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Does anyone carry a gun?

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Does anyone carry a gun?

Old 08-19-04, 08:25 PM
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Us "Gun Nuts Are Sick"? What are you going to do when some crackhead or other addict wants your 5 grand bike (scarry)?
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Old 08-19-04, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by scarry
Carrying a gun while riding your bike is the stupidist thing I ever heard.

I didn't spend 4 grand on a titanium bike to load it down with a gun. maybe water and power bars.

I'm 50 and have ridden 5000 miles a year for the past 30 years.

Never needed it.
NO FEAR BABY.

You gun nuts are SICK.
I agree Im sick I have this diease that I cant get rid of. Im a Gunaholic. I own 12 of them. AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Id rather be prepared for the worse, than to be sorry I didnt have my gun in a worse case scenerio.
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Old 08-20-04, 07:32 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by ehenz
The danger was not the gun but in the actions of your father. Had your brother killed you, your Dad could have been charged (in most cases) for being negligent. I'd question the manner in which you were raised and your Father's ability to safely lock and store firearms before I make blanket statments about gun safety.
ok, so my father was negligent for storing an unloaded firearm in a locked gun-safe while storing the ammunition in a separate locked cabinet, and I was raised in a questionable manner. Gotcha.
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Old 08-20-04, 10:56 AM
  #104  
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I don't hunt animals or humans, so I don't own a firearm. I do have an uneasy fascination with them, though. Perhaps its all the plastic guns and air guns I played with as a kid.

Question to all you people who own firearms, could you really use them? When the adreneline kicks in could you really squeeze the trigger? Could you really murder another human being? If you think you can, I hope the courts agree with you. It would be ironic to end up in prison for the remainder of your life after trying to defend it in one sudden, violent confrontation. Do you really think you'll have time to do some soul searching before you shoot? What if you kill an innocent person, or a child? Paper targets at the shooting range aren't the same as real people. And, just because you're carrying a lethal weapon doesn't mean you have a soldier's license to kill. Police Officers aren't the same as soldiers either, especially if they're off duty.

Still, Police Officers are trained to use lethal force, and they are held accountable in most regards. If anything, they should be the ones training regular citizens on firearm safety and responsibility.


I'm sorry though, I don't think firearms are a good form of self defense. I support the right to bear arms. And yet, firearms are devices that have only one purpose, to end life. That's all firearms have ever been, lethal weapons. IMO, a good can of CS/Pepper spray or a Taser Gun is just as effective. Or, learn some basic self defense martial arts if you're so inclined.

I respect the opinions of Firearm Supporters/Owners. I just don't share some of them.

Bottom line is, if somebody is intent on harming you severely in a physical confrontation, there is very little you can do about it regardless of whether or not you're carrying a firearm. Most real life confrontations aren't something you can plan for. Adding an overtly lethal weapon to the mix just escalates the situation and increases the odds of a tragic outcome. Besides, if an armed robber wants your body or your property, who says they'll ask first? Do you think "gun fights" really happen like they do in the movies?

Really.

I suppose killing a threatening or dying animal is another thing. Still, does that really justify carrying around one of mankinds' most devastating inventions?


-Matt C.-
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Old 08-20-04, 11:13 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by tarmac
I don't hunt animals or humans, so I don't own a firearm. I do have an uneasy fascination with them, though. Perhaps its all the plastic guns and air guns I played with as a kid.

Question to all you people who own firearms, could you really use them? When the adreneline kicks in could you really squeeze the trigger? Could you really murder another human being? If you think you can, I hope the courts agree with you. It would be ironic to end up in prison for the remainder of your life after trying to defend it in one sudden, violent confrontation. Do you really think you'll have time to do some soul searching before you shoot? What if you kill an innocent person, or a child? Paper targets at the shooting range aren't the same as real people. And, just because you're carrying a lethal weapon doesn't mean you have a soldier's license to kill. Police Officers aren't the same as soldiers either, especially if they're off duty.

Still, Police Officers are trained to use lethal force, and they are held accountable in most regards. If anything, they should be the ones training regular citizens on firearm safety and responsibility.


I'm sorry though, I don't think firearms are a good form of self defense. I support the right to bear arms. And yet, firearms are devices that have only one purpose, to end life. That's all firearms have ever been, lethal weapons. IMO, a good can of CS/Pepper spray or a Taser Gun is just as effective. Or, learn some basic self defense martial arts if you're so inclined.

I respect the opinions of Firearm Supporters/Owners. I just don't share some of them.

Bottom line is, if somebody is intent on harming you severely in a physical confrontation, there is very little you can do about it regardless of whether or not you're carrying a firearm. Most real life confrontations aren't something you can plan for. Adding an overtly lethal weapon to the mix just escalates the situation and increases the odds of a tragic outcome. Besides, if an armed robber wants your body or your property, who says they'll ask first? Do you think "gun fights" really happen like they do in the movies?

Really.

I suppose killing a threatening or dying animal is another thing. Still, does that really justify carrying around one of mankinds' most devastating inventions?


-Matt C.-
Self Defense is not "MURDER". If you antis would get more informed about firearms then you will understand the whole firearm community thing. I invite all antis to glocktalk.com Come visit and see for yourself how friendly gun owners are. We even have bike forum there.

And for your question. "Could You Squeeze the Trigger?" If I coundnt I woundnt own a firearm. Self Defense is ONE THING and Murder is another. I own guns to protect myself, family, property, target shoot, hunt, plink.

Get real Peeps! Nobody is going aroung GUNGHO around here I hope not anyways. If so they have serious problems awaiting them. Prison or worse. Most gun owners are pretty well trained people. Trained by the very people that protect you. The Police! Do you trust them? All this gun talk.Makes me want another shotgun dove season is right around the corner.
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Old 08-20-04, 11:16 AM
  #106  
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As a child, my friends and I all played with toy guns. None of us have become gun toting killers. Since it become taboo to play with the toys guns, the kids have turned to real guns. Most that own guns are responsible about it and know safety. Some learn gun safety as children, as I did from my grandparents. I think that is probably key is learning gun safety.
What about knives? Lots of crimes are commited with them. Should we ban those too?
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Old 08-20-04, 11:22 AM
  #107  
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STOR MAND, True! Maybe they want BALLBATS banned too. 6 murdered in FL. with ballbats. Motive an XBOX game. No Gun Involved.
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Old 08-20-04, 11:31 AM
  #108  
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One of the most interesting things that I noted while reading actual accounts from the frontier days was that by far and away the vast majority of the people killed by handguns were as a result of accidental discharges. Carrying a loaded and ready gun on you while cycling is like playing russian roulette every time that you ride. One slip, one fall and you or the people around you could be in real trouble. Ask the cops who bike about the precautions that they must take, or better yet for some of their close call stories. In many areas, the bike cops aren't allowed to carry firearms for this reason.

I remember when some of the guys who I fish with were talking about this same issue, noting all the reasons why they should arm themselves in order to protect their $20K+ bass boats and gear. Some of the guys whom I run with had made the same arguments on the basis of personal safety.

Me personally, I am highly skilled with firearms. I practice and shoot a lot. I live in a state where I can legally permit and carry. I choose not to for the plethora of safety reasons that override the potential for need. I do a lot more to protect myself in other ways so that I don't have to place myself or family or friends or neighbors or coworkers in jeopardy caused by my having a gun around. That makes sense to me.

For the guys who take a different view, so be it. Just be careful out there. If you handle a handgun enough times, I guarantee you that you will encounter an accidental discharge. Hope it all works out well for you.
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Old 08-20-04, 11:45 AM
  #109  
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the adreneline kicks in could you really squeeze the trigger?
Human nature, fight or flight. I don't think I could answer, but I hope I fight.
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Old 08-20-04, 12:00 PM
  #110  
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Me personally, I am highly skilled with firearms. I practice and shoot a lot.

If you handle a handgun enough times, I guarantee you that you will encounter an accidental discharge. Hope it all works out well for you
.

They give inmates computers now?
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Old 08-20-04, 12:06 PM
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LOL...well some of us inmates are just avid competitive target shooters.
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Old 08-20-04, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rule
LOL...well some of us inmates are just avid competitive target shooters.
IDPA, Bullseye? (just wondering, OT I know).
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Old 08-20-04, 02:26 PM
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Rule,

Lots of falsehoods in your post that I just can't leave hanging out there unanswered.

While it is true that the Colt revolvers used in the old West could accidentally discharge, they could do so only under certain circumstances and only if improperly loaded. Unlike the old Colt my modern revolver could not accidentally discharge under any number of slips or falls, can't happen.

You state that you're "highly skilled" with firearms and "practice and shoot a lot" yet you also state that you "don't have a gun around". What do you "practice and shoot a lot" with?

If you have received proper training you know the simple precautions to safe gun ownership and should have been taught the true statistics regarding gun related accidents. Knowing that, how can you possibly feel you are placing anyone in jeopardy by "having a gun around"?

I've only seen a few bike cops as I don't frequent the cities much. The ones I've seen carried firearms. I wouldn't want to be an unarmed street cop. I've watched TV and seen cops running, jumping fences, tackling suspects, etc. - all while armed.

If you have experienced an accidental discharge and really are trained then what did you do wrong? I've handled firearms extensively my entire life and have never had a gun discharge unless I intended it to. I have a large circle of friends and acquaintances that also have never experienced such a thing. If you do have a gun accidentally discharge and you're handling the gun properly no one is put in jeopardy by it.

Big risks in my kids lives are riding in cars, getting hit by a car while riding in a bike trailer, getting hit by a car during some other activity, drinking/eating some poisonous household chemical, getting hung by a curtain cord, getting electrocuted by a wall outlet, falling on the concrete, drowning in the pond, drowning in the tub, etc.. Getting shot by one of my firearms is a risk I can and do control.

If you really do "practice and shoot a lot" please get training. If you do have training, it wasn't adequate, get more. If you don't feel that you are responsible enough to own a firearm then I respect you for choosing not to own one. Do you drive a car?

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Old 08-20-04, 02:38 PM
  #114  
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Anyone looking for a definitive responce to "why do some people carry/enjoy shooting" read this:

https://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...highlight=anti


I'm certain it may surprise some of you.
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Old 08-20-04, 02:57 PM
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ehenz

Excellent link, thanks.
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Old 08-20-04, 03:52 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by tarmac
Question to all you people who own firearms, could you really use them? When the adreneline kicks in could you really squeeze the trigger? Could you really murder another human being?
Yes, I could use my gun, but not from a bike bag. Yes I could squeeze the trigger, I've been trained to do so. No I could not murder another human being. Self defense is not murder. I could not take my gun and use it offensively against another human being. But I could damn sure use it if I, or a member of my family, or an innocent victim, were threatened by someone that could. And I've also been trained not to miss.
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Old 08-20-04, 03:53 PM
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ehenz...yep and yep or the like, mostly through a local pistol league.

phinney...I have kids in the house. I choose to deal with it by not having guns around. I keep them instead in a gun safe where I shoot. That works for me. Gun safes and/or gun locks work for others in my family, just as there are those family members who have no interest in firearms at all.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience and familiarity with firearms. That's a great thing. A lot of people don't. They don't realize that any firearm can accidentally discharge if handled improperly. Guys like you and I probably never come close to putting anyone in jeopardy when we shoot or are around our firearms. That's not always the case. So I always try to point it out.

Since you asked, within the last two months...a lady where I work accidentally blew the tip of her finger off when she reached into her purse to rummage for her contact lens case. A neighborhood guy who was getting ready for dove season blew a nice pattern into the wall of his pickup when he was trying to slide his 20 gauge out of its carrying case. I have never had anything like that happen to me. For my part though, I have seen way too many unsafe, poorly made and improperly maintained firearms to ever feel compelled to think that all modern weapons cannot misfire. But again that's just me. I live in a state where carry permits are allowed, and in an area of it where hunting is a nearby occurence. Some of what I see and hear about astounds me.

Otherwise, thanks for the tips. And I drive an M3. I got training for it too.
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Old 08-20-04, 06:33 PM
  #118  
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heh, this thread has to be one of the longest lived in bikeforums...and it mostly has to do with gun carry, not bikes
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Old 08-20-04, 07:03 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by catatonic
heh, this thread has to be one of the longest lived in bikeforums...and it mostly has to do with gun carry, not bikes
Nope, the thread at the top of the commuting forum has two years and over 5,000 posts to it's credit. I saw another thread get 170 replies in three hours one night, and only 66 of those were from me.
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Old 08-20-04, 08:14 PM
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The point of my last post was this:

If you carry a loaded firearm, then you are equipped to kill.

If you say you're not a killer, then what are you going to do in a self defense situation, "wing 'em"? In a stressful situation like a spotaneous, violent confrontation I don't honestly think that even the best marksman could garantee a non-lethal shot. Besides, many violent criminals wouldn't stop unless you killed them. I always thought firearms training taught that you "shoot to kill".

I guess there's no use arguing this, since most gun advocates have already firmly settled on some kind of noble idea of killing in self defense.

Also, the statistics don't support or refute firearms for self defense. There aren't a lot of reliable statistics anymore, anyway. Especially since this has become such a politicized topic.

Either way, I don't demonize gun owners. My intent is only to make a point, not call names.


-Matt C.-
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Old 08-20-04, 08:43 PM
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One thing I would like to address. The first poster was a women. Safety is a big factor for women. How many of you men would let your girlfriend or wife cycle by herself on a deserted rail trail, country road, or at night??? I am not talking about a little 5-10 mile ride. How about 20-60 miles one way away from you, or security as they know it. Now ask your women folk how many will cycle or walk/jog in those areas by themselves. When I told my daughter I was thinking about getting a hand gun, she was astonished. I asked her about her safety. She said in areas where men have followed her, she doesn't go there. She only goes to parks when they are busy. So what if you do want more freedom? Are you stuck in the house?


Ringo, I remember the bike accident with your wife. You feel safe in NY at night. Would you let your honey ride to White Castle by herself and get you a couple burgers at night?
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Old 08-21-04, 05:58 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by catatonic
...all I gotta say is until you see what a projectile going htrough an animal does...you have no idea how wrong it is to even think of shooting someone else.
Indeed! If a person's sole reason for desiring a gun is so they can use it the "next time" something occurs (violent/armed assaults possibly excepted), that indicates to me that such an individual should NEVER touch a firearm since they lack the fundamental sense of proportion that owning a firearm demands.
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Old 08-21-04, 07:40 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by tarmac
The point of my last post was this:

If you carry a loaded firearm, then you are equipped to kill.

If you say you're not a killer, then what are you going to do in a self defense situation, "wing 'em"? In a stressful situation like a spotaneous, violent confrontation I don't honestly think that even the best marksman could garantee a non-lethal shot. Besides, many violent criminals wouldn't stop unless you killed them. I always thought firearms training taught that you "shoot to kill".

I guess there's no use arguing this, since most gun advocates have already firmly settled on some kind of noble idea of killing in self defense.

Also, the statistics don't support or refute firearms for self defense. There aren't a lot of reliable statistics anymore, anyway. Especially since this has become such a politicized topic.

Either way, I don't demonize gun owners. My intent is only to make a point, not call names.


-Matt C.-
I was taught to shoot to the center of mass and continue shooting until the threat is eliminated. I believe this is the standard curriculum.

You're equipped to kill with or without a gun. Knives are often most deadly because many people don't realize how lethal they are and so are more apt to use them. Cars are very effective killing machines.

From what I've read, nine times out of 10 brandishing a firearm is enough to stop a criminal attack. This makes sense as predators prefer easy victims.

On the news this morning they reported two more murders in this relatively low crime community.
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Old 08-22-04, 02:49 PM
  #124  
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Knives are an option as well, even if firearms aren't. I have a big (5" blade) lockblade folding knife that I've learned how to open with either hand. It has a Tanto-style tip, and I'm fully confident that I could punch it through the sheet metal of a motor vehicle, and of course it would shatter the side windows. I think if someone who didn't have a firearm were to attack me after I pulled out this knife, they'd be committing suicide. Also, if they did have a firearm, and we were very close (like within arms length), he'd be in great danger, too. Well, both of us, really.
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Old 08-22-04, 05:11 PM
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The local news reported an attempted car-jacking last night. The driver was an off duty police officer, and he was approached by 4 guys at a stop light. Somehow, they got him out of his truck and started beating up on him. After he pulled his pistol and fired 2 shots, they took off. He suffered minor injuries and his truck was not stolen. The whole thing was witnessed by a 7-11 clerk. It doesn't look like the off duty COP is going to get into any trouble (good for him).

I guess that's a story you can use to advocate firearms for self defense. Still, I wonder how that would've turned out if the attackers were also armed, or if the driver wasn't an off duty police officer.

After all my talk of guns being murder tools, I'm not totally against obtaining one for myself. I'd just want to be sure and recieve proper training and learn the law first.

And, I'd never carry one on my bike. That's too dangerous IMO.


-Matt C.-
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