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What do we need to do to get the Law Enforcement to do something?

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What do we need to do to get the Law Enforcement to do something?

Old 10-27-09, 05:15 AM
  #1  
dguest
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What do we need to do to get the Law Enforcement to do something?

I will start this by stating I am a law enforcement officer in this same state. The link I have attached is to a story about a cyclist that was killed this past week end by a hit and run driver. Not only did this driver leave the scene but appearantly crossed the center line and struck the cyclist head on. The news is reporting that they have found the vehicle involved but the Highway patrol has not decided if charges will be coming.

https://www.myfox8.com/wghp-summerfie...,4738217.story
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Old 10-27-09, 05:41 AM
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Horrible tragedy. I hope they bring charges when they get all the facts on who was driving. I've ridden with David on a couple of occasions.

My prayers go out to his family.
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Old 10-27-09, 05:54 AM
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We had a similar case here several years ago when a driver drifted onto the shoulder and killed two German tourists. They'd ridden across the country from New Jersey to Nevada before some dimbulb driver putting cream in his coffee whacked them. I don't remember the specific punishment, but it was really a token, just a small fine and some public service time. The justification was that "it was an accident," with elements of "He has to live with what he did." He's long since done his time and moved on, but the victims are still dead.
I've thought about this and similar incidents a lot, and I really believe the problem is too deep-rooted in our society to fix. In California a year or so ago, a sheriff's deputy killed two cyclists when he fell asleep and ran over them in his patrol car. He was charged with a misdemeanor and got four months house arrest (!) and 20 weeks of community service. Again: "It was an accident. He didn't mean to do it." Not much comfort to the families.
For some reason, maybe because we're so wrapped up in cars (me, too--I drive more than I cycle), we seem to regard them as extensions of our homes--what we do in them is really sort of our own business. You really have to screw up before you get into serious trouble. There's nothing a single cyclist can do, and the few times I've seen organized efforts to change things, the protesters are painted as cranks or hippies or Luddites or some damn thing, outside the mainstream of society.
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Old 10-27-09, 05:57 AM
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Please check the link. It took me to a blank page. Thanks.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by doctor j View Post
Please check the link. It took me to a blank page. Thanks.
me to.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:27 AM
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This blows my mind, they aren't going to be filing charges on this person. Somebody should be going to prison. WTF

merlinextraligh says i'm wrong in making this statement, so from now on I will get with you before i post anything on this site.

Last edited by Taintkick; 10-27-09 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:31 AM
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This link worked for me.

I suspect (and hope) that the cops are working to build the case before making an arrest. Even if the cyclist was at fault, leaving the scene is a crime (and leaving the scene of an accident with a death is a feflony, at least in Florida).
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Old 10-27-09, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Taintkick View Post
This blows my mind, they aren't going to be filing charges on this person. Somebody should be going to prision. WTF
Reading comprehension folks. "The highway patrol said charges against the driver were not expected to be filed Monday."

This is different than, "The highway patrol said Monday, that charges against the driver were not expected to be filed."

Syntax here is key.

And the way this usually works is the Police complete their investigation, then refer the investigation to the Prosecutor's office, and then the Prosecutor decides whether to press charges, either by way of an information, or presenting it to the Grand Jury.

In all likelyhood this is not over. However, people get worked up, because these things take time, and they often don't hear the follow up.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:36 AM
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We, as a society, need to eliminate the whole "accident" mentality, which is paired with the absurd concept that driving a lethal weapon is some form of Constitutionally enshrined right.

Driving is not (or should not be) a right. Death or injury due to negligence, incompetence, or willful act is not an "accident"...at best it's a "mishap", but there is fault somewhere.

If I do anything of the sort in my jet, I'm going to jail for it for a long, long time. Every mishap is thoroughly investigated, and the only thing that I can be excused for is mechanical failure; and even then if there is a mechanical failure that I should have been able to properly handle but failed to do so, I get to be at fault in that case as well.

Similar standards of responsibility should be applied to drivers. If drivers cannot fulfill those responsibilities, either through inability or apathy, then they shouldn't be driving. I personally think only 50% of the population actually possesses the necessary skills and mentality to operate a motor vehicle in a socially responsible manner.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
If I do anything of the sort in my jet, I'm going to jail for it for a long, long time. Every mishap is thoroughly investigated, and the only thing that I can be excused for is mechanical failure; and even then if there is a mechanical failure that I should have been able to properly handle but failed to do so, I get to be at fault in that case as well.

.
Bull****. Give me one example of where a pilot has done jail time for something involving simple negligence.
Say for example, you dial in an inappropriate amount of flap on a landing, and the hard landing injures a passenger, should you be incarcerated?


Hit and Run, you deserve to go to jail. But it is way over the top to want to start incarcerating people for simple negligence.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:41 AM
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Kill a person, go to jail. Manslaughter, at a minimum.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:42 AM
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Read the whole ****ing story before being a dick.

Records from the North Carolina Department of Transportation show that, from 1997 to 2007, bicycle crashes killed 268 people in the state. In July, a car hit and killed a 14-year-old Mark Zanzarella as he rode his bike along Highway 311 in Clemmons. The driver did not face charges
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Old 10-27-09, 06:55 AM
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I would sure like to hear the outcome of this. It seems that they can say they didn't see you and are off the hook. I had a few pickup trucks come toward me and pull away at the last minute. They know you are helpless and take advantage of. Everywhere USA.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:01 AM
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The solution is to complain and protest about such inaction whenever it happens, or doesn't happen as the case may be. Look at the difference in state laws that MADD has made over the last thirty years. When I was policing I arrested a guy for his ninth DUI. By the time my case came to trial, he had been arrested four more times for the same charge. Alabama at the time had a DUI law that had a loophole big enough to almost literally drive a car through. Because of MADD and other organizations lobbying for change, that loophole has been closed. That type of, for lack of a better term, disrespect for the law can still happen today, but it isn't nearly as common or likely. Bicycle advocacy will work, but only if we actually get out and advocate.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Taintkick View Post
This blows my mind, they aren't going to be filing charges on this person. Somebody should be going to prision. WTF
Originally Posted by Taintkick View Post
Read the whole ****ing story before being a dick.

Records from the North Carolina Department of Transportation show that, from 1997 to 2007, bicycle crashes killed 268 people in the state. In July, a car hit and killed a 14-year-old Mark Zanzarella as he rode his bike along Highway 311 in Clemmons. The driver did not face charges
I was specifically responding to your assertion that they aren't filing charges on the person in this incident, which is incorrect.

It's clear that the issue of charges in the incident at hand is still to be resolved.

You're just trying to backfill now.

And people need to understand the process before they get up in arms, over an issue that hasn't yet been decided.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:10 AM
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I find it hard to believe that the NC HP are not filing charges. I work with them on anything outside the city limits when it comes to wrecks and such and they are usually good about following through. Also, op correct me if I'm wrong, but if there's more than $1k in damages doesn't this have to have a police report filed of some kind?
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Old 10-27-09, 07:16 AM
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Your right i'm just guessing, if they didn't press charges after a 14 yr old got killed why would they press charges on this guy.


Edit: Your right. They didn't press charges b/c they never found out who hit him.

Last edited by Taintkick; 10-27-09 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:17 AM
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Here's the correct link.
https://www.myfox8.com/wghp-summerfie...,4738217.story
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Old 10-27-09, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by K&K_Dad View Post
I find it hard to believe that the NC HP are not filing charges. I work with them on anything outside the city limits when it comes to wrecks and such and they are usually good about following through. Also, op correct me if I'm wrong, but if there's more than $1k in damages doesn't this have to have a police report filed of some kind?
They are cleary going to file a report. In fact, there will likely be two reports. A normal accident report, and also a report of the criminal investigation.

The police had the suspect's home cordoned off with crime scene tape while they looked fo evidience to link his SUV to the accident. They are clearly conducting a criminal investigation.

And I repeat again, the typical process is to complete that investigation and refer it to the DA for the consideration as to what charges to pursue.

The article mearly says charges were not expected to be filed Monday

Patience folks.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:20 AM
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The woman that nearly killed me on July 5 going 55 mph got a traffic ticket. I am still not back to work. I will likely have back issues the rest of my life. I will get my foot surgically reconstructed on December 2. If the surgery goes well my recovery be substantially complete by September 2010. I have a 70 percent chance of being able to run again after the surgery. The financial cost to me and my insurance companies is very substantial. I have hired the best personal injury law firm in Chicago and I am seeking justice.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:23 AM
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Hi,
I'm moving this to Advocacy & Safety. Thanks.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Taintkick View Post
Your right i'm just guessing, if they didn't press charges after a 14 yr old got killed why would they press charges on this guy.
Because this was a hit and run, which is a crime in its own right.

And from that article, you have zero information regarding whether the other fatality involved any criminal misconduct, or whether the driver in the other incidient was even negligent, much less guilty of criminal misconduct.


I'm all for prosecuting driver's who kill cyclists as the result of criminal negligence. And certainly, if proven, and you can link the suspect to the crime, the guy here deserves to go to jail, and likely will.


However, it does no good for anyone to 1) get all worked up about things that haven't happened yet, and 2) to always jump to the conclusion that the Driver of the Car was at fault and should be thrown in jail.


Such kneejerk reactions just weaken credibility.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:28 AM
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Law enforcement officers undoubtedly want to do the right thing. Whether or not there is enough evidence is always the issue. If it can be conclusively established that the vehicle in question is the one that killed the cyclist, then the owner can be arrested. Even then, the question will arise of whether the owner was the driver at the time of the accident. So long after the incident, it will probably be impossible to establish whether or not the driver was drunk/drugged at the time of the accident. The eyewitness is the best hope of a conviction. There is no systemic "anti cyclist" bias in this case that I can see. The police are doing their best with the evidence that they have.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:40 AM
  #24  
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the follow up is usually weak even in cases of negligence causing death of a cyclist.

a group of stakeholders in ped and bike safety LAB, APBA should take some lessons from MADD's tactics and learn from their playbook.

I'd start the organization and call it BADD but i think it needs a better name.

did anyone catch the shocking statistic at the bottom of the article? Is that even correct? seems shockingly high, if its not,

Originally Posted by local NC news article
Records from the North Carolina Department of Transportation show that, from 1997 to 2007, bicycle crashes killed 268 people in the state
Steve Goodridge, your state with it's 'bicycle driving' institutes and lousy bikeways planning is doing something radically wrong!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Bekologist; 10-27-09 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 10-27-09, 07:46 AM
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This would require a lack of corruption at the judicial end and some actual care, thought, and attentiveness from the law enforcement side. Unfortunately, both ends of this equation are attached to a fairly corrupt system in place.

You should know as a cop, that you guys don't waste any time on stuff that the PD cannot make any money off of. It is far more profitable to just hand out stupid inspection, light speeding, and lack of documentation tickets than it is to spend time actually ticketing the people that deserve it. (Off duty drinking and driving officers, judges, and state politicians almost never face the same penalties as the rest of us.)
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