights, stop signs, intersecting roads, etc?
This drives me nuts.

I see this as refusing to yield right of way. They should stop, then roll up cautiously if they don't have a good line of sight for oncoming traffic. They never should make it onto the road they are supposed to stop at before entering.

Most often cars slow down or stop when their back wheels are past the stop line. I never know if these drivers are going to blow the sign or what.

Quite often, I see cars come to a stop, on an angle, while in the lane, and blocking any traffic that might be traveling in it. BASTARDS!

I'd bet they'd stop if they saw something bigger than them coming down the road.
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Old 10-17-09, 01:10 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Doesn't that require the ambulances and other emergency vehicles to slow down? And couldn't that slowing down cost someone waiting for said emergency vehicles their life?
Sure, but ever watched an ambulance go through a regular intersection? They almost always have to slow down.
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Old 10-17-09, 01:29 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Doesn't that require the ambulances and other emergency vehicles to slow down? And couldn't that slowing down cost someone waiting for said emergency vehicles their life?
Yes, but emergency vehicles slow down at ALL intersections, even if they have a green light.
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Old 10-17-09, 01:59 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
Yes, but emergency vehicles slow down at ALL intersections, even if they have a green light.
Or in the case of an ambulance that was heading north on 9th st the other day, even though it was sitting in the right lane (the first vehicle) cars were still proceeding through on 38th ave. Why don't don't people stop before intersections when they hear an emergency vehicle approaching?
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Old 10-17-09, 07:57 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
By their very nature, a curve is narrower than a straight stretch of road. You've got to drive a rectangular box around a bend. That narrows the lane. That's the whole point of roundabout, slowing the cars down by making them fit in a slightly smaller space..

Roundabouts in the US tend to be of the 'let's put something nice in the middle of it' variety. Golden Colorado has a huge monstrosity in the middle of the lowest one of 5 they have installed in a 5 block section of Golden Road. Yes, 5. And there isn't really that much traffic that is trying to get onto Golden Road

The sculpture that they have plunked down in the middle of the traffic circle completely blocks the view of on-coming traffic and serves as a major distraction for the drivers in the circle. Tourists are gawking at the damned artwork and not watching where they are driving.

I really wouldn't mind the traffic circles if people knew anything about how to use them but we Americans just don't know how to do it. Some people blow into them without looking...yield means go faster, right or they stop and are confused about how to get into them. And if there is a bicycle in the middle of one (Yes, I can go through them faster than cars do), the motorist try to pass or try to get by so that they can exit and end up right hooking the cyclist.

The other true road narrowing measures are even worse for us cyclists. Lakewood, CO did a chicane "calming" at the bottom of 20th Avenue. From the east, there is about a 200 foot drop in about half a mile which means that on a bike you can easily hit 40 mph. At the calming area, they intend for bikes to go off the road and onto a 8 ft. wide path on the side. At 40 mph, an 8 ft. path looks like a razor blade. I stay on the road because I can take the corners they put in at a much higher rate of speed than the cars but the car folks don't understand this and will try to accelerate to squeeze past me. Needless to say it takes nerves of steel to get through this mess. I usually avoid it unless I feeling particularly death defying.
I hate to burst your bubble, but even here in the states, roundabouts make for faster, safer traffic. The perceived danger you're describing is actually what makes it safer... even with (or maybe partly because of) the big statue in the middle of it:

https://ci.golden.co.us/files/roundaboutpaper.pdf

Pages 11 and 12 are the most compelling.
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Old 10-17-09, 08:08 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by mikewille View Post
There's a roundabout several miles from me, and its the only one I
know of in the northwest suburbs of chicago.

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...12,165.79,,0,5

It's referred to as "suicide circle" due to the large number of accidents that occur there.
It seems like a lot of people have trouble figuring out how to drive through it.
Hard to tell in street view if there's much impact debris, but I wouldn't be surprised.
That's not a roundabout. It's a traffic circle.
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Old 10-17-09, 08:36 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by GodsBassist View Post
I hate to burst your bubble, but even here in the states, roundabouts make for faster, safer traffic. The perceived danger you're describing is actually what makes it safer... even with (or maybe partly because of) the big statue in the middle of it:

https://ci.golden.co.us/files/roundaboutpaper.pdf

Pages 11 and 12 are the most compelling.
Wow... that was a pretty thorough rebuttal of the complaints.... traffic went up, travel times went down, safety went up... And as far as how it looks? That stretch of S. Golden Road looks WAY nicer than it did before the project.

I'd have to say it was money VERY well spent.

I've ridden my bike through there many times, both directions (direction is important... North Bound is downhill... I'm moving at least as fast as traffic) and never had any serious issues.... had someone pass me on the left and merge over too close in one of the circles once (northbound)... Much better than other areas I've ridden... The area is quite ridable and pretty pleasant overall.
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Old 10-17-09, 10:54 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by GodsBassist View Post
That's not a roundabout. It's a traffic circle.
I didn't realize there was a difference, i just looked it up, thanks.
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Old 10-18-09, 07:45 AM
  #68  
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In th UK some years ago experiments were tried converting conventional roundabouts (with a substantial center island) into mini-roundabouts with only a tiny center island and more room for vehicles.

Results showed improved traffic volume but also an increase in accidents. However, there was a drop in serious accidents. Many conventional roundabouts were converted into mini-roundabouts.
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Old 10-18-09, 08:05 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by henrycalhoun51 View Post
Drivers are careless and ignorant. If they would steepen the fines for law breakers this might change.
Steepened fines mean nothing without enforcement. And enforcement is nothing without enough enforcers that believe they are actually seeing violations.
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Old 10-18-09, 08:07 AM
  #70  
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After rolling around town for decades in my M-1 Abrams, I have to say that I've never seen this.
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Old 10-18-09, 08:33 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
After rolling around town for decades in my M-1 Abrams, I have to say that I've never seen this.
Yes, the only problem is that at 100ft/gallon as gas gets more expensive again, you gotta drive it less.....
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Old 10-18-09, 08:59 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by GodsBassist View Post
I hate to burst your bubble, but even here in the states, roundabouts make for faster, safer traffic. The perceived danger you're describing is actually what makes it safer... even with (or maybe partly because of) the big statue in the middle of it:

https://ci.golden.co.us/files/roundaboutpaper.pdf

Pages 11 and 12 are the most compelling.
Amazing paper. I had yet to come across that, even in my four years in Golden. Kinda confirmed what I already knew.
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Old 10-18-09, 10:12 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by GodsBassist View Post
I hate to burst your bubble, but even here in the states, roundabouts make for faster, safer traffic. The perceived danger you're describing is actually what makes it safer... even with (or maybe partly because of) the big statue in the middle of it:

https://ci.golden.co.us/files/roundaboutpaper.pdf

Pages 11 and 12 are the most compelling.
Riding through this area is much more unnerving on a bicycle then it used to be. I used to ride, and drive, it all the time. Going towards Golden from Lakewood on a bicycle isn't really a problem (the direction I ride it now when I ride it) because it's a fast downhill where it is easy to keep up with traffic. The times I have ridden it, motorists try to keep up with me or even pass me as I go through the circles because they don't think I can go that fast. It's something I noticed for almost all fast downhills around here.

I've not ridden it the other direction since the roundabouts were put in (sorry about miscounting them). I don't suspect that it would be all the pleasant either since it's a pretty long slow uphill.

My issue with traffic circles (and traffic calming) is that it does make traffic move faster and smoother. Faster traffic isn't necessarily better for bicycles and pedestrians. That area of Golden never did have much pedestrian traffic and I doubt that it has much now. The road would be a bugger to cross at any point for a pedestrian. It would be next to impossible to cross at the traffic circles.

For a bicyclist trying to make a left turn at Earl Johnson Road (the lowest one), you have to position yourself in the inside lane of the circle...not a great place to be on a bicycle...go around the circle and try to cross lanes to make the left turn. With a great big mass of metal in the middle of the circle, the bicyclist's view of oncoming traffic is blocked and the on-coming traffic can't see the bicyclist. It takes nerves of steel to try to make that left turn. I could probably do it...I don't scare easily...but I certainly would be prepared to have to dodge traffic to do so.

As an aside, that section of road is still uuuuggggllly
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Old 10-19-09, 10:05 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
By their very nature, a curve is narrower than a straight stretch of road. You've got to drive a rectangular box around a bend. That narrows the lane. That's the whole point of roundabout, slowing the cars down by making them fit in a slightly smaller space..
Never noticed this when I was in a car, a truck, or on my bike or motorcycle. Once the driver develops a feel for the radius of the roundabout, it is a non issue. It is a good argument (as if any more are needed) against buses, however, since I can't imagine a boxier, more awkward monstrosity trying to navigate that type of raodway.
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Roundabouts in the US tend to be of the 'let's put something nice in the middle of it' variety.
....

Reminds me of the Beatles song Penny Lane. I agree the circles should be left uncommercialised.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post

I really wouldn't mind the traffic circles if people knew anything about how to use them but we Americans just don't know how to do it.
Oh Puh-leeze. We Mass drivers have the worst rep in the world and I've seen drivers handle roundabouts with aplomb and easily. I stop if I have to wait for folks in the circle, and that does upset drivers who think they have the right of way coming in....but they learn, fast. Its merely an enforcement issue, as so many violations are.



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